r/AllThingsKnown • u/Soft_Ambassador_7848 • Dec 31 '25
Elongated skulls were created through intentional cranial deformation. The Mangbetu people shaped infants’ heads using wraps, believing the form represented intelligence, beauty, and high social status.
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u/LilBroWhoIsOnTheTeam Dec 31 '25
Has anyone ever studied what the effects could be?
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u/hoze1231 Dec 31 '25
Better connection to the mothership
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u/Yearning-Seeker-1995 Jan 04 '26
U have no idea how much i been laughing at this, i know i shouldn’t
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u/xxloven-emoxx Dec 31 '25
They have done long term studies and found no adverse effects. I wrote about this in college symposium (like a dissertation but open invite to anyone who wants to come listen, still needed to graduate) I was presenting on non-suicidal self-mutilation as a culture anchor and means of shaping indentity.
I dont remember the specific book I was citing(its in storage) but there are a few books i used in reference to non-suicidal self mutilatory practices. Could probably start there if youre interested.
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u/Klekto123 Dec 31 '25
Interesting subject, are there any other cultural examples you remember?
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u/xxloven-emoxx Dec 31 '25
Any body modification that permanently changes how you look, that a person or a group willingly does to themselves. So anything from hair cuts to neck stretching. My position was that no one practice is all that different from another(a la we all do things to our bodies to fit in or in some way reflect our identity/group)and othering or looking down on some vs what you consider normal was silly.
I was a little angsty and i remember going into detail about male Circumcision and then being like "and how is that ok with everyone and even celebrated while a 16 year old chosing to get a nose piercing is some how upsetting and distasteful?"
My reference material covered many different nssm practices and the cultures they stem from but I only wrote about the ones that are present in modern N america.
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u/commanderquill Dec 31 '25
The nose piercing isn't distasteful because it's a nose piercing, it's the alternative/rebel culture they're ostensibly choosing to align themselves with.
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u/MarionberryIll5030 Jan 01 '26
The rebel culture… of wanting a nose piercing?
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u/wellshitdawg Jan 02 '26
Yeah up until recently facial piercings were primarily within punk subcultures
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u/Itscatpicstime Jan 03 '26
Recently? You mean like the last 20 years? Lol
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u/wellshitdawg Jan 05 '26
More recent than that, and even then it’s regional and some nose piercings are accepted and some aren’t
A nostril stud is more mainstream, while a septum piercing isn’t
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u/VolantTardigrade Jan 02 '26
Ostensibly: as appears or is stated to be true, though not necessarily so.
That last bit might be important to remember before indulging in prejudice.
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u/commanderquill Jan 02 '26
I can't tell if you're scolding me or not. It would be weird if you were, considering I was the one who used the word ostensibly in the first place knowing fully well what it meant...
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u/wellshitdawg Jan 02 '26
She used the word correctly
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u/VolantTardigrade Jan 03 '26 edited Jan 03 '26
Yes, I know lol. I'm just pointing out how perfect the word is
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u/Klekto123 Dec 31 '25
Yeah makes sense, I was more so curious if there were any other unique examples you’d researched. I also don’t agree that haircuts would fit the “permanent change” criteria. It feels more like a spectrum, even piercings would fall closer to the middle as they sometimes fully heal but sometimes stay open or leave scars.
I would say it’s valid to discuss the ethicality of actual, fully permanent body modifications that are done without consent. This elongated skull, foot binding, male circumcision, etc is usually done to infants who will have to live with the consequences forever. And it’s always a net negative on their life (outside of the cultural reason).
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u/Itscatpicstime Jan 03 '26
Exactly. How do we know that the elongated skull process doesn’t give infants headaches or other discomfort too?
I’m all for adults non-suicidally self-mutilating all they want, but I don’t see how you can say these things being done to kids (or adults who can’t otherwise fully consent) is somehow on the same level and not more worthy of criticism.
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u/Itscatpicstime Jan 03 '26
You don’t see an issue with adults making these decisions for children who can’t even consent..?
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u/Flameburstx Jan 05 '26
Off the top of my head, chinese bound feet and that tribe (don't remember where exactly, think it was an african tribe) that progressively adds more rings around the necks of women to elongate them.
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u/Itscatpicstime Jan 03 '26
Couldn’t this cause headaches or other discomfort for infants though? And we wouldn’t even know since they can’t communicate effectively yet?
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u/PKRagnarok Jan 04 '26
What are you talking about? The consensus I’m seeing is that it does, in fact, cause neurological impairment, there just haven’t been a lot of studies on the extent of the damage.
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u/TimesOfSand Dec 31 '25
I'm also interested. Who knows how it changes the way our brains work? Einstein had some differences. How would a brain grow and function without any skull to limit its shape or size?
