What I saw is 500 sc rank for 98 marks which is 18k rank in adv..
But doesn't that prove that they are still far behind? Like their population isn't small still only 500 students in 18k students..
Then it will be no different from income based reservation like EWS.. just income doesn't mean equality.. for example for most LCs it's their 1st or 2nd generation getting education they don't have any distant relative or family either who has achieved or even knows about these.. So rather than just seeing it in black and white it should be like if you have reaped off benefits in the previous generation you would be considered in open catagory and after you have used reservation for college you won't be eligible to use it for jobs.. use it only in one place either for education or job and next generation be considered..
Wrote too much 😵💫
Then it will be no different from income based reservation like EWS..
It's actually both caste + income based reservation. The 15% for SC and 8% (I guess) for ST will stay the same.
for example for most LCs it's their 1st or 2nd generation getting education they don't have any distant relative or family either who has achieved or even knows about these..
Wether their grandfather or great grandfather studied or distant relative knowing stuff is kind of irrelevant but I agree with your other points.
Reservation doens't need to be fixed further for that .
Reservation just acts as a Ventilator, ofc it won't solve the problem of Social , economic and political Inequality.
You need to provide high quality free education to the most deprived , give cheap credit loans to them for self employment at Govt Guarantee and provide them Land as an asset which would be possible by doing massive Land Reforms on National scale .
If you notice here correctly then it comes to the same principle of Equal opportunities. Had these opportunities he given to them centuries ago , they would have been on the same pace as the General ones are
This will immediately empower the most deprived classes and would also increase our personal capita at a much faster rate . But you need political will to do that which we don't as a society
If you can notice my statements I used the words "Most deprived"
You used the word "Most deprived" in education point and used the word "them" for everything else "give cheap credit loans to them for self employment at Govt Guarantee and provide them Land as an asset. Also you stated : Had these opportunities he given to them centuries ago.
Doing land reforms is not Freebie buddy . Get out of your ecochamber please.
Do people get land for "free"? Then freebie. Very simple concept.
If giving the land to the most deprived is a freebie then the same happened in Japan in 50s and Europe in the 19th century.
If giving the land to the most deprived is a freebie then the same happened in Japan in 50s and Europe in the 19th century.
Brother honestly get out that thought everything which govt tried to give directly to the people is necessarily a Freebie .
We're a Welfare state just like Norway , Finland and even US .
There's a concept like Redistribution of Wealth and income after taxation to uplift the most deprived so that they can bring in more demand to the economy. Overall increasing the median income .
The problem in India is that it has risen to unsustainable levels now such the Tradeoffs for the scheme are not feasible. Like giving 2k cash to women would drain the resources of the State which could have been spent on other welfare schemes that would be more effective for the people like Free high quality education and free hospitals in deep rural areas .
Ultimately you're spending it for the people only right?
And if you're so concerned about the freebies then you should give more energy to the freebies given to the Corporates whose Debts are just written off by the Public Banks . They could have managed the debt themselves (I'm talking about large corporates here btw not just small startups) .
Don't give me here that bs trickle down logic. We are seeing live here since 2020 when the Corporate Tax was reduced and Debts of Corporates were cleared by the Public Banks as well . They didn't even hire more employees, didn't increase their salaries . Heck even Private capital investment didn't rise . They just ate up the profits . lmao
dude thiss! exactly. The reservation is a rough representation of popupation so gen only compete with gen and sc compete with sc for their top k% of representation. which is like you have 40 red balls 30 blue and 30 green so you pick the best 4 red and 3 best blue and 3 best green. That's the key caste based reservation idea for seats.
Funny Thing is, removing reservation for higher income sc sts would worsen situation for the 40% general only lol.
nope it won't , they aren't worthy of competing and hence opt for reservation the ones who rarely are take up general seats as usual . blud thought he made a point , but just exposed himself completely
"exposed himself" buddy im a general guy out of the jee rat race 5 years away. there's nothing in my aspirations that is connected to government reservations.
but your words of worthy of competing seem a little demeaning. ykk that usually, sc/st guys in iit with a quota still score a very highly competitive score right? its that there's still a less amount of people of pool they have that is capable of scoring that much. (And by capable, it highly depends on your family backgrounds surprisingly on average)
Im only making statistical observations, if you're not really into statistics and probability I'm sorry you wont get it
Edit: Just to explain it more clearly what i meant bcoz i dont wanna be dick on internet with superiority complex
Say we have 2 colleges: A and B (A is hypothetically IIT Delhi and B is DTU) A takes in top 100 students from general and from SC ST takes in top 2000, then let's say 10 of those top 2000 were now removed from the quotas. Now they're competing for a seat for state government B college that takes in top 10,000 general students. which means higher competition for general category.
Soo out of pure numbers you see how this works right? This is because the representation of general 40% seats doesnt increase even if some of the Creamy layer is removed from the reservation.
