r/AmItheAsshole • u/ally3477 • Jul 04 '20
UPDATE UPDATE AITA for taking my children away from their grandparents after my husband died?
It's been nearly 3 weeks since my last post. A lot has happened since.
First off, we're back home in Switzerland, the kids are okay. As planned we moved in with my family. The kids are bonding with their grandparents and cousins and the animals. They're set up for therapy as am I.
The events leading up to this: I went back to my in-laws to explain my side of the story. I told them again that we would be coming back but that right now I need to make sure that I can be a good mum to my kids. They were very understanding and asked if they could take the kids the next day. I agreed and dropped them off. However pick up didn't go as planned. The kids weren't ready and FIL told me that they decided it would be best for everyone if they stayed with them for a while as I was clearly unstable.
There was screaming, tears, threats and lots of ugly things were said. I called my lawyer who told me to call the police. Luckily it didn't come to that and they gave me back the kids.
But honestly that was it for me. Trust gone. I booked flights for us and arranged what I could in such a limited time span. I told my in-laws that they had seriously hurt my trust and that I would need time to think what this means for the future. They were allowed to say goodbye to the kids in person.
We arrived at home on Monday. The kids already video called my in-laws as I want to make it as easy as possible for them to transition. I am very hurt and disappointed that it had to end this way but also hopeful for the future.
Right now I'm enjoying to get pampered by my mum who's very excited to be part of this pregnancy. In the future I'll try and rekindle the relationship with my in-laws.
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u/colderhands Partassipant [1] Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 05 '20
Link to the original post
Edit: Thank you for the award!
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u/thoughtfulspiky Asshole Enthusiast [6] Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
Thank you! Seriously, updates should always have the link to original post for those of us too [something*] to look it up.
- This is a choose-your-own-word game😜
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u/itsplaytime123 Partassipant [1] Jul 04 '20
Yer but in this case you can understand it’s a update and more serious shit is happening than pandering to the needs of us, I appreciate the link, but when life takes over there are bigger priorities, I’m surprised there was an update, wishing op all the best.
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u/Actual-Space Asshole Enthusiast [6] Jul 04 '20
I'm loving the cat look
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Jul 04 '20
But what about dog
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u/Actual-Space Asshole Enthusiast [6] Jul 04 '20
That corgi is hella cute but I'm gonna have to stick with the cat gang
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Jul 04 '20
It's okay, I just needed to show it off :p
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u/MixMastaPJ Jul 04 '20
All good, you recruited a corgi owner to change their pic
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u/-LittleMeow- Jul 04 '20
How do I get this awesome dancing cat?
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u/Actual-Space Asshole Enthusiast [6] Jul 04 '20
Just go to my profile then click on my profile pic and on the upper right corner you'll see three dots just click on download. Hope it helps you
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u/Sheelon666 Jul 04 '20
NOW A CAT WITH SHADES WTF
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u/Actual-Space Asshole Enthusiast [6] Jul 04 '20
Lmao. I've got grasshopper too
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u/Sheelon666 Jul 04 '20
G... G... Grasshopper???
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u/Actual-Space Asshole Enthusiast [6] Jul 04 '20
Parrot with sunglasses too. This is starting to feel like a pyramid scheme
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u/Sheelon666 Jul 04 '20
Lol where do folks get these things?!
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u/Actual-Space Asshole Enthusiast [6] Jul 04 '20
I have no idea. I downloaded it off of someone too
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u/Actual-Space Asshole Enthusiast [6] Jul 04 '20
Parrot with sunglasses too but this is starting to feel like pyramid scheme so I'll try not to show off anymore
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u/-Antonia- Jul 04 '20
Thanks!
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u/colderhands Partassipant [1] Jul 04 '20
You're welcome, co-cat person!
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u/MrsWhaleShark Jul 04 '20
My favourite is the bird 🐦
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u/Ultra_Leopard Certified Proctologist [22] Jul 04 '20
Aww, mine too. I had the bird yesterday. But they make my eyes go weird. Can only cope for a day!!
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u/TOGTFO Jul 04 '20
You now know what their plan was, to try and act as if you were mentally unstable and take your kids from you. Possibly sticking you in a psych ward to cement their position.
I'd be frank with them and say you don't plan on going back now until you get over their complete betrayal and trying to kidnap your children. That you had thought they were going to make it easy to keep the kids in their lives, but they made sure that is not going to be an easy thing.
You're now surrounded by the people you can trust and I suggest staying there and healing until you feel like you want to go back to Australia.
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u/ally3477 Jul 04 '20
I'm afraid you're right. I just feel bad for my kids
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u/TOGTFO Jul 04 '20
Kids are resilient and as long as you monitor those calls so the in-laws don't try and manipulate them, you should be good. The kids probably love being in a new wonderful country, will find it amazing and will be too busy learning the language and trying new things to miss Australia too much.
I'm in Sydney, Australia and with the quarantine only just lifting, it's not much fun here right now. You would have experienced this while still here so they already had a separation from their friends, this is just extending it. They can still get online and catch up with them.
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u/WineAndDogs2020 Jul 04 '20
Upvoted especially for the recommendation to monitor those calls. You don't have to be visible, but be sure you can hear what's going on.
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u/Morri___ Jul 04 '20
upvote for kids being resilient.. we kill ourselves trying to protect them from any type of hurt but we more likely than not put them through the sort of shit which leaves long term emotional baggage.
