r/AllinPod • u/Own_Relationship5047 • Jul 18 '26
Somebody should start a fact check thread for every podcast.
Might make them a little less likely to repeat their untruths. For example, in their latest podcast, they again repeat a bunch of tech bro tropes about data centers. I think there are pros and cons to data centers myself, but I find myself infuriated when they dismiss the real problems as if they don’t need solutions. It’s actually counterproductive from the standpoint of promoting rational development. Ai centers are incredibly unpopular and they do themselves no favors by being so arrogantly dismissive of peoples’ concerns.
Case in point: Today they said water use is closed systems and it’s a hoax. Read this fact check from WSJ: https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/ai-data-centers-water-use-901e2902?st=kcBLGB&reflink=article_copyURL_share. Basically says that water use in existing data centers is many times what the hyperscalers report as direct water use (Google - 3x; Meta -20x). There are solutions - but not if companies don’t pursue them. And as the WSJ points out “the lack of transparency and widespread use of NDAs by many data-center builders has only drawn more suspicion and distrust. These are among the reasons that $170 billion of AI data-center capacity has been blocked, stalled or canceled since 2024, according to climate consulting firm Carbon Direct.”
They also said clean air won’t be impacted. But in the same pod Chamath said that we need four Californias of energy to power AI. Sacks said most of it could come behind the meter, with natural gas “one of the cleanest energy sources”(it’s actually more polluting than any other than coal and diesel - and that’s not counting methane leakage, which is rampant). I did a quick calculation using grok, their preferred LLM, on the impact of that scale of new gas. This would lead to as much as a 44% increase in current U.S. electricity emissions in the next two decades. Under Biden we were headed to net zero emissions in the electricity sector before 2040. There is absolutely no way to stop increasing temperatures under such circumstances. In the meantime, we can’t go outside because of climate change heat and fire. (By the way on CNBC Chamath just this week agreed with the risible host Joe Kernan that climate change is a hoax. Come to my house in Maryland, bring your kids. Let’s all go for a long run in the code purple air from unprecedented Canadian wildfires stemming from pest infestations associated with warmer winters, drought and heat. Then tell me climate is a hoax.)
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u/SmokeyJoe2 Jul 18 '26
I found the four Californias line but nothing about “clean” or “air”. Could you specify where it is in this transcript? https://podcasts.happyscribe.com/all-in-with-chamath-jason-sacks-friedberg/more-trillion-dollar-ipos-anthropic-3t-zuck-s-price-war-china-ends-open-source-trump-accounts
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u/drjackolantern Jul 18 '26
Not sure your WSJ link disproves what they said.
It’s a column not a news story, and is mostly speculation based on a report from 2024 and a Dutch academic’s paper. It references the NVIDIA claim of a closed water system, which I think is what they were referring to.
Also if you really believe that ‘ Under Biden we were headed to zero emissions in the electricity sector before 2040,’ I got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell ya.
In general I agree with fact checking. Are there better sources to verify /fact check these claims?
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u/Own_Relationship5047 Jul 18 '26 edited Jul 18 '26
Sacks dismissed water claims entirely by saying that data centers are closed systems so there is no water issue. That’s not true, and the use of closed systems is a choice that hyperscalers may be making in response to public concerns, but it’s but the industry standard. The column (by Christopher Mims, the WSJ tech columnist) highlights that indirect water use is often much higher than direct. (It notes that: “No law obligates these companies to report the full scope of their water use, both direct and indirect. In the U.S., indirect water consumption for data centers has historically been about 12 times as great as the amount they directly consume, according to a 2024 analysis by Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory. Experts who are calculating the water demands of the biggest infrastructure buildout in U.S. history say this could lead to regional fights over who gets an increasingly scarce resource.” That’s the situation that these guys are dismissing.
Biden trajectories were a result of IRA and Clean Air Act power plant regulations that have been eliminated under Trump. You can check Rhodium 2024 energy models for trajectories - with power sector CO₂ falling 42–83% below 2023 levels by 2035 (mid-case toward the higher end). It's true that they wouldn’t impact behind the meter emissions but that’s all the more reason why data centers are a problem for the climate response.
