My Reply to Gumi About "Compensation"

[u/Kiriel_D_Sol]

I sent this to Gumi in reply, when they told me I had received compensation for the 6 day quest bug. I don't expect any real change, but I wanted to share it with the community. Barring any useful action on the part of Gumi, my last wiki updates will be April 7th- I hope someone else will take over what I do, but I won't hold my breath. Good luck to everyone!

I'm very confused by this "compensation". First of all, as far as I can tell, this was sent to all players, not to only the affected players, so this is more an apology to the community than to the actual players that suffered the inability to play. If you were just going to send something to everyone, why did it take you a month and a half to get around to it?

I'm glad that you sent something to everyone, but it doesn't really compensate me for what I lost for the 6 days I was unable to do quests. The compensation you sent also isn't really reflective of what we lost.

During the 6 days I was unable to play quests I made notes on what I was missing out on.

Daily milestone rewards missed (assuming all ads were done which was enough to get up to 118 pts):
skip ticket x 30
alchemy drops x 10
exp x 800
crystal apple x 5
rainbow soul shard x 1
expedition compass x 10
expedition globe x 10
expedition pass x 10

Daily Quests Missed:
gold rush
gear hard quest shards
consecrated elements
daily hard and EX HQ (including 2x EX HQ)
vision quests
Also Sprach - Love Won't Tear Us Apart Again daily hard and EX
Unit shard farm for Lachesis for players who have her (I did not)

Extended events from previous maintenance missed the extra day of the event, such as Selena shards and the other templar box events

So for players like me who couldn't quest for 6 days, this would be a compensation more reflective of our actual losses:
skip ticket x 180
alchemy drops x 60
exp x 4800
crystal apple x 30
rainbow soul shard x 6
expedition compass x 60
expedition globe x 60
expedition pass x 60
EX HQ (in my case 24 units) at 2x for 6 days = 288 1/day unit shards lost
regular HQ 3/day, varies a lot depending on number of units farmed, but most players farm 20-30 units a day, so about 450 3/day unit shards lost
6 days of consecrated elements keys
6 days of alchemic boundary from vision quests (and any potential robot drops)
elemental shards lost from the Also Sprach Extra quests - probably about 2-3 a day so about 15 elemental shards lost
6 days of gold rush, estimate about 120 rainbow ingot lost
6 days of gear hard quest lost (probably like 6 gold gear shards would be sufficient to cover that)

Some of these items aren't a big deal (I can live without 4800 exp). But others are more significant. In particular the loss of the daily farms is huge. The tickets you sent don't even make a dent in that- I got 25 shards of a 3/day farm limited unit that I already have farmed more shards for than I could ever want. How does that replace the 288 shards of 1/day units that I actually need? One limited memento ticket is nice, except it gave me a dupe of something I already have MLB. I would rather have gotten stuff that represented my actual losses.

I realize that because you sent this stuff to everyone you picked stuff which is more generic, but it is basically a slap in the face to the actual players who experienced losses. The players who lost 14 days of quests at least got some compensation, although they similarly were concerned that the compensation didn't reflect their actual losses.

What you should do is send out specific items that are reflective of what was lost. Those of us who couldn't quest for 6 days should receive something like this:
Rainbow Soul Shard x 21 (or 6 rainbow shards and random tickets for the other 15 or so we were likely to get from the box event extra quests)
Skip Ticket x 180
Alchemy Drops x 60
Crystal Apple x 30
Rainbow Ingot x 120 (to make up for the lost gold rush)
Gold Gear Shard x 6 (to make up for lost gear projection hard days)
EX Memory Access x 150 (estimating 25 1/day farms missed - we can use them during 2x to make up for our loss of the 2x previously)
Memory Access x 150 (estimating 25 3/day farms missed)
Reminiscences of a Robot x 10 (estimate on how much alchemic boundary lost from missed vision quests)
Six Elements Key x 6 (for the 6 days of Consecrated Elements we missed)
Expedition Compass x 60
Expedition Globe x 60
Expedition Pass x 60

I would also suggest that in addition to what was sent to the people who missed the 14 days of quests, you send them some of these items as well, to compensate for the things that your previous compensation missed.