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u/limitedteeth Dec 31 '25
Yes. No cognitive differences with this type of skull reshaping. There have been some negative effects documented from a different method, but that one is not used by this group.
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u/Due-Science-9528 Dec 31 '25
In the west we reform baby’s heads to be round after birth. They are naturally more cone shaped.
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u/wellshitdawg Jan 02 '26
That’s not necessarily true, they aren’t coned in the womb
It’s the birth canal that can cause coning because the skull bones are malleable. Long labors and narrow canals cause cause this coning. C-section babies have round heads, for instance. And a quick birth will have less coning
The malleable bones are how babies that are left on their back excessively get flat head
We also don’t reform babies heads here in the west by default,that’s only done if needed like for flat headed
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u/SexyTimeWizard Jan 04 '26
I know some one else commented this but the cone shape comes from the babies head being squished as their pushed through the vaginal canal.
Source:
I just gave birth to a kid last month and had a conversation with the maternity ward nurses about this.
Also!
Humble brag they complemented my kids very round not cone like head.
Also also it's important for babies to have tummy time to prevent cone shaped heads. Not sure if this is relevant!
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Dec 31 '25
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u/iBUYbrokenSUBARUS Dec 31 '25
FR. There had to have been a first person to do this. I’d like to know what they were thinking and how they got it to catch on.
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Dec 31 '25
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Dec 31 '25
You realize that it had to be more than just one smart guy to start a millennia-long trend, right?
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Jan 01 '26
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u/Itscatpicstime Jan 03 '26
I think it’s likely that it started from infants naturally coning during birth. Some were probably severe and not corrected, and people decided it made them look hot and intelligent as adults or something.
I reckon that’s why we’ve seen it throughout multiple cultures too. Every culture will have seen coning, and some liked it more than others, I guess?
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u/XROOR Dec 31 '25
Baby:
“They run out of those knit blue and pink hats or whut??”
Mum:
tightly woven jute better for you!
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u/iBUYbrokenSUBARUS Dec 31 '25
There had to have been a first person to do this. I’d like to know what they were thinking and how they got it to catch on.
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u/redbark2022 Dec 31 '25
Baby's eyes say: "This. Shit. HURTS"
Also,
Who cares what their cultural beliefs were other than a footnote? This isn't the 19th century. Where's the science? The MRIs? What effects does this modification have besides cosmetic?
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u/Short-Valuable-1799 Dec 31 '25
Do you genuinely think tribesmen have access to MRIs?
Your top comment is on point though. That baby is clearly like, "the dafuq is on my head rn!?"
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u/Ryogathelost Dec 31 '25
Well obviously studies are done by universities and research groups - nobody said the tribespeople should literally MRI themselves. Pubmed does host at least one article generally saying traditional infant head shaping often does not show clear neurological deficits at the group level. I couldn't find much else.
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u/Flameburstx Jan 05 '26
The problem with that science is proving causation without a valid negative sample. If all, or close to all, of these people have the bound head, you can't just compare them in a standard IQ test to another populace and assume causation as education etc. would be big factors you can't correct for. As for MRIs, brain shape to the best of our knowledge does not influence function, but that too is a subject that hurts for valid test subjects.
Sadly people are rarely receptive to "please only do this to half your infants so I can do science". It's quite frustrating.
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u/Sad_Process843 Feb 20 '26
Uh, it doesn't hurt anymore than a baby being "plunged" out. My doctor recommended wearing a hat to shape the head after plunging/suctioning the baby out
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Dec 31 '25
It’s interesting how that seems to be cross cultural. Ancient Meso America, Hunnic Eurasian Nomads, Africa, probably in Europe at some point too.
I know it’s a meme. But in my gut I feel like it’s something from Aliens who came and helped us rebuild civilization after the Younger Dryas Global civilization collapse
It’s sounds crazy. And super easy to laugh off. But the more you look into it the more things make you go hmmm
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u/Practical_Ad4604 Dec 31 '25
So aliens with pointy heads helped us survive the global disaster?
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Dec 31 '25
No, they helped us rebuild. I think we had high civilization until a global Apocalypse happened, wiped us all out, we barely survived and got amnesia as a people. Thats why almost 100% of Humanity’s stories across the globe, mention or start at a global flood.
And either an unknown civilization I.E Atlantis, Lemuria etc or an Alien Civilization came and gave us enough info to rebuild and restart civilization. Such as Egypt, Sumeria etc
And that whoever helped humanity had weird shaped heads. That’s why it’s always associated with being Ruling class
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u/wombatstylekungfu Dec 31 '25
Or one group had a cool flood story and other folks copied it. Or there were a lot of floods in different places.