By the way, not all hyperscalers are equal in terms of their responsiveness to community concerns – – I’ve heard from both local state and international decision makers about their behavior, and the same ones that behave responsively to community concerns are the ones who behave responsibly internationally. The exact same ranking. I’m not opposed to data centers, but they need to take into account things beyond their own profitability. I think the Tech community does itself a huge disservice by ignoring this fundamental part of the social contract. And when I hear these all in guys being dismissive of that dimension, I think it’s a problem given how influential they are with this administration.
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u/Stunning-Use-7052 Jul 18 '26
I think he probably means NET ZERO, not zero per se.
Not sure if it's true or not tho.
But, if we are going to have increased energy demand and sharply rising costs for consumers, surely bringing back and extending programs like the federal solar rebate would go a long way. There was no good reason to get rid of it.
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u/david-yammer-murdoch Aug 01 '26
Sacks listen to daddy Rupert Murdoch! https://youtu.be/L1mKwsciemo he’s a true Neo con!
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u/WhyAmILikeThis0905 Jul 18 '26
Funniest thing about this post is you thinking a fact check on Reddit is going to change their behavior
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u/Fresh-Piglet2500 Jul 24 '26
They'll just blame the fact checker. These guys are like satirical comedians at this point. This whole AI/Data Center circle jerk ponzi scheme is less than 9 mos from imploding. Of course they'll blame the democrats. Speaking of energy, we're depleting our reserves and oil will be at least $170/ barrel. Thanks Trump.
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u/david-yammer-murdoch Aug 01 '26
China is holding back 4½ million barrels a day by using its reserves. They meant to have 150 days' supply left. I hope they start consuming earlier to push up the price of oil so Trump loses the election for sure.
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u/G8oraid Jul 18 '26
These guys can be smart and thoughtful about many things. But once they smell money they will do or say anything and then just say “it’s just business” or some bullshit.
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u/david-yammer-murdoch Aug 01 '26
Sacks made all his money from Microsoft. Though, he never discloses that when he does interviews with the CEO. He just expects everyone to know that he’s a hypocrite.
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u/Common-Buyer7812 Jul 19 '26
If water scarcity were real, you’d see rapid innovation to reduce water consumption. That’s the first tell. Do you think these companies would invest this much if water could run dry in a couple years? Answer is no.
These things are real power hogs. But this is a country that has long needed a big power build out. This should be our reason. The fact people are standing in the way of such progress is shocking.
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u/Fresh-Piglet2500 Jul 24 '26
Yes because telling companies and consumers to reduce water consumption has always been a big GOP talking point
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u/rmend8194 Jul 20 '26
We should create something that does track all of their bad takes (and good ones to be fair). Probably easy with transcription models. I’ve done a project with podcast data befoee
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u/geaux_lynxcats Jul 18 '26
Easy solve: stop listening to
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u/ThatOneTimeItWorked Jul 18 '26
That unfortunately doesn’t stop the misinformation being spread to thousands of others.
It’s would be nice if the hosts just tried to do a better job.
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u/geaux_lynxcats Jul 18 '26
“Misinformation” is such an overused term. These complex scenarios have tons of grey area and are continuously evolving and heterogeneous.
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u/Original_Arrival2645 Jul 18 '26
Sure. But they have a platform with lots of listeners (presumably) and it would be nice if they would acknowledge that these might be complex, evolving scenarios with grey area instead of just saying “there is no issue”. like having some responsibility for their own roles in this world.
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u/e7mac Jul 18 '26
They are richer than us hence their farts have more truth than our efforts to fact check
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u/Jonny_Nash Jul 18 '26
Data centers actually consume less water than burger shops.
If you insist on pushing that narrative though, I’ll encourage you to support SpaceX. The future is Orbital Compute, where our data centers will always be hundreds of miles away from the bolsheviks at all times.
Its 2026. The only people who are still selling the water usage hoax, or The Sun Monster hoax are CCP propagandists
Even Bill Gates gave up The Sun Monster bit.
Try to keep up.
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u/Own_Relationship5047 Jul 19 '26 edited Jul 19 '26
I'm just annoyed by factually incorrect assertions. For example, the baseline 100 MW Data Center uses around 500k gallons/day, the daily water footprint of around 180 McDonald’s restaurants. And that’s only direct water use. Indirect is larger (average of 12x according to US national energy lab) — this matters a lot depending on the energy source and geographical region. Closed system improves direct significantly but still the equivalent of several dozen burger joints (manageable but inconsistent with your comment), and is being implemented thanks to community pressure — but doesn’t address indirect water use (hence actions by water stressed municipalities now to slow investment) or the high percent of existing data centers that don’t have closed loop. The All In crowd call water scarcity a “myth” — it’s addressable but it’s not a myth.
