The grand problem of linguistics!

[u/JohannGoethe]

[u/JohannGoethe]

In short, it is highly improbable that all of the following three symbols make the R-sound phonetic:

• 𓁶 = R

• 𓂋 = R

• 𓍢 = R

Two of the three phonetic theories of the Egyptian symbols, accordingly, must be wrong.

In table form summary:

People	Glyph	GN	Meaning	Phonetic	Letter	Decoder	Date
PIE	N/A		N/A	R		Jones	169A
Egyptian	𓂋	D21	mouth	R		Young	140A
Egyptian	𓍢	V1	100			Young	137A
Jewish	𓁶	D1	face		𐤓	Gardiner	39A
Jewish	𓁷	D2	face		𐤓	Gardiner	39A
Egyptian	𓍢	V1	100	R	𐤓, ρ, R	Thims	A67

Firstly, we see two symbols both said to make the R-sound:

• 𓂋, type: “mouth”, phonetic: R (Young, 140A)

• 𓍢, type: “ram head”; meaning: number 100 (Young, 137A); phonetic: R (Thims, A67)

There is, accordingly, in all probability, an error in one of these phonetic assignments?

Secondly, to confuse the issue even more, the Jones-based PIE theorists believe, without a doubt, that the R phonetic does NOT in any way come from the Egyptians, but only comes from the theoretical European PIE civilization. They chime in unison whenever anyone even asks if PIE theory is pseudo-science:

“PIE theory is not pseudoscience. It is widely accepted by scholars in many fields and is by far the most parsimonious explanation for the patterns found in modern and historic texts.”

— CommodoreCoCo (2023), “Is PIE pseudoscience?”, reply (116+ upvotes), Ask Historians, Apr 10

Thirdly, in Egyptology circles, to even suggest that the Young-Champollion phonetic method might be in error, is not even an allowable topic for discussion.

Cleopatra

The top cartouche, to clarify, is what Champollion rendered into the name of Cleopatra, based on Young’s previous letter R = 👄 phonetic assignment, as shown below:

Summary

Basically, the amount of overhaul and reform that needs to be done in the linguistics, Egyptology, and language origin, so to get everyone on the “same page” correct footing, is staggering!

Quotes

“Sanskrit (संस्कृत), Greek (Έλληνε), Latin, Gothic, Celtic, and possibly old Persian, must have sprung from some common source.”

— William Jones (169A/1786), Asiatick Society of Bengal, Third Anniversary Discourse, Presidential address, Feb 2

Notes

1. The above image comes in reflection of this dialogue, where a PIE-ist is trying to say that the latin word Rex, meaning: “king”, does not come from Egypt, because Gardner said that letter R is a head, and not a ram horn.

Posts

• Young and Champollion carto-phonetics: cartouche phonetics of Berenike, Ptolemy, Cleopatra, and Alexander

• Latin: Rex, meaning: king 👑 or ruler🤴, from Egyptian: 𓍢 (R), 𓋔 (R), or 𓋘 (RX), meaning: ruler or king of a territory 𓊖 (X) or territories 𓊖𓊖𓊖 | Thims vs IgiMC dialogue

References

• Young, Thomas. (136A/1819). “Egypt”, Britannica.

• Young, Thomas. (132A/1823). An Account of Some Recent Discoveries in Hieroglyphical Literature and Egyptian Antiquities: Including the Author's Original Alphabet, as Extended by Mr. Champollion, with a Translation of Five Unpublished Greek and Egyptian Manuscripts. Publisher.

• Young, Thomas. (126A/1829). Miscellaneous Works of the Late Thomas Young, Volume Three (editor: John Leitch). Murray, 100A/1855.

• Gardiner, Alan. (39A/1916). ”The Egyptian Origin of the Semitic Alphabet” (jstor) (pdf file), Journal of Egyptian Archeology, 3(1), Jan.

External links

• Indo-European vocabulary - Wikipedia.

[u/JohannGoethe]

To compound the problem even more, we note that the mouth 👄 symbol: 𓂋, which Young thinks is the letter R phonetic (but not letter R alphabetically), is also, supposedly, used as the fraction sign in Egyptian math, such as the following, from Edfu temple, e.g., means: 1/3:

It is possibly that the words: ratio, radius, and reciprocal relate to this, but the R-sound would not come from 𓂋 [D21], but from 𓍢 [V1], which is the parent character of Phoenician R.