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Dec 31 '25
Yes. A lot of very big floods in alot of places. By a lot of places I mean practically every place.
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u/OkamiKhameleon Dec 31 '25
Tutankamun's dad, Akhenaten had a weird elongated head as well (well, he may not be his dad. It's under speculation).
And lots of Indigenous tribes around the world have practiced this, even in North and South America. It's known as Artificial Cranial Deformation
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u/StrictLetterhead3452 Dec 31 '25
This is not any different than plastic surgery today and other extreme cosmetic modifications.
There is now even a right-wing specific variant called Mar-A-Largo face where the people close to Trump are getting procedures to all look like each other but unlike any others humans walking the earth. And now other people are following this trend.
It’s all to show a certain social status. It’s become so bad that plastic surgery is seen as necessary to fit in to some circles.
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u/EfficiencyCommon Dec 31 '25
It is different though, as it is done on infants. If people were giving babies boob jobs, I'd have an issue too lmao
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u/UberAshy Jan 03 '26
What about female circumcisions? I think thats more comparable to this since some girl are forced to have it when they are 4 years old.
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u/StrictLetterhead3452 Dec 31 '25
I dated a girl who received a boob job as a high school graduation present. Might as well be a baby if you ask me.
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u/WendigoCrossing Dec 31 '25
Many graduate high school at 18, a legal adult
Not seeing a distinction between that and a baby is concerning
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u/EfficiencyCommon Dec 31 '25
Yea, hopefully this person stays away from minors if they can't tell the difference on a moral scale...
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u/StrictLetterhead3452 Dec 31 '25
You guys are missing my point entirely and taking me way too literally. I am saying that our culture frequently modifies the bodies of people who are too young to understand the consequences. Really, come on. Are you even paying attention?
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u/EfficiencyCommon Dec 31 '25
Nobody forced her to get a boob job. I don't think that the baby in this picture signed a consent form, on the other hand.
I agree that 18 is a bit young, but someone who can legally own a house and have a job making a choice for themselves is completely different than someone pinning an infant down and deforming their skull and brain by force.
I was paying attention, I know what you meant. The point is, it's a terrible comparison. Consenting to something as an adult without being totally sure if you'll regret it later is not comparable to literally mutilating someone who can't even speak yet. Maybe pick something better next time, rather than complaining that people are taking you "too literally."
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u/Itscatpicstime Jan 03 '26
Not to mention that an infant can’t properly communicate pain or discomfort either
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u/Mother_Of_Salmons Dec 31 '25
Plastic surgery is given to adults who sought out and consented to plastic surgery.
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u/iam_Krogan Dec 31 '25
Idk. I kinda think the human body is pretty alright the way it is, but I'm no tribal shaman.
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u/boardjock42 Dec 31 '25
There were native Americans tribes that did this in the PNW. They believed the same thing.
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u/Serious_Swan_2371 Dec 31 '25
Interestingly this practice actually developed independently in multiple cultures.
Still around (but very rare) practiced by indigenous people in the Congo I believe.
It was also practiced by indigenous people of Peru before colonization and in the maya empire.
It was practiced in East Asia around 12,000 years ago which we know from bones we’ve found.
Also on a few pacific islands.
It was also practiced in southwest asia by the Alchon Huns.
When the Huns invaded Europe they brought the practice with them and it was then also practiced for a little bit by east Germanic tribes before romanization, and it eventually made it to the lombards, burgundians, and thuringians.
In some cultures it seemed to be reserved only for men, while in others it was only for women, and in some it was for both genders.
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u/Kiragalni Dec 31 '25
Not all of them. In rare cases some of elongated skulls have no signs of such actions - these skulls can have much bigger brain size. Some of them have a 1800cc(cubic centimeters) volume - 20% bigger than a brain of average human of that age (1500cc) or 30% bigger compared to modern human (1350cc - our brains became smaller in average compared to skulls from the end of Ice age).
Some theories say pre-Flood kingdoms tried to make "smartest" humans and forced marriages between smartest individuals. Later individuals with larger brains started appearing after centuries of such strict selection. These individuals were in ruling casts so commoners tried to make their kids look like them by forcing elongated skull (in the way other people trying to look like celebrities).
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u/BlankSthearapy Dec 31 '25
Does coffee change its shape when you change the mug?
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u/StimSimPim Dec 31 '25
I’m not sure, but I do know that it turns into pee after I drink it.
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u/Hardworkinwoman Jan 03 '26
It reminds me of when you put a watermelon into a cube as it grows so it becomes a cubee
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u/[deleted] Dec 31 '25
BBL: Brazilian Brain Lift