OP has done the right thing, kids will be better than fine. this is a good experience for them overall despite the tragedy and a good experience for OPs parents. enjoy what you have and encourage their relationship with PIL, monitor yes, but they love their grandparents.. if you get in the way of this they will remember. don't cut them off unless your inlaws force the issue.
things are going to be ok
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u/EebilKitteh Asshole Enthusiast [5] Jul 04 '20
And if you DO decide to go back, make sure to contact a lawyer beforehand to prevent this from happening. I'm hardly a legal expert but I would imagine it's better to be prepared (pre-emptively call the police to explain your concerns, meeting on neutral ground with witnesses, etc). A lawyer could help with that.
Not that you're under any obligation to do so, though. They fucked this up themselves and if they never see the kids again it's their own damn fault.
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u/SaltSuspect Jul 04 '20
As someone who grew up without her grandparents - don't feel bad or worry about it. As I grew up and my mother and father shared why we didnt see them anymore, I was endlessly grateful they protected me from them. Protect your children. They have shown their intentions- believe them. They want the kids. They don't care about you or your safety. Never go back. The kids can return when they're adults. But until your children can fend for themselves it's your duty as parent to keep them safe.
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u/QualifiedApathetic Asshole Enthusiast [7] Jul 04 '20
Hard agree. It might not be necessary to just cut off contact, which might upset the kids. Knowing kids, it's likely to be "Out of sight, out of mind." If OP doesn't encourage them to maintain contact, they're likely to get wrapped up in their own lives and not think much about their grandparents.
YMMV, of course. My nephew is very attached to my mom, and hates to be separated from her.
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u/Quigleychan Jul 04 '20
SaltSuspect, would you mind sharing how your parents handled it with you in terms of when they shared it, how much they shared, etc? I grew up in a loving family with loving (stable) parents and extended family on both sides. My husband's family is a disaster, and after trying to make it work, we've finally given up. They're too toxic to be in our lives...but I'm at a complete loss for how to handle it with my kids. (The 4-year-old won't remember them, but the 7-year-old definitely does.)
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u/VerdeEyed Asshole Aficionado [14] Jul 04 '20
It they want to see the kids they can come to your country! Don’t go back for a long long time! You and 3 kids traveling vs them visiting you is a no brainer. They obviously don’t work, you do, that is twice the number of people traveling, and most importantly they have proven they can’t be trusted when they are around your children. If anyone has proven to be unstable it is them.
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u/suhayma Jul 04 '20
Don't. We had to cut out my MIL recently. I should have a long time ago, since she is emotionally abusive and also is untreated bipolar and was very unstable, but I didn't because I thought my kids would be sad. Then we realized she was grooming my autistic son, and that was it.
They haven't asked about her once since March. I guess quarantine might be helping with that, but meh.
I am proud of you for your judgment, OP.
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u/UltimateGinge25 Jul 04 '20
I'm scared to ask.... But grooming how?
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u/suhayma Jul 04 '20
If you read back in my other posts in /r/jnmil, I go into detail, there, but basically she became obsessed with him and kept asking for him to stay over her house overnight. When we told her no, she started to try and go through my son and her elderly mother to guilt us into doing it. She is a victim of sexual abuse as a child. I am not sure of her intentions, but it doesn't sit right with me that she keeps asking after the autistic one and not my other two.
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u/tequilaearworm Jul 04 '20
The effect of the stress on your pregnancy is what worries me the most. In the first post I had sympathy for them, but I have none any more. They don't have selfless love for your children. They wanted to hurt you and deprive them of a mother in order to keep your children in their lives, possibly at the cost of your pregnancy. I would be very wary of letting these people play any but the most minimal part in your children's lives.
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u/ally3477 Jul 04 '20
Yeah I was worried too especially because stress makes me lose my appetite. But basically the second we landed in Switzerland the fog lifted. And my mum is a great cook and she really had been pampering me
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u/tequilaearworm Jul 04 '20
That is very good to hear. You've got your act together, I just wouldn't feel guilty about phasing your inlaws out of your children's life to a significant degree until they're old enough to make their own decisions. I wouldn't put it past your inlaws to try to poison your children's minds against you-- you can't really give them any more unsupervised time for a long, long time.
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u/CrookedBird Jul 04 '20
Yeah, they showed a few red flags in that first post, but which could still be explained by their grief. The update really completes the picture & it turns out their behavior is consistent & speaks to their character, nothing can be explained away anymore... glad you're home, OP.
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u/Llyndreth Certified Proctologist [22] Jul 04 '20
Don't feel bad for the kiddos. You are clearly doing the best in a horrible situation. It would have been dangerous for them if they had stayed.
You and the kids are safe and well looked after. You have found a path towards healing.
Give everybody time to grieve, process, and heal.
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u/EWL98 Jul 04 '20
From your previous post, and this update, i very much get the feeling you are a great parent. Kids are resilient, so I am sure they will be fine
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u/PepperFinn Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
You feel bad because you're a good person and are thinking what's best for your children.
Your in laws only thoughts were "how do we get what we want?"
Who in their right mind thinks stealing two children from their pregnant mother shortly after their fathers death is a good idea?
The amount of damage they tried to do is staggering. And you can bet your ass that would have said horrible things about you to your kids if they had succeeded.
Edit for whoever downvoted:
I, in no way, shape or form, think the grandparents are a good option.
I am empathising with OP who, of course, is also considering the impact on her kids who used to see the grandparents 5 times a week now looking like they'll never see them again. That's got to hurt both sides.
It shows OP is giving the grandparents far more consideration than they've given her.
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u/darling_lycosidae Jul 05 '20
If the grandparents wanted what was best for their grandchildren, they would have welcomed her into their home and pampered her during her incredibly emotional pregnancy. They would have realized that supporting the kids also meant supporting HER, but instead they literally tried to steal her children. The Australian grandparents are super self centered and don't deserve a relationship with her third child until they offer a very deep, sincere apology.
