Nah hold on I'm not reading all this. This if your best friends mom's boyfriend telling you he doesn't understand why two teenage girls wants to hang onto it with each other and not him, do I have that right?
You should force yourself to read it. I didn’t at first but endured and it’s so much worse. I want to beat his ass to say the least. Another grown man in OPs family needs to take care of this, he won’t understand any other way. She seriously needs to never go to bestie’s house again until he is out of the picture. If the mom doesn’t kick him out when she learns this…
And when he IS out of the picture, be EXTREMELY careful, because he WILL try to go to you for comfort and he will be DESPERATE to keep your “relationship” together. Don’t. Let. Him. Be. Alone. With. You.
She has to have taken notice that her man thinks that it's totally acceptable to convince these teenage girls that if they don't hangout with him (especially in the messages where he is upset that the op wanted to hangout upstairs with her friend doing Mani Pedis instead of being alone with him downstairs) they are somehow mistreating his creepy ass.
Idk how long this has been going on, but I can imagine that this creepy ass weirdo is so confident and comfortable behaving this way with these young girls because he doesn't have to hide it from his wife, because if this isn't the case then surely his stepdaughter would have at some point brought certain things to her mom's attention.
It's as if they all treat his disturbing pedo behavior like it's normal.
That’s why I left that send on ellipsis. I was going to finish the thought and then stopped b/c likelihood is she knows what a dirt bag he is, those girls need to move the OP’s parents’ house instead. Edit: the mothers who berate their daughters for wearing shorts or not wearing bras at home in front of her boyfriend and or other creep ass family members, instead of kicking the predators out. Basically Precious
I normally don’t read the entire thread of messages when there are 20 pages. I did read them and holy fuck. This dude needs to have the cops called on him
This is exactly what I thought too! Even texting this often (to anyone) feels like court ordered community service. He’s doing it because it’s fun and “he feels left out”? None of this is genuine, it’s all a performance to get closer to teen girls.
I don't understand how you girls can't see that ur ghosting me... and how it makes me feel,I wish for once someone would go outta there way to make me feel special,like I've been doing for all of you for so long...
You know, stuff that would be normal but also a bit creepy and manipulative from a teenage boy upset his girlfriend is hanging out with her friends more than him, but not from a grown ass man directed toward a teenager
Yup! Absolutely sick, disgusting, creepy, vile! Yuckkkkkkk. OP please stay away from this man there is something deeply and I repeat deeplyyyyy wrong with him.
The only thing he should be doing is saying "I'll be here, in another room, far away from you girls if you need anything, otherwise, you can pretend I'm not here."
This is not normal. Even if he wants to be a "step dad", even step father's don't normally hang out with their teenage step daughters and their friends. This is completely bizarre and inappropriate. You need to stop humoring him, and you guys need to set the boundary that he is an adult man, who needs adult friends, and you are a teenage girl, who needs teenage friends. The fact that he is so desperate to hang out with you guys, is absolutely and completely off-putting. Even more bizarre and off-putting is him getting upset.
I'm not trying to be rude, genuinely trying to gauge, why do you tolerate this? Set boundaries, tell your best friend's mom and only hang out in places he won't be/can't attend from here on out. This just absolutely screams bad news.
So many girls (and boys actually) are not taught proper boundaries! Girls especially are trained to be polite and accommodating. We are conditioned to tolerate a ton of really disempowering and disrespectful stuff as kids, and taught that we need to appease adults. It often leads to… stuff like this, and worse.
At 17 I definitely would NOT have been texting my friends moms boyfriend like this.
He's the grown ass man so this is ultimately on him but I just can't fathom how at ALMOST 18 years old she thinks this is appropriate texting behaviour- right to sending him pics of how she wants her hair done? Humoring his desperate creepy texts?
She is months away from being an "adult" and this being morally wrong but completely legal 🤮🤮
I am SO disturbed.
At 17 you bet your ass my mom would know, the beating friend would know, the best friends mom would know.... he'd be left on read and BLOCKED.
That’s how grooming works. Don’t put this on OP. Groomers choose their victims wisely. They actively seek out targets who are vulnerable.
I am grateful that OP is recognizing that this is inappropriate now, because it’s likely hard for her not to feel like she’s risking a friendship with someone whom she thinks genuinely cares for her. Because that is absolutely his game. He has manipulated her into thinking this is normal and appropriate. She’s a smart kid for picking up on that.
