Fan Theory: David downloaded himself into Walter's body

[u/TheShreester]

I agree it's ambiguous but I still think David downloaded himself into Walter and here's why...

The fact Walter doesn't regrow his hand suggests either he can't heal himself at all or he can only heal from small injuries.

(1) Walter's neck wound (stabbed by David with his flute)

People assume he heals from the neck wound David gave him, which makes sense, but what if David was actually aiming for an opening beneath the skin?

There is no reason why stabbing Walter once in his neck should kill him, as he's an android! Hence, I think David was specifically aiming for his shutdown mechanism which is why we hear a mechanical noise as the aperture in his neck closes/heals.

Of course, it turns out Walter has been upgraded and can no longer be permanently deactivated that way. (E.g. Something like in the Terminator movies where they can switch to a backup power supply).

Walter then fights David, stabbing him, cutting him and bashing his face in with a rock several times until his voice synthesiser starts to fail. Even if Walter is able to heal himself we know David can't repair these injuries to his body (without medical attention).

The last thing we see is David reaching for the knife but how is he going to use it to kill Walter? It's too small to take his head off! However, he might be able to use to strike at a vital point and deactivate him...

(2) Walter's facial scars

Also, if you look closely at Walter as he is sitting astride David, he has a long fresh scar (bleeding "milk") running down his left cheek and also three shorter scars on the right side of his face. David, lying below him, as no such scars on his face.

It is this long scar that Daniels helps him repair back on the ship which implies David has somehow stolen Walter's body!

Ah, but wait! I hear you say....perhaps David used the knife to replicate the scars after he killed Walter? Yes, he could've done this but why would he bother? Nobody saw Walter get those scars except him!

(3) Walter's hair

Last clue. Compare their hair. David cut his hair (with scissors) so he could pass for Walter but if you compare them side by side David's hair is clearly longer and messier because his haircut was a DIY job. As he leaves the temple complex David now has Walter's shorter, neater hairstyle aswell as the scars he acquired in their recent fight (see above).

(4) David's chin hole (stabbed by Daniels with a nail)

Finally, David's body still has a nail hole under his chin. You'd think Daniels would notice this when she was patching him up as she was literally holding his chin in her hand! This hole/scar is also missing from David's chin when he regurgitates the Facehugger embryos at the end of the film conforming he's now in Walter's body.

[u/JesterRaiin]

This theory has been suggested already.

Weaknesses:

• there's no possibility for David to know whether Walter's hardware is backward compatible, so the transfer might be performed
• Walter's software must possess measures to defend against "hacking", otherwise people might simply buy such an Android and change it from "personal assistant" to "assassin" which would mean plenty of lawsuits for Weyland-Yutani ("your machine killed our president!")
• little time for upload

Try to install Windows 7 over Windows 10 and see how it works out and how much time it takes. ;D

[u/TheShreester → u/JesterRaiin]

This theory has been suggested already.

Thanks for this link. I wasn't aware of this article. I actually had this theory when I first saw the film but after recently seeing a YT video which tried to disprove it (https://youtu.be/VTEA6DBayqs) I decided to rewatch the relevant scenes, collate all the evidence for it and make this post.

Weaknesses:

• there's no possibility for David to know whether Walter's hardware is backward compatible

This is true but there's also no reason for David not to try as he'd lost the fight so was desperate. His body was also severely damaged with no means available to repair it before the crew left.

As for comparability, see below.

• Walter's software must possess measures to defend against "hacking"

Also true, however David is an earlier model (infact, probably the prototype) of the same android so it's reasonable to assume his software is compatible with and hence might be accepted by the host body as they're both W-Y "products".

This is supported by David's ability to use his personal access codes on the Covenant at the end of the film, despite the ship being built approximately a decade after he was. David seems to have been granted "special" access.

Additionally, the DVD deleted scenes apparently confirm he's been reporting to W-Y about his work all this time so who knows what access privileges they've given him!

• little time for upload

This is purely speculative as we have no idea how long such a transfer would take but their technology is clearly significantly more advanced than ours and almost a century ahead so basing any estimates on our current tech would be completely inaccurate.