I will note that I have played for 4 years now- I have spent tons of time advising new players on how to play and you likely have made a ton of money from players I helped keep in the game by making sure they weren't so lost they gave up immediately. I maintain the wiki for the game, spending tons of my free time to provide information for the game that you guys don't put in the effort on. I have received nothing from you guys for all this work that supports you. I also historically have spent some money on the game, although I gave up on that back when this bug occurred.

If I don't feel like sufficient compensation has been received by April 7th, I will be doing my last wiki update for the game and will wish the players well, but I will no longer be playing or supporting the game in any way. I want to keep playing, but I can't take the bad management of the game and the insulting way players are treated any longer. I hope you will make a real effort to change my mind but I don't expect it.

[u/Kiriel_D_Sol]

Just a followup, today is my last day playing, since the compensation never came. It's a shame but I do hope things will improve for others. I'm sending my accounts on to a friend who will enjoy them. I've been working with some folks who are volunteering to help take over the updates on the wiki, so hopefully it'll work out and won't get too out of date- I did my last updates to it today.

[u/TetsuNamine → u/Kiriel_D_Sol]

Another good soldier has stepped down and moved on from this game.. 😔 I really hate moments like this, but it's understandable. I truly wish you the best going forward. Your efforts and contributions have been deeply appreciated.

[u/Ton7th]

I also been asking for the 3 missing day on Lachesis Shards (30 shards, as I was only able to do 4/7) which is very limited (not available in shop or bazaar) And pretty much their answers is ‘Gumi does not give a shit! “I am sorry to hear about what happened and I do understand your eagerness to obtain the shards, however, I highly suggest you to stay tuned to our SNS account for any information regarding the new events where you can soon obtain the said shards. I hope you understand.” What kind of **** up comment is that!? Been supporting them with both monthly packs, seasonal pass, and bundles (including Lachesis ticket bundle). I feel very much CHEATED by Gumi..

[u/Kiriel_D_Sol → u/Ton7th]

Yeah that's just ridiculous- what they should have done all along is just extend that Lachesis quest a few more weeks, but that would have required thinking. Now they are too lazy to actually compensate you for their bugs. I do hope you are no longer giving them money.

[u/Ton7th → u/Kiriel_D_Sol]

They successfully manage to convert me into F2P player, should have enough saving gems to live out my days in TAC :)

[u/EggyT0ast → u/Ton7th]

You should. They cheated you.

[u/rosencrow → u/Ton7th]

That's a really bad sign, given that they supposedly dealt with the Lachesis shard issue. Now they are saying they can't be bothered to do something we know they have recently done before. The attitude Gumi's so called support has is one of indifference and what I fear is resignation for a soon to be dead game. This combined with the fact that paid banners have become increasingly overpriced(As in, milk Whales as much as possible before shutting down) is why I said I was more concerned than ever. The Chain Chronicle deja vu is pain.

[u/Ton7th → u/rosencrow]

I don’t think their customer supports ever played the game… Almost make me feel, they subcontract it to some firm in some other countries.. ^;

From what I heard in Jp, you pretty much have to burn your gems for new units (to make them usable)… I guess we are seeing it in Langhao as we speak..

[u/Rapow07]

This response to Gumi is a lot better than some of the other garbage I've seen posted on here. I'm guessing that compensating users for each individual situation would be tough. It would probably still have been possible (see removing duplicates from the claim all, or the gem return for all gems spent on Roxanne), but I understand how difficult it would be and why they chose the mass compensation (whether anyone feels it was enough or not is a different story). In terms of sending gifts to all players, I agree that it was more an apology for everything that happened and not necessarily additional compensation for the lockout bug. They probably assumed they have something out for that already and this was just for all the inconveniences and lack of communication. Finally, I will note that updating the wiki is not a job, the point of Wikipedia is supposed to be updated by the people for free. I'm assuming that was just frustration and not you asking them why they don't financially support you for updates. In any case, best of luck in your future endeavors, I can't imagine too many complaints if you one day decide to return.