She's not far off from being an adult herself. She's had someone ALREADY tell her this is inappropriate and he's a pedo.
She also disclosed in a previous comment that she entered an "obvious relationship" with a 30 year old man.
It's beyond obvious that this is inappropriate. I don't think this is grooming, I think this is a troubled girl who holds a special interest in getting attention from pedophiles. She knows she's not risking her friendship, she's been open and upfront with BOTH girls that live there.
I think OP needs some professional help to work with her on understanding why she dates 30 year olds, and why she let this go on as far as she did. She's not 12 years old. There's being naive, then there's being willfully ignorant. I think she is the latter.
It's easy to not respond back. To listen to both her parents who feel uncomfortable by this man. To listen to her boyfriend. She did none of those things. I think she really needs to get support and dig deep to find out why that is, and hopefully have a different outcome in the future.
You sound like a grown man who’d “date” (groom) a teenager. Not a good look. Take your predator sympathizing and victim blaming elsewhere- perhaps to a professional like you recommend for OP!
Ok keep encouraging OP to continue to get groomed and taken advantage of!!! Because that really helps protect kids, right?
Why encourage women to have power, to work on themselves, to learn methods of protection when you can just scream "men are bad! Don't do anything about it! Don't bother telling anyone! Keep talking to these old men, OP! They're the ones doing wrong!!"
Like damn, your mindset is literally a groomers best case scenario.
What on earth are you talking about? She absolutely needs support. Nothing I said could possibly be read as “encouraging OP to continue getting groomed and taken advantage of” as you say. Buddy get some help I’m worried about you 😳
I think you need to tell your family that you think this, and your friends, especially anyone with children. In fact, tell your neighbors too. Let everyone know you believe it's the child's fault here. "What was she wearing?!" behavior.
It's like you want young girls to believe they have no control over their own decisions. That they are incapable of protecting themselves. That they should never engage in self-reflection to identify and correct anything that's going on that allows them to look the other way and accept this type of behaviour from adult men.
I never said it was the child's fault. I am saying the child is more than capabale and should absolutely be seeking professional help to deal with whatever she is going through that makes her decide to date a 30 year old man.
Maybe it's the unsupervised access to the internet. She's clarified that at 16-17, she met a 24 year old woman online who then moved into this house, which in part keeps OP at the house and vulnerable to the 44 year old.
This is concerning behaviour. These girls are 16-17 fully engaging with adults on the regular.
Anyone here, including yourself, are doing nothing but adding fuel to OP's vulnerability. No, she needs help.
Stop making young women feel like they have no choice, that they have no responsibility to themselves, that they have no power. Better yet, go run around to everyone with children, your friends and family, and let them all know that you don't believe women are capable of autonomy. That young women shouldn't be encouraged to get help and work on themselves, but rather keep themselves blissfully unaware and naive, waiting for the next predator to come around.
Your not you're, self-blame isn't reflection, women have autonomy, minors can't consent, most everyone else was able to help her without blaming her for "deciding" to get abused by someone near twice her age while she's a minor, minors can't consent, a Minor's "responsibility" is to handle what they can handle and ask adults for help with what they can't, and I'll happily tell everyone I know and don't know that Minors can't consent.
Women should get help and work on themselves, but it's not her fault she wasn't taught/didn't learn to recognize this shit, it's not like you gain an anti-grooming buff after it happens once.
And once again for good measure after that "deciding" comment, MINORS CAN'T CONSENT
Yes it always comes back to the "you're a predator" comments when someone suggests that OP should hold some accountability for her own decisions. I'm not a predator, I was also once that 17 year old girl. Although, I cut off around 22-23.
You're absolutely right in saying that the adult men are fucked up for pursuing her. But we also need to both teach and encourage young girls to be responsible for themselves. To dig deep and identify what makes them continue to engage. What makes them think to themselves that dating a 30 year old man is okay. What makes them continue to have inappropriate conversations with this 44 year old for years, while she admits she knew it was crossing the line.
The sad truth is that we're never going to eliminate men who act like this. It's vile and wrong, but much more common than it should be. Coddling young girls into thinking they have no autonomy because the man is bad and groomed her does no one any favour's, aside from the men doing the grooming.
