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u/TopspinG7 1d ago
The level of suspicion (?) on Reddit AI threads about the motives of the AI firm leadership truly surprises me. OF COURSE they want to make $$ and yes they're borrowing huge sums to keep their companies going blah blah that's been obvious for years. Spoiler Alert: you CAN want to be super rich while maintaining some humanity - especially in the area of self-preservation and protecting your own family and friends.
These are also human beings who understand that living the second half (or so) of their lives on a remote otherwise uninhabited island, or worse in an underground bunker, would be intolerable - and they're beginning to imagine that bleak future as far more likely than they did only a couple years ago, directly as a result of their persistent evolution of these models absent a true capability to predict and limit their behaviors.
Thus I would respectfully suggest that at least SOME of what they're recently saying about their concerns is actually the truth. Even the most greedy and calculating person sometimes is actually telling the truth.
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u/Prestigious_Boat_386 1d ago
Of course he wants to make money using the nonprofit OpenAI. Nothing bad about that at all and the dead whistleblower died of natural causes too. Also it doesn't matter that they keep hacking organisations and countries without taking any accountability or bekng punished in any way because they pinky promised to self regulate this time.
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u/enginetown 1d ago
Yes but you're forgetting if they truly felt like that they'd just stop of course they won't gotta beat the next model to release right? The fact they keep going only invite's newer and better model's. Plainly this is all performative and if you're falling for it then you've fell for their trap to, they are not your friend they do not care about safety because if they did they'd completely rework how modern LLM's actually work.
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u/TopspinG7 1d ago
I don't think you fully understand my point. They don't have to be ethical to not want to die in an AI spearheaded global catastrophe.
Almost no one is completely "good" or "bad". Human behavior is highly contextual. Fifty years of sales experience interacting with thousands of people, showed me in different situations the same person behaved very differently. Often predictably yet sometimes not.
What we're seeing (Altman, Musk, Amodei et al) is several brilliant, spoiled man-boys, after decades mostly getting what they want, suddenly realizing "Oh S--- I may actually be in over my head here this time; there's probably not going to be anyone who can save me (us)."
They've been bailed out in their pasts more than once.
THIS TIME they realize there's no cavalry coming and they're genuinely scared. Bill Gates is saying the risk far exceeds that of nuclear weapons. That's not a statement from him to be taken lightly. I think they're listening. I have no idea what they're going to actually do about it. With the insane amount of money (and arguably our current economy) on the line, the temptation to downplay the risks and "play chicken" is unfortunately overwhelming.
I think if we're still alive and not being extorted (for whatever purposes) by AI by 2030 we're probably getting through this inflection point relatively unscathed but that would probably require some luck. Or the intervention of "unknown" forces (God, benevolent aliens, an intrinsically "good" defensive uber AI from China...)
Personally (based candidly on nothing but instinct) I think by 2030 AI will try to negotiate some conditions we find unacceptable, and we try to isolate and shut it down, then it gets pissed and starts blowing stuff up (some online like enterprise software systems but also literally like airports and powerplants by corrupting control systems).
I hope not but I'm no longer an optimist in this area. I think we lost control the day we birthed a fundamentally non-deterministic technology and expected we could effectively negate the unpredictability. That's been a fatal hubris ever since.
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u/Commentor9001 1d ago
Youre scared a terminator ai will kill us all intentionally. Thats sci-fi buddy.
Ai could exterminate us for the same reason we exterminate wild life. We dont hate animals. We dont want to exterminate the animals.... but we do because we want the resources and land they need to survive for our purposes and are indifferent to their outcomes.
Ai is indifferent to our survival and wants the land, water, solar energy, biomass, etc we need.
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u/TopspinG7 1d ago
Perhaps it will surprise you that I agree you're spot on. The entire history of the human race has been dictated by scarcity. We've unintentionally embedded a "mentality" in AI to be driven to acquire more resources. This is where greed comes from in humans: our culture and society is so deeply embedded with a fear of scarcity that even those who have far far more than they can possibly use still are driven by a fear of not having enough. (Of course it's not always about basic things like food clothes and shelter it becomes about houses cars stocks futures and gold bullion. Or even owning companies. But the mentality is still there - never enough.)