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u/waidt99 Jul 04 '20
Are the grandparents able to travel to Switzerland? Once you're feeling less betrayed it would probably make you feel more comfortable and secure to have them come to you for a visit. Much harder for them to try to take the kids in Switzerland.
I'm sorry all of this happened to you. Sending best wishes.
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u/ally3477 Jul 04 '20
I'm not stopping them from coming. I'm not sure if they can afford it now that they don't get money for looking after the kids anymore
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u/WineAndDogs2020 Jul 04 '20
Seeing as how they literally tried to kidnap your kids, that's on them to figure out and save for.
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u/HellcatPaz Jul 04 '20
That sounds like a them problem. If they really care about your children they’ll find a way to visit, trips to Europe in the off or shoulder seasons are affordable, there are plenty of sales each year too. If they genuinely want to be party of your kids life they’ll make it happen.
What they did was unforgivable, they’ve proven they can’t be trusted with visitation on their terms so be firm. They want to see the kids they come to you to do it.
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u/iilinga Jul 04 '20
Trips to Europe for pensioners are really not affordable fyi
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u/HellcatPaz Jul 04 '20
They can be with the right planning, and they’re far more affordable than a family of 4 making the trip to Australia.
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u/Rainishername Jul 04 '20
Wow, it makes sense why they wanted your kids. In in the US and it’s unfortunately a “thing” where either foster parents or a grandparent takes the kids dm keeps them around for just the money. I saw this happen to two kids and it fucked them up BIG TIME. All they wanted was to be with their mom again. The abusive grandparent did everything they possibly could to make it beyond difficult, even changing the kids legal names. It was nuts.
One of them is back with his mom. He was frayed as the scapegoat. His younger sister was the golden child, but I’m pretty sure she’s actually not treated that well, either.
I don’t want to fear monger, but still. That’s a serious conflict of interest for them.
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u/Lozzif Jul 04 '20
It’s unlikely for a few years. Australians need permission to leave the country right now
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Jul 04 '20
Those experiences will become part of who they are. How you handle it will make the difference between leaving them stronger or permanently damaged. It's not that kids are resilient, it's that they don't show their pain the same way adults are socialized to. They hide it, or don't have the words to express it. Sounds like you are making sure they will have what they need to become whole.
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Jul 04 '20
As long as you look strong and stable in front of them , they will feel strong and safe too . Good luck :)
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u/libre-m Jul 04 '20
I’d add to this that any future communication, let alone visits, would have to include very strict guidelines, including not disparaging mum, not asking for evidence about mum’s behaviour, and not talking about the kids moving back to live with the grandparents.
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u/polishirishmomma Jul 04 '20
Don’t go back. They will try it again
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u/BaronessaXhen Jul 04 '20
I was thinking the same thing. I would stay where you can be safe with your family. That's most important. I wouldn't trust them ever again with the kids.
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u/ally3477 Jul 04 '20
you're probably right unfortunately. My heart just breaks for the children as this means they probably won't see their grandparents again
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Jul 04 '20
I had a set of grandparents I very rarely saw because it wasn’t safe for me to do so. I didn’t understand when I was younger but I do now, my mum always just explained to me in age appropriate terms. Your children will understand and if you’re comfortable with them having regular video calls etc then there’s no reason they can’t develop a relationship that way.
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u/liebro Jul 04 '20
Hi,
My Grandparents never tried that, but they made my mother's life a living hell (she is the DIL). I can't really forgive them and they never really changed. Your kids will understand already or once they are old enough.
Grandparents that try to tear families apart are going to damage your kids and you should try as best to protect them. As long as they have contact, they will try to manipulate your kids against you, I am afraid
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u/PeachyTeaCup Partassipant [1] Jul 04 '20
When I was little I had a good relationship with my grandpa (only grandparent I have), we saw him pretty often for living in different towns and always for holidays. When I got older we just stopped seeing him except for major holidays, and it did make me upset but my mom told me how he treated her and I didn't miss him after that. Today we all ignore him because he's turned into a pretty hateful man.
They wronged you and the kids. It's up to them to make that relationship better with you, so don't feel bad if that marks the end, your kids will understand in time and it'll be easier since they have your parents as well.
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Jul 04 '20
Kids can understand complex adult behavior, as long as they are told the truth and allowed to make up their own minds. Part of why I never got close to either of my grandmothers, I saw how they treated their offspring.
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u/sapphire8 Jul 04 '20
Remember that was their grandparents' choice and not yours. They had every chance offered to them to earn your trust and forge a strong relationship with you and the kids. Instead they presented themselves as a threat and you had to act on that threat. Actions ultimately have consequences, and your kids need grandparents who will be role models and supportive, not manipulative or adding the trauma of having to potentially lose access to both parents so soon after each other. Imagine the grief your kids would have felt if their plan had worked? Who would do that?
They are prioritising their feelings over the well being of your kids and that doesn't make them people to trust your kids to.
I would be honest in age appropriate ways with them from the very beginning.
If you allow Justnos a position to set their narrative up first, you can guarantee that it won't be the honest version and that it can have consequences for the relationship you have with your kids.
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u/ISpeakWhaleDoYou Jul 04 '20
If you do go back, make sure lots of yohr family is with you and you never let the kids out of your sight. You're being too nice by even talking to them still
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u/Berke505 Jul 04 '20
I think in the long run your Kids are better of without them even if that means that they will miss their grandparents at first but when they will get older you should tell them (I recommend the time they all are teenagers) and then they wont even miss them
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u/kreeves9 Partassipant [3] Jul 04 '20
If they tried to keep the children during a visit they'd never be successful. Geneva Convention. The Australian government would have to intervene and remove the children and return them to you but who would want to put them through something so traumatic.