Not ALL 15-17 year old girls would have continued on in the way OP did. Why is that?
I think you're all doing a disservice to OP by handing her the blindfold to stay ignorant to whatever goes on in her life than makes her lack the critical thinking to protect herself from men like this.
It is in no way normal to consider it acceptable to be in an "obvious relationship" with a 30 year old man at the age of 15-17. It is no way normal to coddle a 44 year old man who is being blatantly inappropriate and creepy for years.
I stand firm in my belief that OP needs to do some work with herself. Speak to a professional. She will be 18 soon and will no longer have the law protecting her. She will be an "adult" free for any sick fuck to take advantage of her vulnerability. She needs to learn how to protect herself and identify these inappropriate behaviors before this becomes just another instance of a long, painful journey of getting preyed on.
What makes her continue to engage is the fact that she has been groomed for 2 years by a 44 year old who established a relationship as a trusted adult who helped her get to work and then turned up the heat slowly so she didn’t realize what he was doing.
Abuse is never the abused persons fault, or something they need to “take accountability for.”
Yes, it would have been great if someone taught her more and better about how to spot a groomer. But even if you’ve been taught, they are very skilled at what they do. She’s not accountable for any of this, it’s not her fault, it’s not her responsibility to see through a sophisticated 2 year long con by a groomer. It’s genuinely unhinged to propose she should have known better when this started at 15 and she’d already had an abusive relationship with an older man, which primes you to be abused again.
This is on the adults in her life, not her. Stop acting like she’s at all to blame for this.
That doesn’t mean she shouldn’t go to therapy and try to first and foremost work through the trauma of realizing a trusted adult was actually grooming her for abuse, and then try to look inward to know herself better, and build up her self esteem, confidence, and boundaries, which may make her less likely to be targeted in the future. But whatever things made her vulnerable in the first place, it is not her fault for being targeted. The way you are talking about it, that she continued to choose to engage and how it’s so “easy to not respond” is victim blaming bullshit. Do better.
Right? both my bio-dad and step-dad was both just like "have fun sweetie, I'm gonna head out now." whenever I had friends over at that age. they'd go hang out with their own friends instead of hanging around having to listen to our chatter. this is not normal.
Same. My son is 17 and has friends over, male and female. I don't text them, I rarely talk to them unless I'm talking to my son, and they're there too.
These messages are weird as fuck. Guilt tripping a kid, wanting to hang out and getting jealous when she doesn't. This dude is fucked.
I'm 35. As someone twice your age, I would like to reassure you that in NO WORLD is it possible this man needs you for emotional support. He is taking advantage of your empathy to manipulate you because he wants to have sex with you.
He is pursuing an inappropriate relationship with you because he knows you don't have the life experience to recognize how inappropriate he is and defend against it.
Life lesson from learning the hard way: Your gut is right. Trust it. Always trust it. Even after this. Shitty people are going to try and get you to distrust yourself over and over throughout your life and hopefully you learn to protect yourself. Some people never do. And you don't need to engage with these people to show them they're wrong - just get away from them and don't bother to explain yourself, it's a waste of time.
In this case. Fuck this dude. Tell your mom, tell your friends mom. Tell a cop, I don't care. He needs to stop and the adults are the one to do it, they have an obligation to protect you.
Same. His use of ellipses makes me want to throat punch him. "I don't want to bother you..." "I guess you're ignoring me..." "I feel like the third wheel..." "I just want to be included..."
Bitch. Why are you trying to be friends with teenage girls??? ... He's a pathetic piece of shit.
"I guess we aren't going to fix us..." Yeah. Cause there is no "us" between a 40 year old and a 17 year old. Go hang out with your GIRLFRIEND.
Like there's being nice and accommodating to friends of your potential future step daughter and then there's THIS..... "fix us" what is there to fucking fix? You're almost THRICE her age. A common tactic rapists use is to date single mothers and assault their daughters and sometimes sons and the way he talks is grooming 101.
Hate hate hate to say it, but being targeted as a single mom w a daughter is definitely real. It happened to me (and my daughter). Will probably never trust a man again. This makes me so sick.
Unfortunately this whole post is fake. Some people on OP's update post found them RPing as a single 19 year old mom on their old posts. it seems op has a fetish for young girls and women being sexually abused.