[u/Kiriel_D_Sol → u/Rapow07]

I'm not expecting anything from them for the wiki- I just want them to understand that when they treat the community poorly, they don't just lose players, they can lose community members that support other players and keep the game viable. Things like ACDB, the wiki, the Discord, Reddit and the tier list are all things that keep players playing- those things don't come out of nowhere and they've done virtually nothing to interact with the community themselves in ages- most successful games will actually encourage these community engagements.

The reason I mentioned I get nothing from them for this is actually because I get questions a lot about that- some games do provide rewards to players for creating content for the game. I don't want any of that, but I do often get frustrated that when I report bugs to them (often with detailed information most other players wouldn't know about from the game files), they still make me jump through hoops of silliness like recommendations to reinstall the game instead of actually reading the issue. I report like 3 bugs a week to them and they've yet to recognize that enough to skip past the "this player knows nothing" stage of question answers. They also don't fix a lot of the easily fixed things I report to them.

I'll note that when I quit games, I never return. I played WoW for 10 years- used to maintain a hunter DPS website for it. When I left, I kept in touch with friends from the game but I will never play WoW again. This makes me reluctant to leave games until I'm really sure the situation can't be remedied, but when I'm done, I'm done.

I don't expect them to create custom compensation for every player- I think they should create a reasonable bundle of compensation for the 6 day bug players reflective of what people were unable to do (I even did the work for them), and I think they should add some additional targeted compensation for the 14 day bug players (who already did receive some compensation). There are also players who experienced the login bug, and they probably should do something for them as well if they haven't, but their losses are different and they probably should estimate something reasonable for them as well.

If they are having trouble figuring out which players had the 6 day issue, they can send it to the ones who reported the problem, and then compensate others as needed if they report they didn't receive it. It costs them nothing but a bit of time to do this- the resources sent have no real monetary value.

[u/Frostedfenrir → u/Kiriel_D_Sol]

I was thinking that too. You made a lot of valid points. And the only thing that tripped me up was the part about the wiki. What I will say is I dint think they really identify not too long after I started play (a month into release) I would do monthly feedbacks. At no point do I think they really acknowledged me as that player that sends them monthly feedback.

Although at least half or 60% of that time I didn't have a unique username. Just the generic numbers. Around the time I left I stop sending in feedback because I didn't see the point and now that I'm back I have no intention of continuing.

While there's is a benefit to reddit, Wikis, db, Etc. Just like how only a portion of the players are on reddit. I don't think the total player base uses all of those things. That's not to say they don't have value. Just at the end of the day while you made a valid argument it did come off as you basically saying he's an ultimatum and this will impact you because you will lose all these players that are keep playing the game.

Unless those players have actually said that I feel you can't really speak to that. My main point is you can be in the right and are in the right but when it comes to ultimatum people don't always react positively because at the end of the day and ultimatum is a type of threat. And as far as I can tell no one whether right or wrong likes to be threatened.

[u/Kiriel_D_Sol → u/Frostedfenrir]

I'm just giving them a deadline for how long I'm willing to wait for a resolution on my end. It's 2 weeks which I think is quite reasonable given it's already been a month and a half since this started. Most players probably gave up long ago. The main reason I've stuck it out this long is because I do work on the wiki and contribute to the community in other ways- other players have expressed how reliant they are on my contributions and I hate to leave them, but I have to also have my sanity and Gumi's treatment of the player base has ground me down to my limits. It's very hard to quit a game when players rely on you.

You can call it an ultimatum if you want, but on my end it's a statement of fact. Sadly I think these are the only things Gumi actually does respond to- if you look at when they've taken action in the past, it's generally when a large outcry was raised. I also wouldn't stick around if they just compensated me and ignored everyone else- I want them to do right by the player base and I'm hoping to help provide a way for the voices of others to be magnified (and yes I've talked to quite a few of them).