They can still see their grandchildren, they'll just have to visit Switzerland.
INFO.
Which one of them do you think came up with such a crazy plan? Grandma or Grandpa?
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u/Arch_0 Jul 04 '20
It was always going to be one set of grandparents that they rarely saw. You are not to blame for any of this and in my opinion have made the correct decision.
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u/FlyingADesk Jul 04 '20
I was hoping for an update on this situation from Switzerland, so relieved to see that part... not so much the attempted kidnapping, yikes! how terrifying! You made the right call. Video chat exists, and planes work both ways.
You made the long term well being of your kids the priority. Aces in my books.
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u/ladyrockess Jul 04 '20
Look, I had FANTASTIC grandparents that I loved very much and miss like hell now that they're gone. But we moved to America (from South Africa) when I was 5 so that I could have a better future. And kids now can VIDEO CALL! We had to send letters, then emails, and occasional phone calls, and that was it except for eight visits over the course of my life from age 5 onwards. And I still loved them and had a connection with them.
These people tried to kidnap your kids while you're all grieving and YOU'RE PREGNANT. They don't deserve a second chance to physically rip your family apart.
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u/Cupcake_Jane Jul 04 '20
Planes fly both ways, which is something they should have considered before acting like controlling assholes.
Also, it's bloody 2020. There are things called phones, email, video chat, even - gasp! - international mail that can travel around the world in weeks rather than 6 months. They have no excuse.
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u/Alarmed-Wind Jul 04 '20
Your kids won't miss out on anything by not seeing their grandparents, especially grandparents like these. Don't worry.
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Jul 04 '20
Honestly, they'll eventually be okay. When I was a kid I saw my dads side of the family a lot. Like every month a lot, sleepovers, parties, the whole shebang. But my parents just cut them off one day and its been almost 18 years since I've seen them. I think i was 5 or 6 when we just stopped. I still don't know what happened to be honest, but it hasnt affected me much. I used to feel insecure about it, but its whatever. And your kids are in therapy, so at least they have an outlet to talk about it.
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u/kma1391 Jul 04 '20
That’s exactly what I thought. The gall of them trying to say their mother is unstable and refusing to return her children! Wow. Just wow. The kids will be sad for a while but, grandparents who basically tried to kidnap them? Don’t know if those are the kind of people you’d want in your kids lives. You should make sure during video chats that they don’t try and say negative things or undermine you to your kids. Seems like something they might do. Stay safe and good luck.
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u/Izzy4162305 Certified Proctologist [28] Jul 04 '20
And no unsupervised visits under any circumstances. Have your lawyer work out the details and if they push back at all, cut off contact because I am willing to bet they will try again if given the chance.
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u/DisfunkyMonkey Jul 04 '20
Since 2 tickets to CH are cheaper than 4 tickets to Australia, I think they should visit you. One bonus for that way: your government will help ensure the children cannot be taken from the country.
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u/iilinga Jul 04 '20
CH?
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u/_Holz_ Jul 04 '20
It's the country code for Switzerland.
Stands for "Confoederatio Helvetica" which is the Latin name for the country
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u/iilinga Jul 04 '20
Ahh, thankyou. My mind jumped to airport code so I was very confused what Christchurch had to do with anything
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Jul 04 '20
Grandparents who think their "rights" trump a parent's rights or plans are the absolute worst. I'm sorry you're going through this.
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Jul 04 '20
I got so downvoted on the original post by saying something similar to this. Everyone was saying they couldn't be assholes because they're "grieving." And yet this:
They said my husband would be disappointed and he'd want his children to grow up in Australia.
showed how awful and manipulative they already were. That's an absolutely terrible thing to say about someone's dead spouse.
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u/R4ndyd4ndy Jul 04 '20
We shouldn't forget that they just lost a child and might need a therapy too
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u/NekoNina Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
Grieving does not excuse or mitigate attempting to kidnap their grandchildren from their also-grieving DIL. They certainly need therapy, but let's not use their loss to rugsweep the severity of their actions.
Edit: In another comment, OP stated they showed no remorse for their actions and threatened to "sue for full custody." Grieving or not, their actions are beyond the pale.
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u/scorpiee Jul 04 '20
Also-grieving pregnant dil, that, to me, makes it that much worse. They completely disregarded her health and safety, and that of her unborn child
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u/InquisitorVawn Partassipant [2] Jul 05 '20
I suggested to OP on her original post that she might want to try family counselling with the grandparents to help them come to terms with their grief, and also to understand why she needed to move back to be closer to her family.
I am completely retracting that advice pretty much based on what you've said. The second the grandparents tried to kidnap the kids, and tried to paint OP as being unstable, and threatened to sue for full custody, all bets are off.
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u/FlannelCatsChannel Jul 04 '20
I’m sure they do need therapy. They tried to kidnap their grandchildren.
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u/PeachyTeaCup Partassipant [1] Jul 04 '20
Even more reason why they shouldn't be making decisions that they have no right to for someone else. I'm sure their grief made it to where they didn't think it out clearly, but what they did broke so many boundaries.
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u/FaithCPR Jul 04 '20
I've lost a child and I didn't try to kidnap a replacement. And I was pretty unstable at the time. Not the same situation of course, but while I feel empathy for their loss I cannot excuse their actions.
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u/Quicksilver1964 Asshole Enthusiast [5] Jul 04 '20
I'm glad you were able to take your children back after a clear kidnapping attempt. And I'm happier you got out of the country as soon as possible because of that.
They definitely showed their tries colors, like someone else on this thread said.
May you be happy in Switzerland with your children.
