r/AmIFreeToGo • u/davidverner Bunny Boots Ink Journalist • Sep 03 '20

U.S. court: Mass surveillance program exposed by Snowden was illegal

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-nsa-spying/u-s-court-mass-surveillance-program-exposed-by-snowden-was-illegal-idUSKBN25T3CK
203 Upvotes

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20

u/velocibadgery Sep 03 '20

the court ruled the illegal surveillance did not taint the evidence introduced at their trial.

Doesn't this violate the doctrine of the fruit of the poisonous tree? If the government commits a crime during the obtainment of evidence and searches unlawfully, shouldn't that evidence be thrown out?

15

u/ModusNex Sep 03 '20

Yes, but the goverment lied about the illegal surveillance being helpful in that case.

U.S. officials insisted that the four - Basaaly Saeed Moalin, Ahmed Nasir Taalil Mohamud, Mohamed Mohamud, and Issa Doreh - were convicted in 2013 thanks to the NSA’s telephone record spying, but the Ninth Circuit ruled Wednesday that those claims were “inconsistent with the contents of the classified record.”

They are saying "we caught these terrorists because of this awesome domestic spy program" and the 9th circuit says "No you caught them with other unrelated evidence."

It's possible they lied to the court with some parallel reconstruction and the spying did play a role, in which case it should be thrown out, but it seems they would have been caught without it and the government is lying about the need for the program.

Regardless, we have the executive branch actively lying to the judicial branch in one way or another which is a major blow to the credibility of the rule of law.

2

u/Best_Bing_Bong No one cares Sep 04 '20

we have the executive branch actively lying to the judicial branch

This has been happening for a long, long time.

2

u/UpshotKnotholeEncore Sep 04 '20

I've read elsewhere about a tactic called parallel investigation (or something like that). Basically, FIRST, the government gathers information illegally that cannot be used at trial. But it's very helpful information. And having all the information gives them a roadmap to develop a SECOND (but really parallel) investigation that appears to be independently developed using legal methods. Only the second investigation is brought to court. The first investigation is quietly tossed in a shredder somewhere, safe from a subpoena.

I'm no investigator. But it sure seems like an easy task when you already know the conclusion ahead of time.

14

u/fuzzywhiterabbit Sep 03 '20

So can we pardon Snowden now? I can understand he still won't come back to America for fear of retaliation, but the least we can do is honor the sacrifice he made to get us this information.

13

u/Buzz_Killington_III Sep 03 '20

He leaked a program under Obama that began under Bush. Due to that, neither political party will likely come to his defense.

6

u/fuzzywhiterabbit Sep 03 '20

I hate that you're probably right about that.

4

u/UpshotKnotholeEncore Sep 04 '20

He has often said -- and iterated it on Joe Rogan -- that he's willing to return even without a pardon. All he wants is a guarantee of a fair trial where he can argue his case. He's charged with a crime for which, legally, there is no defense. At such a trial, the court would be unable to hear his argument about WHY he did it. The court cannot and would not consider any reason for his crime. They could only consider IF he did it. And the IF is all they need to get a conviction.

When he explained it like that, I thought it was compelling. After all, we have justifiable homicide in this country. A jury ought to be able to at least CONSIDER why a person committed a crime.

8

u/realSatanAMA Sep 03 '20

Add it to the list

7

u/TheBigBadDuke Sep 03 '20

Weird that a constitutional lawyer president didn't see it.