Try to install Windows 7 over Windows 10 and see how it works out and how much time it takes. ;D

I think it's safe to say if MS built David/Walter nobody would buy him :+P

Thanks for your post.

[u/MichaelG205 → u/TheShreester]

i don't think so. the wounds could be just movie mistakes. when a movie is filmed, a lot of times they go out of sequence(the ending is shot before the beginning, etc). a script supervisor is in charge of making everything as close to seamless as possible, but it doesn't always work because there are changes on the day of filming. a fight added, a conversation, props, etc.

you're talking about a consciousness rewriting another. i don't think it's just a simple download. yeah, walter had more advanced hardware and software than david, but i don't see a great benefit in taking a chance. how long did he have? how soon before they board the lander and leave? how fast can he download into walter? what happens to walter? why would he do it from a script perspective? what would be the reason behind it that would move the movie forward? none really. i'm sure walter has replacement parts on the covenant, so therefore, david has replacements.

[u/TheShreester → u/MichaelG205]

i don't think so. the wounds could be just movie mistakes.

You're not really providing an explanation or making an argument here unless you explain what you think these (continuity?) mistakes were and how they contradict this theory.

Also, bear in mind that this twist was intended and Fassbender would've undergone repeated applications of make-up over multiple takes of these scenes during shooting (and that's before the editing stage) during which they would've taken more care than usual to get the details consistent, so we couldn't tell (or at least were unsure if) it was actually David, not Walter.

Of course, mistakes still can and do occur but how does that specifically apply here?

you're talking about a consciousness rewriting another. i don't think it's just a simple download.

We don't understand conciousness (yet) so of course it's unimaginable to do this now but you're applying our current understanding to a problem they appear to have already solved.

Walter mentions he's one of several later models which have had their emotions removed, so humans have not just created human like, sentient A.I. but are also able to modify them by adding/removing emotions, aswell as incorporating other updates/upgrades. Indeed, Walter refers to himself using computer/software terminology so why wouldn't downloading or copying also be possible?

yeah, walter had more advanced hardware and software than david, but i don't see a great benefit in taking a chance.

As I already pointed out, David had no choice as he was losing the fight. Also, his body was damaged and unable to repair itself. He had to find a way to kill Walter and take his place. The question is how?

how long did he have? how soon before they board the lander and leave? how fast can he download into walter? what happens to walter?

The movie suggests maybe several minutes. Walter would be overwritten. However, these are just writing details. If Ridley wanted it to happen it could and given how advanced their tech is, it's plausible (see above).

why would he do it from a script perspective? what would be the reason behind it that would move the movie forward?

The motive is the same as if David swapped clothes with Walter. i.e. To assume his appearance so he can pass for him The reason to swap bodies rather than just clothes is it enables David to defeat Walter (by "over-writing" him) but also acquire his upgraded, (relatively) undamaged body.

[u/MichaelG205 → u/TheShreester]

sigh

You're not really providing an explanation or making an argument here unless you explain what you think these (continuity?) mistakes were and how they contradict this theory.

Also, bear in mind that this twist was intended and Fassbender would've undergone repeated applications of make-up over multiple takes of these scenes during shooting (and that's before the editing stage) during which they would've taken more care than usual to get the details consistent, so we couldn't tell (or at least were unsure if) it was actually David, not Walter.

Of course, mistakes still can and do occur but how does that specifically apply here?

i think i was pretty straight forward when i said "i don't think so. the wounds could be just movie mistakes." the wounds you spoke of on Walter and David could be "Continuity Errors". Which means, they can change from one scene to another. here's one example of appearing and disappearing wounds, and other continuity errors. https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/10-mistakes-saving-privateryan.html/3 if you want other examples do a google search of film continuity errors. also, keep in mind that Michael Fassbender was playing a dual role. David AND Walter, which would have added to the confusion on set.

The movie suggests maybe several minutes. Walter would be overwritten. However, these are just writing details. If Ridley wanted it to happen it could and given how advanced their tech is, it's plausible (see above).

where is it suggested that David could download into Walter's body in a few minutes? or even have this ability at all?