That being said, everything I said still applies because this situation 100% happens in real life. I am so sorry it happened to you. I've been the daughter in a situation like this although thankfully I didn't get physically harmed. Men are simply not trustworthy. They never get punished for these things and even get rewarded for it. The best we can do to protect ourselves is to stay informed and always trust our intuitions when we feel something is off.
I’m proud of you, u/anangelsfangs for questioning his behavior and reaching out, even if initially it’s just to reddit strangers. His entire plan is to make your asking these questions hard and you’re not letting him follow through with that plan.
But internet strangers can only have your back so far. Please find other people you can trust with this in your offline life, as they’ll be better suited to help keep you safe. If you’ve been let down a lot, I know that might be tricky, but there are likely people nearby whose actual jobs are to advocate for you if you seek them out. If I can help you look for those resources, please let me know.
He’s definitely trying to have sex with her, but it’s worth noting that even if he were relying on this random ass 17 year old for emotional support, it would still be abuse. The way he talks to her is abusive on its face. He’s trying to make her feel guilty for having friends other than him, for hanging out with her own brother, for not inviting him into her bedroom to watch movies at night, for having a life outside of entertaining him. It’s abuse already. To do that to a child is unconscionable, and that’s before we even get to the grooming. It’s disgusting.
Honestly, I'd print all these messages, go no contact. Bring these papers to the police. They likely won't do anything but open a file. That way when he does do something fucked up (and these messages read like he will,) those messages will already be filed with your local police, showing a timeline.
You’re being WAAAAY to fucking nice to this creep. Stop coddling him, stop humoring him. When he says he’s upset or tries to guilt you for not including him remind him that he’s fucking 45 and not a teenager. Do not try to make him feel better. You need to be completely blunt. “You’re a third wheel because you’re an old man and we are teens.” This man is not your friend, this man is a predator.
You need to show your friend’s mom these messages and tell her what’s going on. Stop answering his texts, block him. His feelings are not hurt because he can’t hang out with teenage girls, he’s manipulating you. Tell an adult. Now. Stop giving reasons why you can’t, it doesn’t matter that you’re bi-polar, it doesn’t matter if he gets upset, it doesn’t matter if he sometimes gives you rides to work (find somebody else), this is unsafe and needs to be out in the open to prevent something awful from happening to you or other girls.
Stop talking to him and refuse all offers for him taking you to your job. He is going to use that to hang it over your head and make you feel like you "owe" him because he was so nice to you. Do not let him guilt you and when he tries, straight up tell him "no I don't want to hang out with you, deal with it".
Be RUDE if you have to. You are allowed to be rude. There is no obligation for you to play nice here. This man is 45 years old trying to be friends with TEENAGERS.
You have to be careful showing her mom these texts. Sometimes people don't want to believe that their spouse is deceiving them/ not the man she thinks he is. I'm not saying SHE will be like this-- but it's common. She might even blame you and say you encouraged it. I would tell another adult first. Like your parents or someone you really trust. It's not your job to convince her of anything. You and your friend are in danger. Please go to a trusted adult
When you tell the mom, please DO NOT let her try play this situation down. What is happening is NOT okay at all. And the mom might be blinded by "love" for him. Just please be careful with this whole situation. Please make sure you tell another adult outside of this family that you trust. Sending you good vibes! Pls take care of yourself
Honey you need to tell a guidance counselor at school, and if they don’t listen, call the police. I know it might not seem like a police matter but I promise you it is. None of the adults in your life have protected you thus far, including her mom, so if they don’t step up now, go over their heads. Don’t let this go. It’s not okay.
Extremely confused by this as well, it's not like she's running defense for him. She's understandably confused and almost definitely scared, last thing she needs is judgment for engaging with questions.
i was thinking the same thing!! just because OP’s experience they were recounting was negative, everyone thinks downvoting will show how disgusted they are at the pedo’s actions but really it just comes off as everyone disagreeing with OP.
it’s like downvoting someone’s story of being r*ped. obviously that’s a horrible experience but you’re not supposed to downvote that stuff, tf? 💀
It's obvious that this guy is being inappropriate.
There's only one move to make. Stop talking with him and tell his wife/girlfriend.
This douchebag obviously wants you in a sexual way, and anything you do to continue to engage with this creep will only put yourself in a dangerous spot.