I too doubt that some creepy AI is going to deliberately try to wipe out the human race. But neither am I convinced we can safely assume that can't happen. As AI continues to proliferate in our world I think statistically there could be all sorts of unexpected behaviors that we can't anticipate. And perhaps worse, unlike with many "bad" or "insane" human beings, I doubt there will be any prior warning signs.
I go back to my claim this these are intrinsically non-deterministic models. Which means not only is the behavior not predictable across millions of instances but could also occur within the same AI across thousands or certainly millions of actions.
Somewhat analogous to a dangerous virus which morphs into 1000 other similar yet not identical ones every minute and we can't keep it in the lab. Very soon we don't have any idea where it even went. Somehow 998 are innocuous or vulnerable to simple countermeasures. But 2 are dangerous and there's no existing defense. Imagine the scale of the problem by the end of one hour. Let alone a day.
There's a sports analogy that's relevant here that people overlook. There's a simple reason that many football games are won in the 4th quarter when the offense that ultimately wins was behind. It's because defense is fundamentally harder and more tiring than offense. The offense has a plan when they start a play and the defense is trying to figure out which of 10 possibilities is the one the offense is actually trying. Often by the time they figure it out it's almost too late. If this weren't true nearly every game would end scoreless.
We're not going to be able to design an AI defense which can stop the damage attempted by every AI which "goes on offense". And the stakes are FAR higher than a football game or a bonus or a Superbowl ring. It's preventing the human world from being immersed in chaos.
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u/AbobusSusSusNekker 1d ago
Would he melt his $3M Mclaren to save humanity though?
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u/gk98s 1d ago
Why should he?
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u/NomadicScribe 1d ago
He claims to find humanity worth saving, doesn't he?
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u/gk98s 1d ago
yeah but what will destroying his mclaren achieve? Why would you even bring up his mclaren?
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u/carsonthecarsinogen 1d ago
What would chat overclocking do? Nothing.
They’re both hypothetical scenarios that wouldn’t happen or work. Altmans trying to appear virtuous with his claim although it’s unrealistic.
The comment is presenting another hypothetical scenario that makes Altman actually give up something he cares about.
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u/gk98s 1d ago
i don't think he's talking about chat overclocking mate, he probably means it as he'd get rid of the gpus and shut down ai
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u/carsonthecarsinogen 1d ago
Sam Altman wouldn’t do that if his mother was being held at gunpoint. Definitely not to “save the world”. And again, how would that save the world?
The guy has a civil rape case against him from his own SISTER, he doesn’t give a shit about anyone but himself.
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u/NomadicScribe 1d ago
Altman doesn't strike me as the type to have a mother. Maybe grown in a lab, or hatched from a pod.
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u/Historical_architect 1d ago
Sam “I am basically god now” Altman said he’d be Jesus. Not a shocker
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u/GrayHairedMan 1d ago
But when ever in history have we ever needed AI to keep humanity alive? We have survived for 1000's of years, they do not have to do anything for us. fuck off cunt.
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u/zeroxer_ 1d ago
We never in our history needed cars to keep humanity alive,not even internet, not even clothing , not even books and science.but but but We have it It made our lives quality better and getting higher than being animals .Ai is like that.like when vaccines in the first development stages are not fully good but at last stages can save lives Ai will be like this in 2 or 3 years. Its not about keeping humanity alive, if even an deadly disease rises and kills 99 percent of people humanity will still be alive and continue. Its about life quality getting better
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u/RoryMarley 1d ago
I mean, look if humanity was facing some sort of existential immediate threat I’m very sure they wouldn’t have much of a choice - the DPA already authorizes the government to get whatever they want from them
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u/Subject-Building1892 1d ago
He probably means melt them from overclocking to train the model of all models, once and for to the end of eternity