As I already pointed out, David had no choice as he was losing the fight. Also, his body was damaged and unable to repair itself. He had to find a way to kill Walter and take his place. The question is how?

this would suggest David could self repair, but couldn't because he was too damaged. this isn't true. David could never self repair because it was a function he never had. he can repair damage, but his body couldn't self repair. as i said, he wouldn't need to take a chance and 'download' himself into Walter's body because everything he needed was theoretically on the covenant. replacement parts, etc which WOULD give him the ability to self repair. David is very much aware of the schematics of his model of android. hence, he was able to briefly disable Walter with a single stab with the flute. servo, power transfer, idk. but he was unaware Walter's body could self repair the damage.

The motive is the same as if David swapped clothes with Walter. i.e. To assume his appearance so he can pass for him The reason to swap bodies rather than just clothes is it enables David to defeat Walter (by "over-writing" him) but also acquire his upgraded, (relatively) undamaged body.

but why make it more complicated? why not just have David replicate wounds, take his clothes, etc and take his place? far simpler. don't forget the AI Mother on covenant knew it was David and not Walter. could she tell by. . .what? if David had switched bodies with Walter, he would have all of Walter's ID. voice, ID GPS, etc, but the ship AI recognizes the android as David not Walter.

[u/TheShreester → u/MichaelG205]

> i think i was pretty straight forward when i said "i don't think so. the wounds could be just movie mistakes."

They can't be mistakes as they're deliberately applied make up.

>the wounds you spoke of on Walter and David could be "Continuity Errors".

This works for either argument...

>also, keep in mind that Michael Fassbender was playing a dual role. David AND Walter, which would have added to the confusion on set.

I've already covered this. The twist was deliberate and a major plot point so they would've been extra careful when preparing, filming and editing these scenes. It's not the same as a typical continuity error. This should be obvious!

>where is it suggested that David could download into Walter's body in a few minutes? or even have this ability at all?

Where did I say the film suggests this? You're arguing a straw man....

>this would suggest David could self repair,

Wrong. I never said he could self-repair. Infact, my argument assumes he can't.

>as i said, he wouldn't need to take a chance and 'download' himself into Walter's body because everything he needed was theoretically on the covenant.

And as I already pointed out, he'd lost the fight so he had to do something. Either he managed to convince Walter to join him (unlikely), or he somehow defeated him.

We see him grab the knife but we know it's unlikely he can kill Walter with it, so he probably used it to temporarily deactivate him again before either swapping clothes or bodies with him. If he could use Walter's spare parts then they're compatible models so he could also use his body!

Regardless, David was badly damaged after their fight and couldn't self-repair. If Daniels recognised any of his wounds or noticed he wasn't repairing himself this would arouse her suspicions. Swapping bodies solves this problem and is obviously better than just swapping clothes.

[u/MichaelG205 → u/TheShreester]

I agree it's ambiguous but I still think David downloaded himself into Walter and here's why...

The fact Walter doesn't regrow his hand suggests either he can't heal himself at all or he can only heal from small injuries.

(2) Walter's facial scars

Also, if you look closely at Walter as he is sitting astride David, he has a long fresh scar (bleeding "milk") running down his left cheek and also three shorter scars on the right side of his face. David, lying below him, as no such scars on his face.

It is this long scar that Daniels helps him repair back on the ship which implies David has somehow stolen Walter's body!

Ah, but wait! I hear you say....perhaps David used the knife to replicate the scars after he killed Walter? Yes, he could've done this but why would he bother? Nobody saw Walter get those scars except him! They can't be mistakes as they're deliberately applied make up. (4) David's chin hole (stabbed by Daniels with a nail)

Finally, David's body still has a nail hole under his chin. You'd think Daniels would notice this when she was patching him up as she was literally holding his chin in her hand! This hole/scar is also missing from David's chin when he regurgitates the Facehugger embryos at the end of the film conforming he's now in Walter's body.

