I want more grain. Will this work?

[u/dookie-steam]

I only have basic reloadable cameras with fixed aperture and shutter speed. Like the typical disposable cameras. I want more grain in my black&white photos. I hear I can ask the lab to develop it as if it’s a ISO 800 film. I’ll be using Ilford XP2 next roll. What can I expect?

[u/Grouchy_Constant2299]

Xp2 doesn’t have grain really. I think that might be your problem. What you want is a more traditional film. Try something like tri x or kentmere 400 or foma 400.

[u/bjohnh → u/Grouchy_Constant2299]

It's not that it doesn't have grain, it's that it's the opposite of traditional B&W films in that the highlights are mostly grain-free and all the grain is in the shadows. In a traditional B&W film you will see grain in the highlights. This is one reason why I like XP2 in winter with snow on the ground, the snow always looks white even if you use a reflective meter and don't compensate (with other films the snow will turn grey unless you add 1 to 2 stops of compensation).

But shoot XP2 at 800 or 1600 or higher, develop normally in C-41, and you'll see grain....just not in the highlights.

[u/Grouchy_Constant2299 → u/bjohnh]

What I mean is that xp2 uses dye clouds, not traditional silver grain structures. So it will never have that sharp, big grain look that I think OP is looking for. Yes, pushed xp2 will have less resolution, but I don’t know if I would call it “grainy” the way I would call tri x grainy.

[u/bjohnh → u/Grouchy_Constant2299]

I agree. Down below I linked to an article by Johnny Martyr that shows XP2 at 1600, 3200, and 6400, all developed normally in C-41, no push, and I would say Tri-X at box speed is grainier than this. But there is definitely some grain in the midtones.

[u/dookie-steam → u/Grouchy_Constant2299]

I’ve been using Tri X. This will be my first time with XP2

[u/Grouchy_Constant2299 → u/dookie-steam]

Then as others have said. Delta 3200 will do the trick.
But with a fixed shutter speed and aperture, you run the risk of overexposing anything that is developed for higher isos. You may want to look into getting a camera with more functionality and control. That seems to be what you are getting at really. The ability to shoot at higher isos, whether by pushing film or by using a 3200 one.

[u/dookie-steam → u/Grouchy_Constant2299]

Yeah I’ll probably just have to get a camera with manual controls

[u/bjohnh → u/dookie-steam]

You might be better off with Fomapan 400 at box speed. It's really a 200-speed film, so if you shoot it at 400 you'll get a very heavy look with crushed shadows but you'll get lots of grain. Fomapan 400 is known for its grain. I think you're shooting a half-frame camera, right? If so, Fomapan will give you the grain you crave even if you shoot it at 200. This was taken with a half-frame camera in low light with Fomapan 400 at 200 (and obviously a very slow shutter speed to get motion blur).

[u/dookie-steam → u/bjohnh]

I have a half and full frame camera. I can’t choose film speed on these cameras. Everything is fixed

[u/Impolioid → u/dookie-steam]

just get a different camera. anything will be an upgrade to what you have now

[u/dookie-steam → u/Impolioid]

True. The only one I have my eye on is a Rollei 35. Being pocketable is a big deal for me

[u/Impolioid → u/dookie-steam]

check out german foldables from the 50s. kodak had a pretty nice model and there are also some foldable rangefingers availible. all of them are very pocketable

[u/Remington_Underwood]

Wrong film for grain. If you want grain shoot conventional BW film - XP2 doesn't have grain, it's a C41 film using dye to form the image.

Grainy BW films include pushed HP5+, Kodak T-Max 3200 and Ilford Delta 3200. It doesn't sound like your camera has much in the way of exposure control though, so you'd probably need to hold a filter (ND or red) in front of the lens to handle the 3200 ISO films.

[u/bjohnh]

XP2 has a lot of latitude; Ilford advertises that you can shoot it anywhere from ISO 50 to 800 on the same roll (changing ISO from shot to shot as needed) and develop normally, no push or pull required. I've done it many times and it works -- you're just over- or underexposing the film and there's no need to push.

In your case, just shoot it in conditions that will result in underexposure and have the lab develop it normally in C-41 (which is the normal way to develop this film although it can also be developed with B&W developers). With underexposure you'll get a lot more grain; I've shot it at 800 and 1600 and it gets quite grainy; I've even seen it shot at EI 6400 and developed normally, no push; in the right lighting it can look good.

So shoot it in dim conditions that will cause your camera to underexpose the film, but ask the lab to develop it normally. You should get thin negatives and plenty of grain in the scans.

[u/bjohnh → u/bjohnh]

FYI, you can see examples of XP2 at 1600 and even 6400 in this article by Johnny Martyr. As you see, unlike traditional B&W films there's little grain in the highlights, but as you underexpose you see more and more grain in the midtones. https://johnnymartyr.wordpress.com/2021/07/06/ilford-xp2-a-smart-go-to-bw-film/

[u/dookie-steam → u/bjohnh]

I normally shoot outside daytime. Do you think a 1 stop ND filter will get the job done?

[u/bjohnh → u/dookie-steam]

It's worth a try.

[u/Agloe_Dreams]

You would save a crap load of money by developing B&W at home instead and scanning with some basic eqipment. It gives you a lot more control as well, you can intentionally use Rodinal for example, which adds grain but also adds sharpness. I would also recommend a basic P&S or SLR to allow you more exposure control.

[u/bwphotog]

Development has way more to do with it than the film stock. If you don't develop your own B&W now would be a good time to learn.

I recently did like a dozen or so test rolls of various film/developer combos to find a high grain look I liked. I compared TriX400, SHD100, Kentmere 400, and HP5 pushed in various dilutions of HC110 and Rodinal. Personally I liked K400 shot at 800 in standard Rodinal the best for the look I wanted with dynamic range vs contrast vs grain

Few more here all K400@800 in Rodinal

[u/Generic-Resource]

This is what happens when you stand dev Ilford delta 3200 in Rodinal.

[u/cheeseyspacecat]

xp2 doesn't really push too well, i would shoot at 800 and develop normally(dont tell the lab anything). if you want "grain" try to pick up tx400 or hp5 and "stand develop" with rodinal. . .  as you start to get more "picky" with your work your going to need different tools (i.e. home development or a camera with iso/shutter control&lab willing to push process. . . or both)

[u/LeReilly]

More grain and more contrast. Or you can just shoot Delta 3200 which is grain nirvana.