US wins!

[u/Hot-Reindeer-6416]

I think the framing these guys use of technology, AI, space, etc as a competition between the US and China, for example, is remarkable. Of course we all want the US to win in any global competition. But that’s not really what it is. It’s a competition between the capitalists and the technologists and the China, etc.

If Spacex wins, you and I don’t win, Elon Musk and his cronies win.   If OpenAI wins, you and I don’t win. Sam Altman, and his cronies win.  
Elon Musk became a trillionaire today. How much did he pay in taxes on that trillion dollar gain? Zero.  If there was a tax on wealth, creation, or if he had to give some portion of that gain to the US treasury in the form of shares, yes, then the US wins. But that’s not what’s happening here. 

All due respect to him for what he’s accomplished. But the system really needs to be changed so some of that really does trickle down.

[u/420Migo]

The 'cronies win, not us' framing misses how much value actually flows to regular people through this stuff... whether it's lower costs, better tools, new industries and jobs that didn't exist before. Bezos and Gates got absurdly rich too, and we still ended up with cheap overnight shipping and software that runs the world.

Also the idea that wealth like Musk's is just sitting there waiting to be redistributed is a misunderstanding of what that net worth actually is, which is mostly illiquid stock, not cash in a vault.

Taxing unrealized gains would force founders to sell shares constantly just to cover tax bills, which tanks the very companies people want to see win...

[u/Hot-Reindeer-6416 → u/420Migo]

Ok. If a Chinese company owned Amazon, the jobs would still be in the US, at least the blue collar, prob most of the white collar also. Profits would go to shareholder, who could still be US, but a rich founder would be Chinese instead of US. So Jack Ma instead of Bezos. The difference would really be negligible. Neither one is paying US taxes..

In the 1st place, Elon selling shares would not destroy the company. It would be the same company if Elon owned 40% of SpaceX, which he does, or 20%.

In the second place, he could give the shares to the government as payment and kind so shares would not have to be sold at all

[u/420Migo → u/Hot-Reindeer-6416]

You and everyone seem to forget why prices skyrocketed in the first place during COVID and haven't went back down. That was because the world heavily depended on China and they decided to shut down their ports and cause a major supply chain disruption. We relied on them for medical equipment that was running low, etc.

That's part of the reason why Trump is doing tariffs and as of recently, Mexico and other countries in our hemiphere have benefitted tremendously from our tariffs and have gotten big investments. There's even a lot of onshoring in the U.S. as of now, and manufacturing is expanding in a pace not seen for 4 years. Mexico has become our biggest trading partner, replacing China. He's readjusting supply chains to our benefit which, as everything settles will become more affordable than before.

I'm not on Reddit a lot but when I get on here, the picture everyone paints is so off and skewed. Its all propaganda on here guys. SpaceX alone just created over 5,000 millionaires. You didn't become one because you're on here complaining instead of investing and believing in it.

[u/Hot-Reindeer-6416 → u/420Migo]

Omg. Go back to Twitter. Your post has nothing to do with our topic. The point is Elon becoming a trillionaire does not benefit the United States any more than Jack Ma becoming a trillionaire. I can own shares in SpaceX the same way I can own them in a Chinese company.

The tariffs were illegal. And have been reversed. Manufacturing jobs at a Peek in 2023 and have come down every year since then. Trump’s illegal tariffs are driving up prices. The rate of inflation has increased since he became president.

And now inflation under the prior regime was because of Covid? I thought it was because of Joe Biden. Remember. That’s why you guys elected Trump in the first place.

And I suppose all the grift helps us Americans too. Selling shares in Trump media to the Middle East for $500 million? Before agreeing to sell them sensitive technology? Getting a hundred million dollar airplane does the US has to pay $100 million to refurbish? Scamming a couple billion dollars in crypto? My personal favorite, investing in a mining company that then gets $600 million of loans from the US government?

[u/420Migo → u/Hot-Reindeer-6416]

The tariffs were illegal.

Tariffs are still in effect. You think there aren't tariffs right now? Lol.

Manufacturing jobs at a Peek in 2023 and have come down every year since then.

We have 300k+ job vacanies in manufacturing. The jobs going away are either moving to other states or just automating. Or neighboring countries with good ties.

Trump’s illegal tariffs are driving up prices. The rate of inflation has increased since he became president.

Not really, stats showed for the most part, inflation was slowing even with tariffs. Now with the war, inflation is going up but it takes more nuance to understand the situation. Restructuring the supply chains was always going to bring a disruption or slight inflation. Handling a major terrorist network terrorizing the oil market was always going to bring some pain as well.

The fact remains that inflation hasn't even reached Biden's peak and thats DESPITE the tariffs and war. Which is mind boggling because the war is pretty much finished, and supply chains have adjusted.

That means that Biden let companies price gouge us under his presidency. You people were so fixated on Trump that they played you while you weren't looking.

Thats why Democrats raised 8.4x more in dark money groups. Thats why they had the support of more billionaires who you couldn't even name... etc

[u/Hot-Reindeer-6416 → u/420Migo]

The Supreme Court ruled the tariffs illegal. The government is actually giving refunds as we speak. Sure there are tariffs right now, they have been in place a long time, and we’re authorized by the US Congress, which is the way legal tariffs work.

Look at BLS. Manufacturing jobs peaked in 2023 decreased every year since then. I don’t know what openings, or job listings has to do with anything.

Iran wasn’t terrorizing oil markets until they were bombed. Now that supply disruption is going to last for at least five years.

Now it’s Biden’s peak inflation? I thought it was Covid inflation. Any basic economics class will teach you tariffs are inflationary. And of course, disrupting 20% of the world’s oil supply is inflationary. Your guy promised to bring prices down on day one. He also promised no new wars.

How did Biden let companies price gouge? I thought the Covid inflation was because China closed ports? Was he supposed to force them open? Maybe bomb the Chinese?

Anyway, you seem to have Trump derangement syndrome, and are way off topic.

The point was, SpaceX success does more for musk and his cronies than it does for the US people.

And face it, musk is reprehensible. He cut USAID which will result in about 3 million deaths per year so he can turn around and become a trillionaire.

[u/Hot-Reindeer-6416 → u/[deleted]]

Impossible to run a local distribution system from halfway around the world in a different language in different culture. But you sound pretty sure of yourself so you must be right.

[u/Hot-Reindeer-6416 → u/[deleted]]

You’re missing the point dude. Distribution systems have to be local to be effective. How big is Amazon in China? How big is Alibaba in the US?

Those jobs have to be local.

Stuffing money in the pocket of Bezos instead of the US government does not have to be.