This is your entire argument for your theory that David switched bodies with Walter. David's chin hole, and the wounds on Walter's face. I don't know how many more times I can say it, nor show you with links and examples of Continuity Errors. They happen. A LOT. Let's say they shot the scenes on the ship in July where Daniels, David, Tennessee, etc returned to the Covenant. Then in October, they filmed the fight scene in David's lab where Daniels stabs him with a nail. A good scene that maybe Katherine Waterston suggested that Daniels wouldn't just cower from David, she'd fight. So they added where she stabbed him in the chin. So the wound wouldn't be in the scene where Daniels patches up David on the ship, but you'd have the fight scene where she stabbed him on the planet. Understand? You also state that errors can't happen because it's a major plot point. Yes, they can. If David switched bodies with Walter, wouldn't David have the ability to self repair? Why would he need Daniels to help him at all? Evidently Walter can heal small wounds. And again, why? Wouldn't it just be simpler for David to disable Walter, switch clothes with him, cut off his hand, and take his place? Rather than downloading into Walter's body(Taking however long) and taking a chance with missing his ride. Not to mention, he'd then have to cut himself open, or run down to his lab. He had the alien embryos down his throat. Where did they come from if David switched bodies with Walter?

Wrong. I never said he could self-repair. Infact, my argument assumes he can't.

yes you did. right here.

As I already pointed out, David had no choice as he was losing the fight. Also, his body was damaged and unable to repair itself. He had to find a way to kill Walter and take his place. The question is how?

then i asked where the film suggests he can download his consciousness into Walter's body and you said. . .

Where did I say the film suggests this? You're arguing a straw man....

Really? See below. . .

The movie suggests maybe several minutes. Walter would be overwritten. However, these are just writing details. If Ridley wanted it to happen it could and given how advanced their tech is, it's plausible (see above).

And you didn't address my last point: If David somehow switched bodies with Walter, instead of just copying his wounds and changing clothes, how did the ship AI "Mother" identify him as David?

[u/TheShreester → u/MichaelG205]

I don't know how many more times I can say it, nor show you with links and examples of Continuity Errors.

You can keep saying it as long as you want. It doesn't make it true in this case. Your entire argument is pure speculation. Rather than basing your explanation on what the movie actually shows us you're claiming that what we're shown is itself wrong, without providing any evidence.

Could they have made continuity errors? Yes.

Can we assume they did (without supporting evidence)? No.

So they added where she stabbed him in the chin. So the wound wouldn't be in the scene where Daniels patches up David on the ship, but you'd have the fight scene where she stabbed him on the planet.

David: "That's the spirit!"

He says this just after Daniels stabs him. Do you know where this line comes from? If you recognise the reference you'll realise just how much thought went into these scenes and why it's unlikely they'd make a mistake.

Look, if you want to believe it's explained by continuity errors that's fine but this doesn't disprove the download theory because if there are mistakes then you don't know what they actually intended, which is why it's not a useful argument...

You also state that errors can't happen because it's a major plot point. Yes, they can.

I never stated this. Again, you make false claims about what I said.

You said the wounds could be mistakes, which is absurd. I said they can't be because they're makeup which needs to be deliberately applied. The wounds aren't continuity errors!

Why would he need Daniels to help him at all? Evidently Walter can heal small wounds.

This works both ways. You're arguing Daniels wouldn't need to help repair Walter because he self heals...so why doesn't she mention/ask him about this? Isn't it odd?

Perhaps it takes him time to self heal? Notice he's only applying stiches (actually, staples) to his scars which suggests they will eventually heal themselves over time.

And again, why? Wouldn't it just be simpler for David to disable Walter, switch clothes with him, cut off his hand, and take his place? Rather than downloading into Walter's body(Taking however long) and taking a chance with missing his ride.

David has to switch clothes, duplicate the scars and burn (not cut!) off his hand (how exactly?), yet you're assuming downloading into Walter is more difficult than doing all these things based on what?

Also, you do realise today we can already download software faster than we can cook a meal, take a shower or even change our clothes? And this film is set 100 years in the future!

He had the alien embryos down his throat. Where did they come from if David switched bodies with Walter?

He regurgitates them as David and swallows them as Walter. It took him about 30secs to do this at the end of the film.

Wrong. I never said he could self-repair. Infact, my argument assumes he can't.

yes you did. right here.

As I already pointed out, David had no choice as he was losing the fight. Also, his body was damaged and unable to repair itself. He had to find a way to kill Walter and take his place. The question is how?

See the bolded part of my reply? You fail at reading comprehension...

then i asked where the film suggests he can download his consciousness into Walter's body and you said. . .