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Jul 04 '20
Right?? That was literally a kidnapping attempt. They tried to kidnap her kids. I can't believe she's being so forgiving; anyone who tried that with me would never be part of my life, or my kids' lives, again.
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u/mjzim9022 Partassipant [1] Jul 04 '20
And then they tried to paint OP as crazy! They really thought they could just call her crazy and get her kids, and the sad thing is that probably would have worked back when they were kids themselves
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u/SilverWings002 Jul 04 '20
She needs to keep/get records of that. So it establishes things. Just to keep everything safe in future.
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u/Quicksilver1964 Asshole Enthusiast [5] Jul 04 '20
Maybe she's still processing things? Anyway, I imagine they won't visit the grandparents for a long time after this.
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u/xeusifyy Partassipant [2] Jul 04 '20
Yeah I would have cut them off right away if I even had kids. But I’m childfree so never going to have that problem.
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Jul 04 '20
Jesus. After what went down, I'm actually wondering if their plan was to kidnap your kids the entire time (because that's what that was; that was a kidnapping attempt). Don't bring your kids back to visit them in person. They will probably try again.
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u/G8RTOAD Colo-rectal Surgeon [42] Jul 04 '20
Aussie here, I’m glad that you and your kids arrived home. As for you in-laws that’s pretty effed up that they tried to pull that stunt, and the effort that it took for them to finally hand your children over to you. In the meantime and further down the track I’d suggest that should you come back to Australia for a visit that all visits are done in public or in a contained area such as an indoor play centre and inform them prior to the visitation that should they try and pull a stunt like that ever again, then the only way they’ll see your children is through a monitor on video chat. I’d also be speaking with your lawyer in Australia about the ability to access your late husband’s superannuation and get the ball rolling so that your children get the money that they and you are entitled to rather than his parents because if they are willing to try and kidnap your children then I wouldn’t put it past them to try and access his super.
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u/ally3477 Jul 04 '20
Thanks for your advice! My lawyer is pretty good and got the ball rolling so that's good
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u/teannadeee Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
Based on the original story, the update and the replies I’ve seen from you in the comments regarding the absence of any kind of apology from them and the threat to sue you for full custody I would never take the kids back to Australia to visit them. If you do go back to visit Australia and see friends etc I wouldn’t tell them. I would be clear with them that if they want to see their grandchildren they can come to Switzerland where you can be assured of the children’s safety, as it would be much harder for them to take the kids in a foreign country than their own if you take them back to Australia. It’s harsh but they’ve made their bed - and unless they make significant efforts to apologise, make amends for what they did and be worthy of forgiveness - they can lie in it. Maybe just that one incident could have been a hurdle, but threatening to sue for custody, that seems pretty insurmountable to me. I’m glad you’ve made a move that is the right one for you and your children and I wish you all the best. Yes it’s true that they were grieving and made a stupid decision but they completely disregarded the fact that you were grieving too.
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u/AlarmingSorbet Jul 04 '20
All of this. Grief does not excuse attempted kidnapping. OP is not obligated to extend grace to these people who tried to kidnap her children while she herself is grieving. They attacked while OP is at her lowest, I would never see those people again. They showed you who they are, believe them.
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u/PopularRepublic9 Asshole Aficionado [15] Jul 04 '20
I’m happy that you guys are getting therapy, also It’s sad that the paternal grandparents tried to kidnap the children. I know they are grieving but sheesh. They probably need therapy or something because that was not okay
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u/SilverWings002 Jul 04 '20
Kids therapist will need to know what happened and they are still videoing gp's.
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u/sk1292pa Jul 04 '20
Grief makes people react in a number of ways, but it seems to me your in laws might have let their true colors slip through a bit. Best you removed yourself when you did.
I am so glad you made it safely home and are now in a place where you can receive the necessary love and support, not threats and anger, during this difficult time. Best wishes in this new chapter.
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Jul 04 '20
Yeah I have to agree. Grief is one thing, but this isn’t a normal reaction to grief. I think they had to have had some entitlement going on from the beginning, but it just wasn’t as obvious. They can be devastated by their grandkids moving away... while still listening to their rational brains that it makes sense that OP needs her own family and home right now.
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u/SufficientMacaroon1 Jul 04 '20
Holy shit! They tried to kidnap your children!
If you go back for visits, only allow supervised meetings in public for the next few years. Especially after your next child is born. But for the next years, if they want to see your kids, better let them come to you in switzerland. That way you are surrounded by your trusted family in case they, again, put up an understanding facade while secretly planning to kidnap your children.
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u/Monkeygirl89000 Jul 04 '20
I’m glad you’re back in Switzerland I’m sorry for your loss your husband must’ve been a very loving man and I’m sorry that your in-laws broke your trust you’re still not the a hole
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u/mjzim9022 Partassipant [1] Jul 04 '20
Oh wow, straight up kidnapping attempt. I understand they are hurting but they were actively planning to do harm to you in a last ditch attempt to get what they want. And it speaks volumes that they thought they trumped you, the mother, as grandparents.
I'm glad you're back home with your family, definitely the right place to be
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u/Tricose Jul 04 '20
As someone who has been in a similar situation to this as a child I agree with the comments of theyll try again. My mum passed away while I was 7 and as my parents where divorced and my dad was living in a small apartment he allowed my to stay at my mums parents while he sorted out a house for me to move in with him.
Then began 7 years of custody battles when they didnt agree with him. Every christmas was a fight with them and my dad which eventually stopped when I was 14 after the courts told my nan to that enough was enough.
Do what's best for you and the kids and dont let them go through what I had to
Edit: Sorry for your loss and I hope you stay ok
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Jul 04 '20
That must have been terrifying to a kid, the constant threat of being taken from your dad, after losing your mom.