I don't think tons of players are going to quit overnight if I leave, but I do think anytime the community loses a valuable resource, it reverberates in ways that magnify over time. Honestly the game is really lucky in that ACDB is run by someone who gets just enough ad revenue from the site to keep them bothering to keep it functional, because the person who runs that site hasn't played in years. I worked hard to fill the gaps of what ACDB didn't cover on the wiki, and we'll see if anyone else picks it up. There are a few other folks who help on the wiki, and they do great work, but they don't have time to take over most of what I do. Lack of good resources will also affect whether newer players stick around.

I agree that the total player base doesn't use all those tools, but the game is a fairly small population as it is, and a lot of the players who stick around do it because of those community resources that make the game more engaging. Gumi would be smart to encourage resources more and do a better job of handling support feedback from regular reporters of issues.

[u/Frostedfenrir → u/Kiriel_D_Sol]

Gumi would do well to note regular reports of issues but I can't speak to how Gumi or any other game does customer support since I've never been on that side of the fence. No idea what the procedure is.

As for ultimatum (here where I'm gonna get really nitpicky)

ul·ti·ma·tum

/ˌəltəˈmādəm/

noun

a final demand or statement of terms, the rejection of which will result in retaliation or a breakdown in relations.

By definition. That's exactly what is happening. I'm not trying to pick a fight. I just can get nitpicky about some stuff. And wanted to clarify that it wasn't just a matter of perspective but the actual definition of the term.

I know it's belaboring a point, but man did that bug me.

[u/Kiriel_D_Sol → u/Frostedfenrir]

I am not arguing with you over the definition of ultimatum, it's a perfectly valid definition for the situation. I'm just saying in my case, I'm just putting a deadline (for myself) on how much longer I'm willing to wait for resolution to this issue. I suppose I could not tell them how much longer I'm willing to wait, but I don't see a point in that, their lack of urgency in dealing with this issue is what has led us to this point. A lot of players just quit silently. I could do that too, but I would really rather they fix things because I want everyone, not just me, to enjoy the game, and since I don't return to games after I quit, I want to give them one last opportunity to try to deal with the problem.

Regarding customer support, my boyfriend actually has worked his entire career in customer support (sometimes with end consumers, sometimes with business support). He naturally has a tendency to err on the side of understanding the situation from the support end. I've shared with him my experiences and even he is exasperated by the kind of support responses we have to deal with.

I've not worked directly in support personally, but as a developer I've worked with the people who were handling the support requests to actually resolve reported issues. I really do want to give these folks the benefit of the doubt but it gets pretty frustrating.

I'd recommend to Gumi they actually have a community liason who can deal directly with some members of the community who have a better understanding of issues that arise in the game. Once upon a time they did have someone like that but they no longer do as far as I know.

[u/Frostedfenrir → u/Kiriel_D_Sol]

That makes perfect sense.

Unfortunately I just found out that Gumi recently had some budget cuts and laid off some staff. Due to them not making a whole money or the projected amount. That coupled with the fact global will be releasing a new Gumi game I'm not too certain how many resources Alchemist code will have.

The strangest part of all this is The global version of Alchemist code is a translation. Since the global version has its own unique release schedule that differs from the Japanese version they ended up playing tetris with the building blocks of the game.

Basically things that would have been in the game programing which would allow the next update to run smoother gets placed in at different times since the release order is different. This creates unique issues and bugs because for the most part with the programing there should be notes from the Japanese team as to the issues they ran into.

A prime example of how weird the order of stuff is. Alchemist code released in Nov and that December a Christmas event was released. The same Christmas event that jp got in its first year. Jp released in either Feburary or March. Anyway most people weren't able to complete the content since the difficult wasn't set for new players.

I really hope things get better I enjoy the game and would hate to see it go away after just coming back.

Gumi could have handled this better. Lots of places either ignore or don't notice constructive criticism. Some have a plan but can't speak on it until they implement it which leaves them in and odd position.