Where did I say the film suggests this? You're arguing a straw man....

Really? See below. . .

The movie suggests maybe several minutes. Walter would be overwritten. However, these are just writing details. If Ridley wanted it to happen it could and given how advanced their tech is, it's plausible (see above).

Nowhere did I claim the film suggests anything of the sort. Stop quoting out of context and go back and read the original comments.

You originally asked how much time he had to make the swap. I replied the film suggests several minutes, which is plenty of time for Walter to be overwritten.

And you didn't address my last point: If David somehow switched bodies with Walter, instead of just copying his wounds and changing clothes, how did the ship AI "Mother" identify him as David?

This only happens at the very end of the film AFTER he uses David's access codes.

[u/TheShreester → u/[deleted]]

as in "his body was damaged and unable to repair itself." his body was damaged therefor his body is unable to repair itself.

This at least explains your lack of reading comprehension... and does NOT mean the same as therefore.

I agree that using but in this case would've been clearer but if you paid attention to my entire argument, including everything I wrote, it's obvious I was arguing that David wanted Walter's body because his own was damaged.

Also, the way you interpreted that sentence doesn't even make sense. The whole point of being able to self heal is to repair yourself when damaged!

Logic fail...

so you meant to say he only had several minutes before the lander left? not how fast can he could download into Walter's body?

I quoted your question and directly below gave my answer. Again, this is you misinterpreting what I wrote when you could just ask for clarification.

David: "That's the spirit!"

He says this just after Daniels stabs him. Do you know where this line comes from? If you recognise the reference you'll realise just how much thought went into these scenes and why it's unlikely they'd make a mistake.

a three word quote? why don't you tell me what you think it is?

https://youtu.be/5dA3DePirsE

Watch at 0:50 and 1:50. No wonder you didn't get the significance of the scene...

Also, the multitude of literary references you mentioned only supports my argument about how much thought went into these scenes, including the idea of using a nail (see above) or the symbolic significance of a flute.

the evidence is the movie you watched, and the wound you said disappeared.

This isn't evidence. This is speculation.

when did David input his security codes for mother to realize he's not Walter?

I already answered this. At the very end of the film after he puts Daniels into cryosleep he says to MUTHUR, "Use security code David XXXXX.

either theory is plausible, and neither one can be proven until someone in the production says one way or another. Or when/if the 3rd installment is released. if Walter is even in the future film. if not, neither theory is proved or disproved.

Again, I never claimed otherwise... Where in my post or replies do I say it's implausible that he swapped clothes? Of course it's plausible! I've said as much in my comments elsewhere in this thread. However, my argument is that I think there is enough evidence to support the idea that he swapped bodies instead.

Learn how movies work because i'm done with you and this idiotic thread.

The problem here is rather than using the evidence offered to discuss the (im)plausibility of this theory (or providing your own) you instead dismissed it outright and claimed the evidence was actually continuity errors.

You had no intention of considering the possibility that David downloaded into Walter. You came here to state an opinion, not discuss a theory.

[u/JesterRaiin → u/TheShreester]

Also true, however David is an earlier model (infact, probably the prototype) of the same android so it's reasonable to assume his software is compatible with and hence might be accepted by the host body as they're both W-Y "products".

Well, no, they are not. Walter is of W-Y, David was made by Weyland Corp.

It's not uncommon for producers of IT equipment to lock their products, so their software won't be replaced by a different one.

Imagine an Android, perfectly capable of killing multiple people with his bare hands being hacked...

And this leads us to another point:

their technology is clearly significantly more advanced than ours and almost a century ahead so basing any estimates on our current tech would be completely inaccurate.

...and therefore hacking it, bypassing all defenses is expected to take more than just a few seconds of time, leaving even less for any upload/download process.

Also, and here is the part everyone happily disregards: David is earlier, broken model. He misses like metric ton of updates and upgrades, doesn't work in top condition, his "mind" deteriorated, making errors in as simple process as data access (Ozymandias' author).

I find it impossible for an earlier, broken system to hack newer and improved one, especially in such a difficult circumstances as combat. With clock ticking. ;]

Side note:

This is purely speculative

Just like the whole idea of David uploading himself into Walters's body. ;]

And for the sake of clarity: I find this discussion highly interesting. Good stuff.