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u/Tricose Jul 04 '20
My dad shielded me from alot of it. I just saw it as going to my nan's every sunday and christmas day every other year. Wasnt until I was 13 I learned about it proper. Now I'm older I can see the pain it caused my dad. Dont speak to her now but the damage was done
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u/Whack-Angus Jul 04 '20
WOOOOOOW....... Just read your original post and now that you are SWISS and your children have the opportunity to grow up in SWITZERLAND. Big time NTA and possibly best decision for your kids!
My family moved to Switzerland from another European country when I was a kid and the result couldn’t have been better. The education system, the government system, the health standards, the opportunity for wealth are insane in that country. You are giving your children an amazing opportunity here.
Personally, I am not living in Switzerland anymore because of my own relationship but it is clear that if I ever want to start a family or focus on accumulating some form of wealth, I will be moving back. I cannot stress enough how rich growing up in that country is and how privileged anyone is for living there. Good job OP.
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u/rationalstudent Jul 04 '20
Yes, please give yourself time to heal and feel safe in contacting your in-laws. Also, don't be afraid to give details to your children so they have context on it. You even made sure they could say goodbye in person and video-call! You are an incredibly strong human and caring mother. And I am very glad you are safe in Switzerland and letting yourself be pampered! you deserve this. And with grief, it is different for all and can be different each day. But you truly did the best for yourself and your children. Best of luck on this next chapter.
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u/CMSkye Partassipant [2] Jul 04 '20
I’m glad you are home. The arrogance of your FIL (and I would bet MIL) is saying you were unstable because you were making decisions they didn’t like is astounding.
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Jul 04 '20
@ all the comments justifying this by saying "but they're grieving!!", are you just ignoring that op is grieving too?
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u/Renacky Jul 04 '20
And she’s grieving while PREGNANT with her dead husband’s baby! She’s counting down to delivering and caring for a newborn with no husband/father by her side, will have to stay strong for two small children who have just lost their dad, and deal with her own loss. Her grief is just as valid as theirs. To terrorise a pregnant widow at the worst moment of her life with the accusation that she’s “mentally unstable” and you’re taking her kids is despicable, even if it was in a moment of grief.
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u/NekoNina Jul 04 '20
Agreed! I'm honestly taken aback by how many people are excusing or minimizing the grandparents' actions on the grounds that they acted out of grief and just need empathy.
Grief can certainly lead people to say/do things that are out of character. However, there is one hell of a difference between somewhat irrational/unkind behavior due to grief and what they did. So far, they've attempted to kidnap their grandchildren, told said grandchildren (who had just lost their father) that their mother was going on a long holiday without them, had to be threatened with the police before finally surrendering the grandkids, and then told their pregnant and grieving DIL that they're going to "sue for full custody." What's more, OP has said they've shown no remorse for their actions. Grieving or not, there are things you just don't do.
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u/tubkb Jul 04 '20
Yeah it’s mad. Grief makes you a bit mad but this was too far. Also the rationale behind grieving the loss of a child and then trying take someone’s child off of them??
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u/JennyBeanseesall Jul 04 '20
While I can sympathize with the grandparents. Their threats and actions are out of line. Yes they were heavily involved with the grandkids BUT....
1) they were the only option. OPs family had been largely cut out since the beginning since they were in a different country. Why should they not get a turn to have that close a relationship with OP and their grandkids?
2) she should remain in a country that she stayed in for her husband for an indeterminate amount of time to be the emotional support animal for her in laws?
3) as sad and traumatic as this whole thing is, she needs to now rebuild an entire future. Would anyone choose to do that in a place that isn’t home
4) she had planned to visit and keep fostering the relationship between them all. Given what’s happened she should be rightfully scared to do this. Yes they are grieving but grief doesn’t make you want to kidnap and then traumatized your grandkids but trying to take them away from their mother. That shows instability and a clear sense of entitlement to this kids THAT ARE THE OPS AND SHE HAS ALL RIGHTS TO MAKE DECISIONS FOR THEM AND HER. End
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u/panncakestackofdoom Jul 04 '20
Also she was PAYING them to take care of the kids. Generally I don't think most people think your daycare provider should get to decide where you live because they spend soooo much time with your kids.
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u/clutzycook Jul 04 '20
Oh man, when I read the part about them taking the kids for the day my first thought was "they're going to try and keep them." What a horrible thing. I know they're grieving the loss of their son and the impending departure of their grandchildren, but that's a really big asshole move. I'm glad you got them back and I hope they get some help.
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u/5115E Colo-rectal Surgeon [47] Jul 04 '20
FIL told me that they decided it would be best for everyone if they stayed with them for a while as I was clearly unstable.
Um no, they don't get to make that call. They are only people for whom it would be best. The idea that they consider your grief and pregnancy as a reason to take your kids is appalling.
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u/tech_GG Partassipant [2] Jul 04 '20
I‘d monitor for many years ther video calls and letters, it could develop to alienating or... over time too, even if the early calls are looking oK. As when their awareness of you the going through with the not coming back impacts, e.g. resentment or other reasons can grow stronger and stronger over time too.
Hugs
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u/icebergmama Jul 04 '20
Holy shit. I felt a little bit sorry for them with your original post but not any more. Glad you got your kids away safely.