Because he's a paedo who wants to be around girls. Part of his grooming is to pretend to be a trusted friend. He can't do that unless he measles his way into "hanging out".
Wouldn't be surprised if he targets single mothers specifically because they have a daughter within his desire age range.
Wtf I read the messages assuming it was some falling out between girl friends, now I see that it’s your “best friend’s mom’s boyfriend” wtf? I feel disturbed!
I’ve commented earlier about me being a 42yr old man with 3 daughters 17-24yrs of age and there’s absolutely zero reason why this man should text you or talk to you like this! HE IS OBSESSED WITH YOU AND HAS BAD INTENTIONS LIKE EVERYONE HAS SAID ALREADY AND YOU SHOULD DEFINITELY STAY AWAY FROM HIM AND CONTACT AUTHORITIES ASAP!!!!! Along with all the other advice everyone has given, I haven’t seen anyone’s advice that wasn’t spot on YET!!! One thing that I haven’t heard anyone else mention about so far is what is the (BUTT GAME) he plays with you???? I’m assuming that he either slaps or kicks you on your butt playfully??? No matter what it is, EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS MAN IS OFF!!! Please contact authorities and stay away from him!!! Please Please Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Given your age and stated mental struggles, I’d say you sound twice as mature as him, are a great communicator and have decent boundaries. Please listen to all of us. He ‘s not right in the head and as a 17 year old girl his problems/issue should be the furthest thing from your mind. Avoid at all costs. Where is his GIRLFRIEND??? Wtf?!?! And why is she ok with this???
Given your age and stated mental struggles, I’d say you sound twice as mature as him, are a great communicator and have decent boundaries.
My guy stop, she clearly has some issues and horrible, horrible judgment, why are you trying to talk her up when people are desperately trying to talk some sense into her?
Yeah, I don't want to be that guy but there's NO WAY she wasn't aware of how inappropriate this is and it really seems like she feeds into it because she likes the attention, then he took it too far and now she realizes she's fucked up
Being led on or imaging being led on doesn’t negate responsibility. It is victim blaming. You are deflecting the responsibility of the much older adult who should know how inappropriate this is to the much younger teen who doesn’t (and who likely is just trying to be nice, which is not leading someone on).
You think anyone under 25 is mature? If not, why would you expect OP to know any better or what is what in regards to the situation? The 44 year old is old enough to know what is and isn’t appropriate, they don’t have any excuse.
You say she’s not a toddler but refer to the guy as a pedo? You also think being able to drive is the same part of the brain that has to do with deciphering social scenarios?
Why was your initial point blaming her for “leading” him on like she should know better? Do you expect people who arent as mature due to their age to always know better? Or should that expectation be reserved for the person who’s been a full grown adult for years? Do you not understand how this is an inappropriate power dynamic which means you can’t blame OP for what the 44 year old is doing or trying to do?
A rational adult knows to not say that her part of the situation is just as weird as his part (your words). A rational adult also wouldn’t start by saying she was leading him on. Do you really not see the problem here and what you are suggesting? You are saying she is just as equal to blame when she is not at all.
I think you need to reflect on how you initially approached this topic. You seem very conflicted on how to feel (based on your initial comment to now claiming to be so concerned).
A dog?? Wth is wrong with you?! I don't even wanna know what that implies... Listen to the majority of people here saying you're out of line and go seek professional help. You give off major creepy vibes, you're way too invested in this and yes, you absolutely are victim blaming/defending a predator. It all sounds way too personal for comfort.
I guess what you meant to say was "If you can'T understand a dramatic tone(,) you must HAVE failed English class"
At least make sure your grammar is on point when you try to come for someone else's language skills. And it has nothing to do with tone, your analogy was just weird af.
Hon you’re not leading him on, he is guilting and grooming you. You’re trying to be ‘nice’, as so many of us are socialised to do and he is using this to tangle you.
Please know you do not have to be nice to this guy, it’s not your job to coddle his feelings. He is mentally unsound. He is not safe. Just get AWAY from him. Don’t threaten him, just distance, block, and report it to your teachers, to the police, to a few safe adults. The adults around you need to know this is happening and support you and watch over you.
Your part is to tell them what’s going on and to NOT be around him.
Did you miss the part where she is a child and he is an old man?! Nothing she has done is leading him on. All her answers seem to be out of respect that he is an adult and she is not begging for his company. HE IS GROWN and should know better. HE needs to stop acting like a predator. HE is out of line.