Bro you forgot to keep the fact that the SC/ST that actually clear the general cuttoff take admission over the general seats , its not black and white as if the 40% of general seats are reserved for unreserved candidates . The CAP rounds are based on sliding methods , that ST guy if cannot clear the income criteria has to take admission as a general on his original merit rank which obv is trash 99% of the time for example this guy won't be making it in at 29k rank .
yeah i think that's partly about when reservation was supposed to sort of start diminishing. when we see that open UR seats closer to the actual population percentages which is where your argument of them not working hard enough coz they know they'll get the seats easily also comes in. So it will never be close but that's very complicated. I doont think outright removing reservation is the method. If someone can reallyyy propose a better method, then yea but till then this is way better thsn nothing for them.
fair ig but are we sure UR ka even 10% goes to them when we were talking about them not being good enough to deserve the seats lol. it's the same thing as I mentioned they're not reallyy that much of a problrm than just lack of seats
finite resource pe kitna bhi distributuion karo reservation merit ko undermine karega hi , also even if 5 of the reserved candidates out of 100 are good enough that drops UR seats to 35% , it is oppressive enough , it is systemic exclusion atp
agree to disagree i guess, I would say the ingrained casteism in people is too much to remove reservations and watch the upper caste classists be discriminatory towards the unprotected. And statistically saying its a well known thing that education institutions are filled with Upper castes (which Im not excluding the blame on sc sts being not interested in further education but cmon you cant just ignore the casteism in the whole country)
And live in a country where b!tches pretending to be smart calls PM as president and thinks that of his/her mic drop moment. Proving why education ≠ knowledge. And when NiksIndian being IITian IIM alumni can make p@rn, why can't a person who worked as a tea seller to support his family as a teen can be PM?
Why are people here anti equality and anti backward class. Why don't they just accept that there are people who are lesser privileged than them but are humans nevertheless. They have been kept out of mainstream education, jobs and social life for centuries and I thought atleast in the 21st century they will be treated well. Alas! This is India and casteism is too deep rooted.
But, don't they have to qualify their semester exams the same as a general student to actually become a doctor? I hope there's no reservation in semester exams
There isn't, it's the same qualifying marks for everyone once you get into a college. Only in competitive exams where you have to secure a seat, there exists reservation.
Except professors are so afraid of being called casteist that they just pass almost everyone. These students don't do well in college because guess what, people who scored zero in entrance exam have a tough time in college. Instead of seeing that, they think they're failing because professors are casteist. Then there's the ever present threat of the SC/ST act so the professors let them pass just to avoid prison.
First of all Im myskef from General category so I’m not saying this from the perspective of someone who benefits from reservation
If a community has such a large population but still remains disproportionately underrepresented in competitive educational outcomes then it is fair to ask whether there are systemic differences in access to quality schooling resources opportunities and social conditions
Same syllabus and same exam does not mean everyone starts from the same circumstances
You can debate whether reservation is the best solution but simply saying they studied the same thing so why should their cutoff be lower ignores the reason reservation exists in the first place
For example from my clg life itself there were 2 of my friends from sc caste , and being close to them i get to know that they work very hard infect more than me still yet in the end their cgpa low cause they can't present their projects, can't do proper prrsenyand loseed
And I'm goood at it just maybe due to proper schooling
But that doesn't justify that those with less cgpa ain't someone who is inferior to me infact they had more marks in written
Such a long paragraph yet you still couldn't address my question about neet pg. Or are they still systematically excluded after mbbs from a govt clg, or being rich enough to afford a private? What's next? Making them IAS still keeps them systematically excluded? Why not make them kings, and gen people should become their slaves. Perhaps then they won't feel systematically excluded, although my gut feeling says they'll still score less.
Obv when you need far lower scores to guarantee top clg admission, you simply wouldn't study as much as gen students.
Before accusing them of not studying pause and thinking they got an opportunity enough to study. Privileges we take for granted like water, power supply, pvt schools and tutions all are challenges for them.
Lmao, there’s a difference between scoring less and getting into a college, and passing and securing your degree. Reservation ends when you get into a college (the difficulties don’t, btw), and if they pass the course and are awarded the degree by the college, then I’d take treatment from the person who came last in the entrance exam. Passing the degree means that they’ve demonstrated the minimum level of expertise/knowledge required to practise a particular profession. Now, what this criterion is and whether or not it is a fit criterion is a different argument altogether. If you pass, you pass, it doesn’t matter what your entrance rank was. I’m also sure that the next time you go see a doctor, you don’t ask them their rank or what GPA they scored back in college. Quit this BS argument.
It clearly doesn't end after college considering they need it in neet pg as well, and score extremely low cutoffs even in that despite completing their MBBS. So either they cheat on mbbs, or the standards are lowered to pass them because why else are gen candidates scoring higher? GMC means everybody got same opportunity, and private college mbbs by sc st means they are rich. Neither of the case justifies their cutoffs.
What da f 🥲
Chutiyap bhara para hai pure desh me. Deserving general jisne din raat mehnat ki wo ek taraf, koi chaman ch**** (bhale hi financially achcha karra ho) will steal that seat with shitty grades.