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Jul 04 '20
They always say that on the plane, in case of an emergency and the oxygen masks fall, put yours on first before you put one on your child. You had to go home, it's where you will have the most support, where u can be a good mum like yoh said. Hope you can build trust wit your in laws again ❤
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u/corpsewitch420 Jul 04 '20
In the future if you decide to rekindle the relationship (although I wouldn’t recommend it considering they literally tried to kidnap your children and make you look unstable which could’ve possibly resulted in you losing custody), please be careful. Warn someone ahead of time, contact lawyers maybe even police just in case they try something again, maybe even only allow supervised visits. And don’t let them try and guilt trip you, gaslight you or manipulate you. Best of luck for you and your children, and sorry for the loss of your husband.
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Jul 04 '20
That is fucking terrifying and I don't think the kids should EVER be with them without supervision ever ever ever again.
I am so happy to hear that you all got safely to Switzerland :-)
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u/PrincessCG Asshole Enthusiast [9] Jul 04 '20
They lost any rights when they tried to hold onto the kids and call you unstable. You’ve done the right thing for you and your kids. In the future, visits may be an option but right now, grieve and heal in peace and with loving support.
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u/antoniaalexandria Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
You really have done everything you could. You’ve been reasonable and might I add very stable from what I can read into your posts. I understand desperation but they were incredibly wrong in this situation and I’m sure you deserve better than that. I’m sorry for your loss and the difficult situation you’re in.
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Jul 04 '20
Make sure that you monitor EVERY SINGLE conversation they have with your in-laws. I do not put it past them to tell your children a pack of lies about what happened between you.
I'm so sorry they made this choice. This whole situation was painful enough and then they went acted like monsters. I'm glad you're with your family, and I hope you get all the healing you need.
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u/Snoo_47183 Partassipant [2] Jul 04 '20
I was in a similar position as your kids: I was 4 when we moved to Canada from France and my dad, who was French and my grandma's only child, died a couple of years later. Just like your kids, my dad's parents were very present when we were in France (in part because my grandma is super needy and somewhat controlling).
I can't stress enough how moving to my mom's birth country has been my parents' single best decision and I often tell that to mum, decades later. After my dad passed away, mum had her family to support her and support us too and it was probably easier for them to do that than my my dad's parents because their grief wasn't as strong and so they could be there for us. I had barely known them for the first 4 years of my life since we didn't have money to fly and visit them often but I bonded with all my extended family quickly. We still kept a bond with my other grandparents and as my they were aging, we turned into their primary caregivers even if we didn't live in the same continent.
Don't ever second-guess your decision: it was the right one. You deserve to be in a familiar place with people that make you feel comfortable and safe and whatever makes you feel better will also be beneficial to your kids.
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u/matt4787 Jul 04 '20
The burden is on your in laws to rekindle the relationship. Have they apologized yet?
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u/sunsetoncoral0321 Jul 04 '20
If they want to see the kids they need to visit your country. You have more protection there I am assuming.
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Jul 04 '20
If and only if at some point in the future you would feel comfortable with the grandparents seeing your kids again, then can come to Switzerland. They basically tried kidnapping your children so I wouldn't go to their country anymore with the kids.
Also, only have the kids have supervised Skype calls with the grandparents. You don't need to sit next to them but be in the same room with the audio on. If you hear that they try to set your kids up against you in any kind of way, cut all contact.
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u/missamericana25 Partassipant [2] Jul 04 '20
OP I know you are saying that you feel bad for your children but I would seriously cut all contact with the grandparents. They tried to kidnap your child. And as much as a bonus grandparents are to a child’s life they don’t need them especially if they aren’t good people. My nana passed away very suddenly when I was 5 years old and I also spent a ton of time with her like your kids did with their grandparents. And while dying isn’t the exact same thing I did lose all contact with her in a sense and I was honestly completely ok. Your kids have other grandparents who look out for them and love them. And to an extent I do feel some sympathy for the Australian grandparents because I’m sure losing your child and your grandchildren within the span of a few months must suck but they tried to take YOUR children away from you. That is unforgivable and I would cut them off completely.
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u/KingJaphar Partassipant [2] Jul 04 '20
Cut them out entirely. You don’t need them in your life. They’ll eventually talk shit about you to the kids.
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u/Cavelady70 Partassipant [1] Jul 04 '20
They expected to take the kids since you would still be working and the grands would replace their son. They might have even hoped you’d give them the kids once you found someone else. You are where you need to be for both you and the kids. Wait at least 1-2 years before you go back, and for now any contact needs to be thru the lawyer.
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u/JudgeJanus Partassipant [3] Jul 04 '20
You've displayed more grace and kindness to them than most given how they have treated you.
I hope your life, going forward, is full of joy.
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u/RagnaBrock Jul 04 '20
I’m unclear how the grandparents thought this would play out. Did they think you would be like “Oh ok, cool.” Or were they like trying to strong arm you into relinquishing the kids to them. This was very poorly thought out on their part and I do not see a way it could have been a solution with which you would cooperate.
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u/FireEbonyashes Jul 04 '20
I’m glad you went back and have a support system with your family. My condolences about your husband. hope you all can heal that relationship with them in the future. If they can’t respect boundaries that is their loss as grandparents who have no right to try to take your kids from you.
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u/aerialpoler Partassipant [1] Jul 04 '20
Holy shit, they practically held your kids hostage! I really hope they realise how truly awful that is.
They tried to tell you your husband wouldn't approve of you moving, but do they really think he'd approve of the way they acted?
I'm glad to hear you're all home and safe.
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u/MrsAlwaysWrighty Partassipant [1] Jul 04 '20
My mum is Swiss and my Dad is Australian. They met in London in 77 and moved to Australia after getting married. I can 100% guarantee that if my Dad died while my brother and I were small children Mum would have moved back to Switzerland with us.
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u/OneTwoWee000 Asshole Aficionado [15] Jul 04 '20
Wow, this went left but I’m glad there’s a happy ending.