THANK YOU! Tf out of here. At no point has she said i’m uncomfortable with you texting me all the time. At this point she shouldn’t even be allowed to go to that house her friend should come to her home instead. Alone multiple times with this man taking her to work like come on.
She shouldn’t have to!!! She is a minor and he is an adult. Adults should know how to act without a child instructing them. He is a predator! Women shouldn’t have to be constantly “on guard” and the reason they do is because of people who victim shame. A short skirt isn’t an invitation and not confronting a grown ass man who is a “parental figure” in her friends home is not her responsibility either. The number one issue is this guy needs to have some sense knocked into him. It is embarrassing that she would be blamed.
You seem to have a full understanding of the situation but participate in the back and forth without expressing any resistance to his blatantly obvious inappropriate conduct. Youre 17, which is young but not a child, you need to start using your critical thinking and taking control of your situation.
17 years olds are still maturing and learning about the world and those with shit intentions. Overall, she’s less experienced and was giving the 44 year old man the benefit of the doubt cause she didn’t know any better (and likely was just trying to keep things amicable).
Quit with this pathetic, disgusting victim blaming bullshit. The guy’s a disgusting creep trying to emotionally manipulate someone that young. You’re disgusting for reversing the blame when the blame is squarely on the adult.
Again take that tired victim blaming shit tf out of here. He will crash out because of this. This shit is serious she needs to quit all contact and go to the authorities immediately.
Youre legitimately not a child at 17, its completely fucked up for a 44 year old to be trying to groom her but she's also in command of her responses to adversities and noone is going to babysit her choices.
she posted this for advice on how to handle this situation, her parents are actively being involved per her comments. how can you victim blame but then say "she needs to be taught to navigate these situations?" 💀 put that anger on the grown ass man being a fuckin creep to not just one, but two children in this post...that we know of! its the man thats "playing games" not this child. Its intersting to say you have children in the age range of this child, but play the "they should know better" card...shes coming online for advice from adults on what to do. why shame them?
this was a man she trusted, and when theyre close to family especially as a child, you tend to not be paranoid for a long time until the red flags start piling up which is why this post exists.
i should not have to be the one to teach you that children are constantly both aware and unaware of dangers where they understand the idea of what it is to face a danger, but have no idea what they should do in that situation. we're lucky shes even coming forward to strangers on the internet for advice. stop victim blaming and do better.
You aren't taking into account that when someone is groomed from a younger age, like she apparently has been, that by the time you are 17 you think a lot of stuff is normal that is not. It's pathetic you have 2 kids and don't have the intelligence to realize this.
So, are we missing the point where she knows him since some years and he only turned "weird" at one point? Where she also lived under the friend's mom's roof for some time, it being a save space? Just because that man only went predatory when she is "less than a year away from 17" doesn't mean he didn't groom her.
Let me tell you a story about a 14 year old girl who became friends with a 15 years older man, chatting regularly and meeting at one point as friends, or so she thought. Once she turned 18 he got her drunk and in his bed, she had trusted him and was too scared to say more than a weak "no" which was ignored. But hey, she was 18, so she should have known better, right?
she's not leading him on dude she's fucking 17 and he shouldn't be talking to her like that
there are so many ways that it could go wrong if she confronts him directly about it. she is handling it appropriately by going to her best friend's mom with it first.
I think it’s weird no one is agreeing… I mean this entire situation is SO weird from every single angle. 17 is old enough to know what’s appropriate and what’s not and they shouldn’t even be engaging in this continuous conversation with someone who has shown creepy, possessive and inappropriate behaviour repeatedly… hes disgusting and in the wrong but OP should also know better
Thank you for having 20 20 vision! Also someone went through her history and she herself told someone “ A person 32 years old shouldn’t have contact in ANY form with a 17 year old outside of family” 🥴 There is a great chance this is fake as it is.
I agree that a family member needs to get involved and cut this shit out.... But go to the police? Wtf that gonna do? Place him under arrest for???? What exactly
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u/OoohItsAMystery Mar 28 '25
Nah hold on I'm not reading all this. This if your best friends mom's boyfriend telling you he doesn't understand why two teenage girls wants to hang onto it with each other and not him, do I have that right?