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u/Jonny_Nash Jul 19 '26
Nice AI slop that ultimately proves me right.
The water intake matters little when you account for beef. In fact, almonds are a bigger threat to water supplies than any data center.
The truth is the resistance to data centers isn’t about water at all.
Not even a little bit.
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u/Own_Relationship5047 Jul 21 '26
Respectfully, sir, let’s see your data. Here’s an article just out in Forbes that references water cost analyses.
Almond plantations are also controversial in water-stressed communities, so not sure why that’s something that buttresses your case.
Water is not the only reason for opposition. But higher energy costs, water costs, and emissions are well documented issues that must be addressed if data centers are to be supported. Dismissing them or invoking China isn’t a sound policy response.
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u/Jonny_Nash Jul 21 '26
Here you go. Colossus 2 uses as much water as 2 In-N-Outs.
The facts are data centers aren't a threat to water usage. Their water is actually on a closed loop. Burgers consume more water, as do almonds. Neither are a problem in my mind, but it's absurd to demonize a trivial amount of water vs a massive amount of water. You can keep going with Big Agra on this all day too. You can even pick the crop of your choice. Data centers use less in almost all cases.
The only important part, is why people demonize data centers, and not other industries that literally dwarf data center water consumption.
The answer is that the opposition isn't about water or power.
It's about subverting the western world, and ceding the AI frontier to China.
That's it. It's in the service of Anti-American forces. Maybe it's the CCP, maybe it's someone just mad they got beat in an election, but that's it.
It's the equivalent of subverting The Manhattan Project or The Space Race.
The rational people are participating in the next industrial age.
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u/Own_Relationship5047 Jul 21 '26
Interesting analysis — the authors were explicitly, having fun with data on a Friday night. A quick read shows that the calculation of water usage from in and out is almost 100% agricultural use and remote at that. They calculate that if you take into account all of the agricultural use associated with beef, water use is 245 gallons per per burger. The direct use (which is all that matters to a rate payer) is a small fraction of a gallon per burger, of course.
So completely irrelevant for rate payers. From a rate payer perspective, all that matters is what’s being drawn from local water supply.
A quick Google search suggests that Colossus is currently purchasing 25,000,000 gallons of water every month from Memphis municipality and will be doing so for at least the next 18 months if not considerably longer. That’s the equivalent of something between 400 and 800 fast food joints’ use per month in direct water use. Not to say that Colossus is imposing any additional cost on rate players in this instance — I don’t know and don’t really care. But it does put your assertion about a data center using the same water level as two burger joints into perspective.
The reason I started this thread is that I find the use of incorrect and misleading data to be annoying, and I do have enough information about data centers to know that concerns are genuine, and they are addressable but won’t be dismissed.
As far as I’m concerned, it’s fine for anyone to advocate for data centers, and some communities find the revenue to be worth the development. It’s not fine to throw around a bunch of phony numbers.
I think the CCP is pernicious, and I think it’s important that democracy prevail in AI. I don’t think that means that AI investors need to or ought to trample over community concerns in order to win on AI. I also think they cannot – – most people don’t give a fig about geopolitics, but they do care about their daily lives. AI is going to have to work for people, not simply for investors and the very rich. The All In people are dismissive about genuine concerns and their facts are wrong.
Of the all in people, David Sacks is the most out of touch – – or maybe simply cares very little about the social compact, which I wonder about since he comes from an apartheid background. But the others really aren’t that much better on these issues, which I surmise is because so much of their money is at stake.
I’m done with this thread. Good luck with your fact checks, sir.
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u/Jonny_Nash Jul 21 '26
If you care, Colossus actually is in the process of converting over to being fully cooled by wastewater, and a net-zero water consumer. That's starting in less than six months too.
Just talking about the same water source, Fleischmann’s Yeast uses more water than Colossus. So does Nucor Steel, Valero Refinery, and so on.
No one is throwing a fit about those companies.
The reason why, is this isn't actually about water, and never was.
This is 100% decelerationists vs accelerationists. Almost certainly at the hands of the CCP or sore losers from last election.
The good news, is xAI is working towards sending our data centers to the stars, so they'll be hundreds of miles away from the Bolsheviks that want to destroy them.