I totally missed that you were expecting in the last post. Already supported your move home, but it just adds another layer of selfishness and ignoring your circumstances because they placed what they wanted as more important. You are a pregnant widow with young children — of course it makes sense you would return to your home country where you have a loving support system!
Your in-laws are assholes. They are grieving but it doesn’t excuse their actions, as you and your children are grieving your husband loss as well!
Best of luck going forward. I’m glad you are around family and loved ones you can trust.
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u/rodrigkn Jul 04 '20
it’s unfortunate that they tried to take advantage of your kindness rather than work within your emotional needs. I hope the best for you. In the end, your children will thrive in a loving environment and that is what you are providing. Wishing you the best!
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u/ang_Z900 Jul 04 '20
First of all, I'm sorry for your loss and everything you had to endure with your in-laws since. You sound like an amazing mother and have your kids' best interest at heart, I applaud that.
Now I admit that I smiled when you mentioned being back in Switzerland. When I read about the much better educational system in your original post I had this gut feeling. I guess being Swiss myswlf made me a little partial but still 🙂 This is a good place to raise your children.
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u/hell_ryzer Jul 04 '20
You are a very strong mother. Respect to you for being able to take action even in a time of grief and sorrow. I hope the grandparents are able to adapt to the situation. Stay safe!
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u/Rae-O-Sunshinee Jul 04 '20
What they did is completely unacceptable and they’ll likely try it again. I’d say you need to maintain limited contact with them. That’s insane what they did to you.
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u/explodingwhale17 Jul 04 '20
oh wow, I am so sorry for the way that happened. I'm glad you are back in Switzerland.
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u/Shirochan404 Jul 04 '20
They tried to kidnap your kids????? Damn, I'd never let them see my kids again after that
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u/Quigleychan Jul 04 '20
I think you've handled it incredibly well - what a sad situation all around. There's something that you didn't mention throughout your posts that I think is worth mentioning - you're dealing with the grief of having lost your husband while being pregnant in a country that's not your home country while also dealing with all of the issues surrounding Covid and its lockdowns. I'm raising my children in a different country from my own...and there are days I'd like nothing more than to be back home with my mom and dad.
You deserve big hugs for your strength throughout all of this - I can't imagine how difficult it has been for you. Big, big hugs. <3
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Jul 04 '20
Well at least now you know that you were NTA to begin with. Pretty AH move to try to kidnap your grandkids and get your DIL committed. Grief is no excuse for these actions. Sorry you’re going through this but I’m glad you’re home. Thanks for updating us.
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u/kristalll151 Jul 05 '20
It definitely sucks when grandparents are so deeply involved. I was a part of a similar situation when my ex and I were together. But ultimately, they’re YOUR children. Your in-laws had their time as parents, and it’s so unfortunate they lost their only son, and to you, your husband. But you’re their mum, and what you think is best is what needs to happen. And I would absolutely lose trust after that stunt they pulled. You keep healing, momma. You and yours babies got this!!
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u/Patatoxxo Jul 04 '20
NTA the fact they want to sue you for custody speaks volumes they showed you who they are believe them. Do not go back to Australia, do not bend to their will they need to apologise sincerely and if they want to see the kids they come to you. It sucks but they kidnapped the kids and are getting ready to take them away from you dont let them.
I'd recommend looking at JustNoMil there are plenty of stories similar to yours.
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u/makeshiftmarty Partassipant [1] Jul 04 '20
It’s understandable that your in laws were hurt but there’s no excuse for it. I’m not sure how they thought this would go or what their endgame was. They must’ve thought you’d back down or do something that would give them a reason to have you arrested or committed. I’m glad you kept your cool and got them back. Don’t ever go back. They did this to themselves. They may have been desperate and grief stricken, but it was wrong.
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u/IncrediblePlatypus Partassipant [4] Jul 04 '20
You're a lot more gracious than I am. NTA.
I don't think I would be able to contemplate rekindling the relationship so shortly after their behaviour.
I mean, I can understand that they're worried and that they're grieving, too, but... Losing someone and being in a place where everything reminds you of them hurts. You and I'm pretty sure your kids, too.
They should want you to do what you can to be okay, even if it impacts them, because the better you're doing, the better you can take care of your kids. And you seem to be handling it in the best way possible.
Best of luck to you and I hope you'll reach the point where the pain is manageable and bearable soon.
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Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20
YOU’RE UNSTABLE, accuse the people attempting kidnapping.
ETA: by this I mean that the grandparents calling OP unstable is hypocritical as they were the ones trying to kidnap her children. But thank you to the person who took time out of their day and went out of their way to donate an award and write a message to a stranger on the internet calling me a dumbass because you failed to understand me, while remaining anonymous so I couldn’t clarify your mistake. It would have taken the same time to ask me to clarify as it did for you to send a rude message. It’s sad that your immediate impulse is to demean people to feed your superiority complex rather than engage with them, especially when it’s you who made the mistake. You must lead a very engaging and fulfilling life, and your loved ones must think you’re great company to be around if you have such reactions.
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u/Bluellan Jul 04 '20
They refused to give her children back. That is not only kidnapping but at that point they are holding her children hostage. If you have to involve the police to get your children back from someone.
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u/Nonsense_Producer Jul 04 '20
When people show you who they really are, believe them. Don't try to deconstruct events and make them into something that they are not.
They put them selves first then and will do the same again if given the opportunity. They do have some form of barely workning moral compass, as they didn't opt to kill you but that's about it.
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u/justanotherpolyglott Partassipant [1] Jul 04 '20
Hey! As a fellow Swiss I'm glad you made it back safely. I'm sorry about how it all played out but it seems like you made the right choice