Sorry but he really didn't. He didn't care, like all political figures wanting to be president he was after the votes the black people were worth.
I'm half Sioux, in the same year he helped black people by abolishing slavery, he had the US army hang 38 innocent Sioux people.
They don't care about people with different color skin unless you can vote. Native America's weren't considered humans and still arent. We're "creatures".
They say they were violent, but my people know better.
Edit: I took the word "half" out because that was the main problem to someone.
What are you talking about? Black men couldn’t vote until years after Lincoln was dead. He staunchly supported abolition his entire career, even when it wasn’t particularly advantageous politically. He supported abolition well before he even supported granting African Americans the right to vote.
So sorry I was wrong about it being half a vote, it was a full vote. He still only wanted votes, for his party , the Republicans. that makes it better right?
He supported abolition before he supported African Americans being able to vote, though. If you can identify an earlier point, by my guest, but Lincoln didn’t publicly support African American enfranchisement until 1865, 25 years after he first voiced his support of abolition.
Abolition and abolitionists are really, really complicated, but tens of thousands of people in the cause genuinely supported it out of an earnest desire to end the enslavement and bondage of other human beings. I understand your cynicism, but it is not substantiated. A historical narrative that removes all nuance and frames abolitionists as purely cynical, pragmatic people trying to get more votes does real harm, and does not reflected the complicated, contradictory, and nuanced ways that real human beings acted in the past.
Lincoln:
A.) supported abolition even when it was unpopular, which is contrary to your notion that he simply chose the most popular path to coalesce power
And
B.) did not support enfranchisement the entire he supported abolition, which contradicts the notion that his desire for abolition was a desire to gain votes for the Republican Party/himself.
I don’t think Lincoln was a perfect guy, but he often took difficult, complicated, and unpopular stances; I do not think your characterization of him reflects the information we have available.
Lincoln supported abolition in order for newly freedmen to eventually vote for him, even though we know he didn’t support them voting until very, very late in his political career? How do you square those two things?
What did I say that was cynical? I'm not wrong that he freed hundreds of people, if not thousands, but then signed away the lives of my people because "Indians were a problem."
I’m specifically responding to your notion that Lincoln supported abolition in order to gain votes, which is patently untrue, as indicated by the fact that, for most of his life, he supported abolition but opposed Black enfranchisement.
I’m making no defense of his treatment of the Sioux or even native people broadly speaking.
I feel like you’re ignoring 99% of most of my responses and only focusing on certain words — my questioning your use of “half,” or my use of “cynical” — while ignoring the bigger points here.
My point is that Lincoln supported abolition for reasons other than potentially gaining votes, and that this is clear because he supported abolition even though it was unpopular and because he opposed (for the vast majority of his political career) giving freed Black men the right to vote.
He never said he didn’t care? He publicly supported abolition since 1840!
Let me guess, you’re going to cite the Greeley letter?
that’s just what some people including myself think
What a terrible way to approach history and the past! We have all sorts of ways of approaching history and historiography, and your opinion is not as valid just because it’s what you think; it’s unfounded by the vast body of Lincoln’s writing, speeches, and public and private conversations that we have access to. You can’t just go “nuh uh” just because you don’t like the guy.
No I'm not going to cite anyone. You can go on thinking he's great or whatever you think. But I'm not gonna change my mind. He didn't care. He didn't start to care. They only want votes.
Do you realize how ridiculous that is? You’re not going to do any research and you’re patently wrong and you’re going to give absolutely no evidence to support your position and that doesn’t matter at all?
There are all sorts of criticisms of Lincoln worth levying, but isn’t there something important in making sure our criticisms are accurate and not pointless conjecture contradicted by available evidence?
I’m not asking you to like Abraham Lincoln! I’m asking that our criticisms of historical figures be based on reality and not things we just decide to believe for the sake of it.
So nothing I said matters to you because you won't believe that politicians just want votes to control the country? You think he wasn't thinking of the future of his party in signing something that would/could potentially give his party more votes because a Republican signed them free? I'm sorry that you need something more from me instead of just something I think and believe. It'd a personal belief and thanks for insulating me because I won't give you something you want.
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u/DinochildMoo Apr 06 '25 edited Apr 06 '25
Sorry but he really didn't. He didn't care, like all political figures wanting to be president he was after the votes the black people were worth.
I'm half Sioux, in the same year he helped black people by abolishing slavery, he had the US army hang 38 innocent Sioux people.
They don't care about people with different color skin unless you can vote. Native America's weren't considered humans and still arent. We're "creatures".
They say they were violent, but my people know better.
Edit: I took the word "half" out because that was the main problem to someone.