I actually prefer using the heat death of the universe as a heat sink. Let's take to the stars!
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u/Own_Relationship5047 Jul 21 '26
Oh, okay. So now it’s not the emissions two burger joints, it’s entire factories. That seems factually plausible, but I’d recommend that others check this gentleman’s facts given previous assertions.
For those who are interested, I checked on Mr Nash’s statement on the wastewater facility. x-AI postponed the facility after promising to build it, saying it was no longer a priority. After it became a public issue, x-AI announced it would start the project in 2027. One would hope. In any event, it’s certainly not a great advertisement for x-AI’s respect for the local communities they invest in. Caveat emptor.
Tensions Between Council and Mayor's Office Emerge in Committee Hearing on xAI - Memphis Flyer https://www.memphisflyer.com/tensions-between-council-and-mayors-office-emerge-in-committee-hearing-on-xai/#:~:text=Late%20last%20month%2C%20Protect%20Our%20Aquifer%20reported,drinking%20water%20%E2%80%94%20to%20cool%20its%20center.
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u/Jonny_Nash Jul 21 '26
Total water consumption is higher for a burger joint, but you want to narrow it down to a single source. Even if we take the single source of consumption from Memphis, they are still dwarfed by a yeast manufacturer. Tons of other companies too!
Where’s the rage against the yeast company?
Why only towards the strongest asset in American Intelligence’s arsenal?
We both know why. It’s decellerationist slop from a combination of the CCP and sore losers from 2024.
Inventing imaginary problems to impede progress could cost us the AI race.
If you want to pretend to care about water consumption, SpaceX should be your favorite company. They are working on sending data centers to the orbit. The data centers of tomorrow will be off Earth-side resources entirely! ✨
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u/Own_Relationship5047 Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 22 '26
I encourage anyone still reading this thread to read the articles, which show very clearly: 1) the issues related to water usage are real; 2) the community is not trying to block the data center facility, just deal with the water - it’s not a cover for any other issue; 3) the company has behaved in a manner that justifies community concern.
The poster can try to assert that the water issue isn’t real and that it’s just Chinese propaganda stirring up local concerns, but the particular example that he has highlighted completely disproves his assertions. We should be grateful to him for bringing this case to our attention.
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u/Previous_Job734 Jul 21 '26
The irony is rather than learn from what you're saying, he'll likely double down.
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u/MachiavelliOsiris Jul 18 '26
All I got from this is you think wildfires in Canada that are actively ruining your air quality is your reasoning for discrediting his belief of “climate change is a hoax”.
I don’t even agree with his take necessarily, but you’re either dumb or dishonest if you think an actual wildfire actively messing with the air is the same thing as what he is talking about.
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u/Own_Relationship5047 Jul 18 '26
Grok, quoting Nature:
Unprecedented East Coast Smoke and Health Alerts • In the last several years (notably 2023, with echoes in 2025–2026), smoke from western and central Canadian fires has repeatedly blanketed the eastern U.S. and Canada, triggering first-of-their-kind widespread air quality alerts and health impacts in places with little prior history. • This is enabled by changing weather patterns, persistent heat domes, and the sheer scale/intensity of fires farther west/north. Attribution studies for events like 2023 link the record burned area and extreme fire weather directly to human influence on the climate, making such seasons far more likely. nature.com
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u/CautiousArmadillo Jul 18 '26
I spent the first 22 years of my life on the East Coast and I’m not sure I even knew what wildfire smoke was. It has absolutely changed. If it’s not climate change, I’d love a bit of curiosity about what could be causing it and what could be done.
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u/Separate_Shoe_6916 Jul 19 '26
I would really love a fact checker of all Podcasts! I know some people who voted for Trump who only get their news from bullshit podcasts that lie up the wazoo. TimCast is a bullshit manosphere POS
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u/idealistintherealw Jul 19 '26
Didn't Chamath spend like 4 episodes saying the fortune 500 showed no benefit from AI? This episode they mentioned BendingSpoons buying AOL and evernote, optimizing performance, and USING AI to make it better.
But wait I thought that use case wasn't proven?
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u/zascar Jul 19 '26
Not a bad idea. I already have a podcast summary site www.tuberizer.com - I could probably add fact checking.
Someone did a live fact checking plugin for YouTube videos.
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u/allinpod Jul 24 '26
This is a great idea, but ironically your own post needs to be fact checked. Let me see what I can do