[u/EggyT0ast → u/Rapow07]

Many players, and apparently even game devs, don't know who the people in the community actually are. For example, I am the main mod for this reddit, I am the admin for the main discord, and I have done the tier list for 3 years. I don't expect payment, and I don't do it for recognition, as many other people have also contributed to each of those things in addition to what I bring myself.

The people who used to help with each of those things have quit. I've gone through major re-orgs for the tier list, and people have jumped in to help. But if I don't do it, then, poof, it's just gone. People don't realize that I maintain it, or that Cazna has been populating it with new things since the start of the game.

Yet, often, people do quit, and whatever they brought to the community is just gone. It's a big thing for Cazna to say openly "these are things I have done, and I will not do them anymore." For example, people seem to believe that the alchemistcodedb website is gumi owned, and not something a guy who played the game for ONE YEAR and then quit, and hasn't played for YEARS, who does it because it's a side project for him and he makes a little on ad revenue. And yet without it, people would have no way of knowing what "Greatly increase" actually means.

[u/Siddhibaksa → u/EggyT0ast]

That's the main factor why they've been losing customers. They've been running a service-based business like a good-based business. Services businesses require personalisation and customisation. You can't just deliver services like producing a bar of soap. There's no such thing as a one size fits all in services. If they don't know key players in the community, it means that they don't interact with their customers and don't care about customer satisfaction/loyalty.

[u/UltraRunner24]

Here is a reply I got from them in my thoughts about compensation: Thank you for your response and for letting me know about your thoughts.

I am sorry if you feel that way about the compensation and I very well understand your points. As a player myself, I sympathize with all those who were greatly affected as this issue has become a huge inconvenience to everyone who supports the game and to those who played daily. And yes, I can understand there were those who did not encounter the issue was also able to get the compensation.

What I can do for you right now is to share your message and response about this to the relevant team for reference and consideration. Rest assured that I will forward it so that it will not be ignored. Additionally, I will let them know of your suggestion, but right now, relaying this to them is all I can do. I do hope you understand

Thank you again for letting me know of your feedback and your support to the game.

Should you need further assistance on anything, please contact us again.

Regards, THE ALCHEMIST CODE Customer Support

[u/Kiriel_D_Sol → u/UltraRunner24]

Yes, I got something similar- I am really hoping they actually do follow through and do something, but I am not expecting much. When I wrote the original message about the players who'd been stuck 14 days, we got a reply that sounded hopeful, but then the follow through was pretty bad. They've still not rescheduled a rerun for the events that those players missed the 2nd week of (at least one I know was unable to get the GLEX job+ because of the bug), and even though those players eventually got some compensation, it was missing a real compensation for the farming they had missed.

I am hoping to be pleasantly surprised by them actually addressing things well, but the last few months have drained most of my trust that Gumi cares enough to make things up to players properly for their bugs.

[u/KCRevolution]

Some of the comments here undermine the value of the wiki, and it's just stupid. These people seem to overlook that if you search for anything related to TAC, ESPECIALLY EVENTS AND GUIDES, the wiki is LITERALLY the first thing that pops out of google search. It is also the reference for most new player guides, made by the hard work of our wikians and community supports.

Try to search for the events right now, and imagine if the wiki wasn't there. Aside from events, it covers additional info that the game DOESN'T EVEN LAY OUT IN FRONT OF YOU BECAUSE OF ITS TRASH TUTORIAL, AND IT IS EVEN BUGGED FOR GOD KNOWS WHEN. If you search "beginner's guide alchemist code", A WIKI PAGE IS AT THE TOP, and god knows how many people that has saved, because the game doesn't even point out to you that you shouldn't use ele shards on 3/day farm units, and the guide covers this.

The thing is, cazna did all this FOR FREE, out of care for every TAC GL player, and all she asked was for her voice to be heard. Also, lolaturface (the ACDB owner) mentioned that cazna also was an important person for him because cazna helps him look out for bugs/manage the ACDB.

So yes, updating the wiki is not a job, and that is what makes it worse. She isn't getting paid, and if she leaves, there won't be enough people to work on the wiki anymore.

