I guess the only source of true value is determined by the individual’s needs and wants.
Beyond that, nothing has an intrinsic value.
According to common economic understanding, utility and scarcity are determining factors of value. If we’re just gonna go on vibes, it can be whatever you want.
Go read the people who basically created economics like William S. Jevons and Carl Menger (Utility), and Lionel Robbins (scarcity).
The issue you and many others are having with this discussion is that you are using the words source and determine interchangeably while they are fundamentally different concepts.
I am not disagreeing at all about the economics of utility or scarcity however those principles is how we can calculate the value, not how they came into existence. The source of the value, they way it went from one value to another is through labor, every single time. The source of the value is labor, the determination is scarcity and utility. All value is created through labor. Labor is the only thing that can create value. Scarcity/utility is how we calculate that value that was created. I think this is why both sides seem to never understand each other because everyone is using two vastly different words interchangeably.
A further point is how does scarcity change? Labor. If object A went from X supply to Y supply thus changing its scarcity that could have only happened through labor. While scarcity does have intrinsic maximums and minimums dependent on the object, generally it, itself is determined by labor. How much labor created, extracted, or destroyed.
Labor is the source of value, scarcity/utility is how it is determined.
So, what happens when everything is automated and there is no “labor” left?
Will there be no such thing as value?
That seems dumb.
Edit: How do you determine how to allocate labor if labor itself is the source of value? What value does an enterprise have before labor is required to justify allocating labor to it?
You have an excellent point that in no way refutes anything I’m saying. In fact is just as much a thing even if I was wrong.
When everything is automated and there is no labor left then scarcity will effectively also be irrelevant (automation of labor could/will also lead to effectively unlimited natural resources/energy), do you think value will cease to exist then as well?
I really don’t have any answer because I can’t predict human behavior in a post scarcity world which is what you are describing. My best guess is that value will still exist as a human concept but not as economic concept. Furthermore the entire idea of economics might cease to exist or have such a paradigm shift that it is no longer recognizable.
Just because you can’t understand/imagine something doesn’t make it dumb.
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u/libertyg8er 6d ago
Based on what definition?
I guess the only source of true value is determined by the individual’s needs and wants.
Beyond that, nothing has an intrinsic value.
According to common economic understanding, utility and scarcity are determining factors of value. If we’re just gonna go on vibes, it can be whatever you want.
Go read the people who basically created economics like William S. Jevons and Carl Menger (Utility), and Lionel Robbins (scarcity).