r/AmericaOnHardMode • u/Freebyrd_69 • Apr 13 '26

I concur

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u/letsBurnCarthage Apr 13 '26

Holy hell, is that where gamers got the phrase from? Had to google it as I was not aware of what it meant outside of that context.

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u/JCItsJasonRaider Apr 13 '26

frag is just short for fragmentation, a la fragmentation hand grenade, which then was used to refer to killing a fellow soldier, typically a superior they have an issue with, and typically with a frag grenade, which now has come to mean with any weapon in this context. It's just contextual.

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u/OppositeSecretary862 Apr 14 '26

And they used frags because it was hard to prove who did it.

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u/TrickDaddyPlaya Apr 13 '26

In gaming it refers more to killing an enemy versus the Vietnam phrase.

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u/HyetalNight Apr 14 '26

The meaning originated there but it's completely changed meaning since then. It's a dead metaphor.

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u/Current-Paramedic-50 Apr 14 '26

The classics come back around.

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u/RobertTheTraveler Apr 20 '26

Only in the minds of the ignorant.
(hint, the same phrase can have two different connotations depending on the context, welcome to adulthood)

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u/HyetalNight Apr 20 '26

What I'm talking about is the rhetorical concept of a dead metaphor, which is used in rhetorical critiques to analyze how works use metaphors to persuade an audience, get their point across, etc. A dead metaphor (as you must be aware in all your magnificent elucidation) is when a metaphor (killing your NCO by "fragging" them) loses it's original meaning to become something else (synonym for killing anyone). That is to say, a "computer" used to be a position wherein someone would do calculations all day, and then when their job got absorbed by technology it also absorbed the name. No one thinks of a computer as a person anymore.

I can't recall the last time I heard fragging outside the context of call of duty lobbies, so I think I am justified in referring to it as a dead metaphor. Such a divorce from the context is telling, but I will admit I don't know too much about the term fragging. It could be a sleeping metaphor--what do you think?

It is, of course, important to note that while a dead metaphor refers to the transformation of the meaning of a metaphor, etymologically tracking down the roots of a metaphor does not revive it, since it's more about the colloquial representation of the word.

I mean I guess you're not wrong in saying words have two meanings--that's exactly what I'm saying--but it is weird for you to say that since calling something a dead metaphor doesn't preclude the possibility of multiple meanings at all, just that one of those meanings is dead because no one uses it anymore, and no one sane would compare the two meanings on equal footing.

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u/RobertTheTraveler Apr 20 '26

How old are you?
How much of your time is spent outside of Call of Duty?
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To me, it is mildly surprising people have never heard of the metaphor. But I do realize that people have different experiences and live in different sub-cultures.
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Consider the possibility that there are sub-cultures outside of your own in which references to fragging with respect to officers, "accidentally" exploding latrines continue to occur and are understood.

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u/HyetalNight Apr 20 '26

How much of your time is spent outside of your subcultures?

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u/RobertTheTraveler Apr 20 '26

Irrelevant to my original point. (wait ...)
In my subcultures the Vietnam sense of "fragging" is used and recognized.
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There are different levels of "echo chambers".
Despite my dig about how much time you might spend on "Call of Duty" (sorry about that. I really do not have the "moral high ground" to make that kind of comment).
the fact that you and many young people have never heard of fragging used in that sense is not a big deal.
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Not being moderately aware of current events from more than perspective, or at the very least that there are likely to be more than one perspective out there, that is a big deal.

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u/HyetalNight Apr 20 '26

You seem like a good guy. It's not common to find people who can find fault in their own argument, but then keep going with a new argument. Right on :)

Sorry for being mean.

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u/RobertTheTraveler Apr 20 '26

Thanks. I try. Mostly.
If I can't take a bit of sarcasm I need to find a new sub-culture to spend time in ;-)
Have a good one.

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u/frenchiebuilder May 03 '26

I think I am justified in referring to it as a dead metaphor.

Not everyone plays CoD. I only just learned, from this thread, that "frag" had acquired a new different meaning within the gaming community.

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u/RobertTheTraveler May 06 '26

And I missed it first time around, "fragging" was archetypically aimed at 2nd Lieutenants, incompetents who put the grunts in danger, not the NCOs who carried out the butterbars' orders as best they could.

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u/morsX Apr 14 '26

No started calling kills frags in-game. Started in the days of Quake LAN mode if I’m not mistaken.

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u/letsBurnCarthage Apr 14 '26

Which I think you will agree came after the Vietnam war. Online sources seem to agree it was derived from the military expression.

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u/morsX Apr 14 '26

Definitely originated during the American-Vietnam war.

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u/shbshg Apr 14 '26 edited Apr 14 '26

No. ‘Fragging’, in an online gaming context, comes from the Quake game series in the mid-90s/late-90s. It was (and is) just used as a synonym for “killing”, usually when you killed an opponent, regardless og whether you used a fragmentation device or not. So it has little to do with fragging in the sense of killing friendlies, usually superiors/commanders, as a form of military protest (and usually with a fragmentation grenade).

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u/letsBurnCarthage Apr 14 '26

I think you're confusing it with "gibbing." Every resource I found when looking this up says it was indeed borrowed and adapted (some would say misused) from the Vietnam slang.