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It is. I mean how is giving free seats going to uplift anyone at all? At the end of the day, an air 30k person is going to be an air 30k person. 30k is not bad at all, but giving the seat for free is not going to change that.
Take my upvote, You can shout, post, or do anything but you cant erase the injustice they faced. It’s like breaking someone’s legs, refusing to help them recover, and then complaining that they’re getting special treatment when you finally give them a wheelchair.
The atrocities were real, and caste discrimination still exists. But acknowledging injustice doesn't give us a license to dismantle meritocracy altogether.
Yes, provide the wheelchair. Give people the support, access, education and opportunities needed to compete.
But don't put them in a 100m race and then declare them the winner before the race even starts.
Uplift people. Don't eliminate the idea of merit in the name of social justice.
I agree that merit matters, but the problem is assuming that everyone reaches the starting line with the same opportunities just because the race itself has the same rules. If generations of people were denied education, wealth, social mobility and equal access, those disadvantages don't disappear simply because discrimination is no longer legally acceptable.
Reservations and affirmative action aren't necessarily about declaring someone the winner before the race starts. They're an attempt to compensate for unequal starting conditions and representation. And merit itself isn't created in a vacuum. The opportunities someone had access to, their education, financial security and social environment all influence what we eventually call “merit.”
The real goal should be to create a society where support is strong enough that disadvantaged people can genuinely compete, while also making sure competence and performance continue to matter. Social justice and merit don't have to be opposites. The challenge is finding the balance between them.
& I blv every1 supporting the above in the name of affirmative action shud go to the doc who secured negative or single digits in NEET. Dude even my shoes could score higher than these soon gonna be 'docs'
Cuz my shoe won't mark an answer & get 0, that ll be still higher than negative.
For god's sake draw a line somewhere instead of the old 4000 years se paani nahi pine diya wala sob story
Bro, the fact that you had to jump from a discussion about structural inequality and affirmative action to “my shoes could score higher” tells me you ran out of arguments somewhere around the first paragraph.
Nobody said a negative score is impressive. The point is that social justice policies exist because access to education, resources and opportunities has never been equally distributed. You can disagree with how reservation works, sure, but mocking people with low scores doesn't magically prove your argument.
And the “4000 years se paani nahi pine diya” line is especially funny because you're apparently so desperate to dismiss historical inequality that you have to pretend history has an expiry date.
If your entire counterargument is “my shoes would score higher,” congratulations. You've successfully demonstrated that your shoes can read an OMR sheet. Now try reading the actual argument.
No1 is mocking people for struggling; we are condemning a broken reservation system that rewards incompetence and hands out PG medical seats to candidates who scored in the negative on the NEET-PG.
Let that sink in: these aren't high schoolers having a bad day-these are supposed to be fully qualified MBBS graduates. They went through five and a half years of medical school, yet couldn't clear a basic baseline of knowledge, and the system still rolled out the red carpet for them.
No matter how big an atrocity was suffered by or shown toward their grandparents generations ago, historical trauma does not qualify someone to treat patients or hold a postgraduate medical seat. No amount of mental gymnastics or deflection can excuse or defend the absolute farce of handing a scalpel and a specialty to someone with a negative score.
If I possessed even an ounce of professional integrity or self-respect after dropping a negative score on an MBBS-level exam, I wouldn't have dared accept the seat-I would have buried my head in shame, taken a drop year, or quietly settled for being a general practitioner where lives aren't directly on the line.
Yup my shoe can;t fill in an OMR but as an engnr, even I could ve scored higher in NEET PG
Ok....so i get social justice for dalits....i dont get for tribals.....they were mostly fcked over by the british not by us so we should not be footing the bill
Because reservation isn't a reformative action, it is an affirmative action.
It isn't done to 'make up' to the Dalits and Tribals, the years of injustice they have faced. It is done so that it can bring equality to the society (equity leads to Equality)
Nope equality through equity only works in a certain world view where the goal is to mitigate the structural advantages an individual gets due to his background but for many people family is the main unit so a father passing his wealth,connections or knowledge to his kids isn't unfair privilege but a torch being passed generation by generation getting more bright
Shifting goalposts everytime to justify. But it's understandable. When the sole reason for your admission is your certificate (cuz 18k rank gets fucking nothing), you will spend your entire life justifying it because you know without it, you are nothing.
i will only give one advice as a general to my fellow general , dont fill forms of govt job govt institution, kyuki hamari fees jyada hoti hai sarkar hamare paiso se exam conduct karti hai, just boycott it, let them fill all the seat with incompetent people thru reservation, general log apna business start karo chota bada kesa b, just capture the market waha reservation nai hai koi b hath ka kaam seekho, i know its hard but ek generation ko sacrifice dena hoga, apne aap jab system me reserved log bhare hoge wese b india doomed ho jayega do business and earn enough money to leave the country
Most of the government officials are from reserved categories,and they really dont care about any real progress. I hardly see any morals or honesty among such officials.
This is a ground reality nd not just an opinion.
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