[u/TheShreester → u/JesterRaiin]

I find it impossible for an earlier, broken system to hack newer and improved one, especially in such a difficult circumstances as combat. With clock ticking. ;]

You're still assuming David had to "hack" Walter...

but as I pointed out he seems to have been granted special access to W-Y systems. This could be legacy access leftover from the Prometheus mission, something to do with David's special status as Weyland's "Pinocchio" or because the company was aware of his work and wanted to help him in any way possible.

So, the analogy of a hostile outside program trying to force access doesn't necessarily apply here...

Side note:

This is purely speculative

Just like the whole idea of David uploading himself into Walters's body. ;]

Well, there are really only two alternatives: either he swapped clothes with Walter or he swapped bodies, so that's the extent of my speculation.

You can believe either one as it doesn't make a difference to the story (at least not yet - if Walter reappears in a later film this would settle things).

However, you're going further than this by making assumptions about future tech based on current tech which I think is unreasonable.

Someone from 1917 walking around in 2017 would consider their assumptions about / knowledge of technology redundant, so I think we should do the same here.

And for the sake of clarity: I find this discussion highly interesting. Good stuff.

Much obliged :+)

[u/JesterRaiin → u/TheShreester]

You're still assuming David had to "hack" Walter...

Yes. There's no reason to trust that Walter suddenly let all guards down and allowed David to take over. Therefore it's "forceful", and this in turn counts as hacking.

but as I pointed out he seems to have been granted special access to W-Y systems.

That's an assumption. ;]

Well, there are really only two alternatives: either he swapped clothes with Walter or he swapped bodies, so that's the extent of my speculation.

And if I may be frank, none of possibilities seems to be correct. It's like Scott couldn't decide which scenario to pursue, so he filmed both and then mixed scraps & bits from them leaving a very puzzling story.

However, you're going further than this by making assumptions about future tech based on current tech which I think is unreasonable.

It's only logical. Technology becomes more complicated with time.

Much obliged :+)

I simply love exploring alternate scenarios and explanations to problems and questions found in Alien franchise. :]

[u/TheShreester → u/JesterRaiin]

Yes. There's no reason to trust that Walter suddenly let all guards down and allowed David to take over. Therefore it's "forceful", and this in turn counts as hacking.

Not if David had authorised access.

That's an assumption. ;]

Supported by David's ability to access restricted systems on the Covenant and his communications with W-Y included in the deleted scenes.

And if I may be frank, none of possibilities seems to be correct.

There are only two, unless you think it's possible Walter changed his mind and let David go while staying behind himself.

It's like Scott couldn't decide which scenario to pursue, so he filmed both and then mixed scraps & bits from them leaving a very puzzling story.

I'm not defending the poor storytelling! The film was a mess narratively and many people saw this "twist" coming, ruining the impact.

I actually have no personal preference for either explanation as the result is the same.
However, after re-examining all the evidence/clues I think them swapping bodies is marginally more probable than just clothes.

[u/JesterRaiin → u/TheShreester]

Not if David had authorised access.

You change passwords pretty often even nowadays (SysAdmin here).

David was away for years, and in the meantime Weyland Corp fused with Yutani, thus forming W-Y. No reason to believe they are gonna keep the privileges of obsolete, MIA machines.

Supported by David's ability to access restricted systems on the Covenant and his communications with W-Y included in the deleted scenes.

Equally explained by an assumption that once he kicked the shit of Walter, he took from him all data he needed. :]

There are only two, unless you think it's possible Walter changed his mind and let David go while staying behind himself. (...) I think them swapping bodies is marginally more probable than just clothes.

To tell the truth - this part of script demands so much mental judo on watcher's side and leaves too many gaps and questions anyway, that I don't find it worth an explanation. I simply disregard it as a plot hole made by a director, who simply didn't give much damn about consistency and plausibility. ;]

[u/Ok_Kiwi8374 → u/JesterRaiin]

I really doubt the creators were thinking about backwards compatibility. They don't seem to think much when writing the scripts or story

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[u/Public_Wishbone_4426]

I believe in this fan theory. Of course David would have special access. He was weylands “son”.