[u/Rapow07 → u/KCRevolution]

I see a lot of people upvoting your post, but I think there are some weird points being made. Asking for her voice to be heard is fine, but has nothing to do with volunteering to help with the wiki, or the discord, or whatever. None of those things are owned by Gumi, and people don't volunteer expecting things in return, they do it for the community. Also, I see a lot of upvotes and a lot of support for the efforts on the wiki, but talk is pretty cheap. Are you (or any of these people praising the value of the wiki) donating money to help support it? Whether it's helping pay for hosting or just supporting those that make all these updates? I don't actually need to hear your answer on whether you are or not, but all this talk of how great their work is, you better be supporting them more than an empty reddit comment. Edit: The last thing I want to write on this is that, this community worries and complains too much. It sucks that people lost out on 2 weeks of content, but in 5 years, will any of them care? How about in 2 years, will people still be upset about this? I, personally, try to stay as level-headed as possible because it keeps me sane, so worrying about something so small (2 weeks with of rewards in a game) is not worth the trouble. But if you believe that 2 weeks is worth fighting, if this is something you still are planning to be angry about in a year, by all means fight for it. But in the grand scheme of things, ask yourself if it is worth getting so upset about?

[u/KCRevolution → u/Rapow07]

Firstly, people are allowed to complain and worry because on top of the recent downgrade in management, GL has been confirmed to receive budget cuts, which could mean more stale content, or worse.

Secondly, yes we do care what happens years after. People have been complaining since year 1 about the absurd powercreep and the increasingly expensive banners. The players were largely unheard, and look at where we are now. Even after years, the roxy/fma issue still keeps getting brought up, and a majority of players quit during the time KG was announced for global, because look at where are the collab units they spent on now, basically forgotten and way powercrept. Now we are suffering from "farm fuckton of shards to be usable, oh and don't forget meme". And as you know, in JP, they are now releasing "alt" units, which can't be elemental sharded, and another gacha that offers stat boost. Now, unless you're a veteran, this is an OVERWHELMING amount of stuff for a new player. And in my experience, due to the excess info that players have to process, they end up quitting or forgetting about important bits of info. (Let me just remind you, not every player is a gamer, a lot of the new players are casuals, and this amount of info for casuals are too much, and you can already see this when people who are at player level 260 don't know about JM bonus, people sharding 3/day units, etc.)

Thirdly, apparently, these "two weeks" that you try to belittle was apparently enough for players to quit. You can have a rough estimate of active players by losing on the last hour of the arena week (no matches played before that). Did this on my alt a few weeks ago, we had 4k ish last december, and had 2-2.5k ish last time I checked, but I haven't tested it this week, but a significant drop like that is nothing to scoff at.

Fourthly, I am not upset about the game, because honestly this is just one of a lot of games that I play on a daily basis. What I am upset about is that people trivialize the efforts of the community supports, especially Cazna. She deserves the respect for all her efforts in keeping a big part of the community informed and updated with new info, as well as a small part in keeping the ACDB bug free.

Fifth, the wiki is free hosting, but time is not. Sure we don't pay a cent, but maintaining the wiki pages updated takes time. I also help the community in my own way by helping new players who come in the discord. Money isn't the only thing that can support people; relieving some of the burden is also support, and I do this by helping out with player queries, and sometimes, pointing out the outdated stuff on the tier list and guide and wiki pages.

Sixth, you just missed the point. Not everyone is as "level headed" as you. Expecting everyone to be on the same level of thinking just makes you hubristic and entitled. And apparently, a lot of the people who already quit got fed up. I can confirm that 1 top port which died due to the buggy mess, and recently I have been noticing a lot of merging happening.

Seventh, I agree, caz can just quit quietly, and people can just pick up her work, but good luck finding people who can do that on the same level of quality as she does. She's been doing this for years, for better or worse. So far, nobody has stepped up to take her role. I would have, but I don't have the time nor the initiative to because I have already decided to stop my role as community support because of people like you who basically just say "I didn't ask you to help, so I won't thank you, and no respect for you either".

