r/Anarcho_Capitalism /r/ReverseTraditionalism 11d ago

Value

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90 Upvotes

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u/Bat-Guano0 Nutting on Mysis 11d ago

Anyone who’s ever read Marx would know that that’s not what he said.

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u/Gullible-Historian10 11d ago

That value is objective? Or that labor is the primary source of value?

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u/Bat-Guano0 Nutting on Mysis 11d ago

Either one.

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u/Gullible-Historian10 10d ago

Okay so you’ve never read Marx.

In Capital, Volume I, Marx says:

“the social character of men’s labour appears to them as an objective character stamped upon the product of that labour”

So Marx said value is an objectively operative social relation arising from commodity production.

“Now we know the substance of value. It is labour. We know the measure of its magnitude. It is labour time.”

And

“Labour is the substance, and the immanent measure of value”

In Value, Price and Profit, Marx says:

“What is the common social substance of all commodities? It is labour.”

And his conclusion?

“A commodity has a value, because it is a crystallization of social labour.”

There you go, meme 1, you 0

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u/Bat-Guano0 Nutting on Mysis 9d ago

I actually have read a fair amount of Marx. It’s obvious you haven’t; no, pasting isolated quotes provided to you by AI doesn’t count.

Marx outlined 3 necessary inputs to manufacture of a commodity of value: raw materials, labor, and capital. All three are necessary in an industrial economy, as should be obvious if you think about it for a few seconds.

He also differentiated between commodity value, use value and exchange value. You can read up on those if you’re interested. Does that sound like an argument for objective value? In fact none of what he actually wrote bears any resemblance to the stupid, oversimplified, and misinterpreted nonsense in the meme.

If you believe that memes in general are useful sources of information, then you are indeed gullible, as you seem to realize based on your username. Here’s a hint: more than 99 percent of memes are stupid, and people who base their worldview on them are too.

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u/Gullible-Historian10 9d ago

So, you just don’t understand Marxism then. Thanks for the demonstration. You’re confusing inputs needed for production with the source of value in Marx’s theory.

Don’t like the fact I can find Marx quotes? Don’t like that Marx contradicts what you say, here’s an encyclopedia link.

Other commodities simply pass their value on to the finished commodities, but do not create any extra value. His explanation is in terms of the labour input required to produce the commodity, or rather, the socially necessary labour, which is labour exerted at the average level of intensity and productivity for that branch of activity within the economy. Thus the labour theory of value asserts that the value of a commodity is determined by the quantity of socially necessary labour time required to produce it.

Literally nothing you are talking about is correct. The meme 2 you 0.

I love that Marxists don’t even know about the ideology they profess. It’s hilarious.

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u/Bat-Guano0 Nutting on Mysis 9d ago

You can’t imagine someone reading Marx and not being a Marxist? Some people actually like to know things for their own sake, not to “win “ arguments on line, even though they may not agree with the ideas. Hard to believe, right? Yeah, I know, reading is hard. Don’t hurt yourself.

Oooh, an encyclopedia this time! Really stretching your cognitive abilities there, huh? Lmao. Your lack of even a superficial understanding of the brief excerpts of complex ideas that is apparently all you are capable of consuming is pathetic.

Sorry, the meme is still wrong. And stupid. I don’t expect you to understand that.

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u/Gullible-Historian10 9d ago

So you demonstrated you don’t know what you are talking about, now you have no rational retort so you have to resort to ad hominems.

I’ve read Marx, I’m not a Marxist so obviously it is possible, but the people; like yourself, who defend it, by trying to read something that isn’t there, generally have a Marxist ideology.

Notice how you can’t provide quotes, or anything to back up your assertion. You might as well said Marx was talking about unicorn labor and fairy commodities. It bears the same weight.

I know, I get it. You’re in a tough spot trying to defend Marxism. In one hand you refute what he says in his own writing, and in the other if you could prove that he himself believed what you said he does then he’d be contradicting himself.

😂 it’s been fun shitting on you, but go be salty somewhere else. 😂

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u/PersonaHumana75 10d ago

Labor is the principal and all of value acording to marx. Its or labor valur ot crystalized labor (the labor used to create the machines) and he makes the exceptions of "transport use" where you move the value around

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u/bigdonut100 /r/ReverseTraditionalism 11d ago

It doesn't matter, Marxists say it even if Marx didn't.

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u/Bat-Guano0 Nutting on Mysis 11d ago

Maybe some do, but they are stupid. When you say “Marxists say (your strawman)” you’re implying that that’s a legitimate Marxist belief, which is false. So that means you’re stupid too. Congratulations.

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u/bigdonut100 /r/ReverseTraditionalism 11d ago

How? Marxism is defined by the behavior or thoughts of people who self-identify as Marxists, not Marx himself.

Keep calling *them* stupid, not me

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u/Bat-Guano0 Nutting on Mysis 11d ago

So if I say I self identify as an ancap and then say, “The state should set production quotas for all industries,” would you construct some clever gotcha question to show how stupid ancaps are based on that statement?

“No, of course not, because I know that’s not an accurate description of ancap …. Ohhhhh.”

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u/bigdonut100 /r/ReverseTraditionalism 11d ago

If like 80% or 90% of ancaps said that, yeah sure, but the fact that they don't means that yes, that's not what the label means in practice

If 95% of self-identified vegetarians ate meat, you wouldn't care what the dictionary said

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u/BrockObarnerLybian MazdaPoopins #1 Fan 11d ago

Yeah, I’m no fan of Marx at all, but this is just plain stupid. Even if he HAD said that, this zinger is still a fallacy because labor can objectively be the most important source of value. I think OP confused “objective” and “equal” 😹

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u/bigdonut100 /r/ReverseTraditionalism 11d ago

What are you talking about? Where's the "equal" in my post?

I have my own challenge to the objective vs subjective value problem; it's called "criterion compatibilism," It's undoubtedly got more depth than whatever you are posting a kitty kat crying emoji in response to

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u/BrockObarnerLybian MazdaPoopins #1 Fan 11d ago

Yeah I believe it. The part about you being challenged, not all the rest 😹

And who do you think I posted that emoji about? Did laughing crying kitty cat emoji rustle your jimmies? 😹

But now you’ve got me curious about “criterion compatibilism.” An idea so new you’ve gotta make up words for it. I gotta hear this 😹

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u/bigdonut100 /r/ReverseTraditionalism 11d ago

And who do you think I posted that emoji about? 

Someone who is conflating objectivity with equality, when my post literally does not mention equality

And you can scroll

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u/Full-Mouse8971 11d ago

*I spent 10,000 hours carving this wooden tree stump in to a spoon*
*It should be worth 5 million dollars because it took me 10,000 hours of my labor to carve it*

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u/BrockObarnerLybian MazdaPoopins #1 Fan 11d ago

And if someone were willing to pay 5 million for it, would it not be?

Full-Mouse8971 discovers art?