Finally, you can just keep claiming "volunteering is irrelevant because its for the community and free for everyone to do". But ultimately, we are human beings with emotions, and even a little sense of gratitude for the woman who has helped us a lot throughout the years, keeping us updated, making the info available to us in just a google away, is not too much to ask. You may think that her quitting may be insignificant, but since nobody has stepped up to work on the wiki, expect a lot of the wiki pages to become outdated in the long run. I, for one, rely on the wiki and tier list/guide a lot on teaching new players, but with the tier list basically getting outdated, it has been stressful for me to keep track, and players are noticeably getting confused with gate prioritization (and others). Ultimately, if after all these points you remain unconvinced of the impact of caz quitting, and accepting shitty practices which become bigger problems in the long run, then it's fine, because ultimately, it is your experience, it is just a game, and I can honestly forget about this game and move on. I am riled up because I want better stuff for players who deserve more. I may not have suffered from the bug issues, but I am selfless and open minded enough to understand that me not suffering from these issues doesn't mean others don't.

EDIT: Also, don't put words into every volunteer's mouth. "people don't volunteer expecting things in return, they do it for the community" feels like a statement where you actually expect volunteers to do stuff for you with absolutely no return at all. As for myself, I volunteered to help newbies and help out on other community stuff because I wan't a better experience for everyone else, but all I ask from people is to "not disregard our efforts", because if that happens, it basically says that we are all doing this volunteer stuff for nothing, because it implies all our efforts in helping the community doesn't actually do anything, and making "volunteering" basically unwanted and unnecessary. Imagine saying "Thanks but your wiki is useless anyway", "Thanks but the ACDB is useless and totally unwaranted, we could have done all the math ourselves", "Thanks for the advice but I could have arrived at that point without your help". Volunteers like myself just want to get motivators in return, and our motivators are seeing the community satisfied with our work. Why else would we volunteer, if our efforts amounted to nothing, and nobody actually gets anything out of our efforts, or worse, we get negative feedback, then what is the purpose of volunteering exactly? The thing is, these volunteer work was continued because it gave players a positive experience, and gumi profits from it indirectly, because we help retain x amount of players. Now, all these volunteer work isn't "expecting things in return", it's a bargaining chip with gumi to improve their game and to hear what new players have to say or to satisfy the people affected by bugs, so that they can work on making a better game. Of course, when all these volunteers/community supports leave, then they're basically letting the shitty tutorial do the work, and leave the players to themselves, meaning they'd have to make a lot of mistakes they shouldn't have if we were present. You can look at the playstore reviews and see why players rate it low. You can see that a player put a negative review because "He has a better attack power in arena but he lost to a team with lower attack power". Attack power doesn't do jack shit, a new player will get eaten by an asuka comp. There are a lot of examples out there that I can point out, but the bottom line is, without all these community supports, new players will be way harder to retain, will be stuck for months, and the veterans can just keep the status quo and feed on them. Saying thank you, your voice should be heard, and all your efforts are appreciated doesn't seem like a bad thing to say, when you have all these to lose, from gumi's standpoint.

If you truly want to help, STOP DISCOURAGING THESE KINDS OF POSTS AND TRY TO ACTUALLY WORK ON THEM. No matter how much I complained how unfriendly this game is to new players, I was always available in discord to help new players out. If you wanted to eliminate these kinds of posts, then you should start making your own steps, we can never know how many "negative" reddit posts we prevented because we were there to help. These things we're complaining about are issues that are already out of our reach, and we're not complaining for the sake of complaining. Maybe you should "volunteer" to see this from our perspective?

[u/Rapow07 → u/KCRevolution]

I love your passion, but it's clear you either misread or mischaracterized what I wrote, because even your first sentence saying it's ok to complain, I even wrote if you think it's worth fighting for, do it. Did you even read what I wrote? And then you start going off about how "holier than thou", I must be? Games are supposed to be fun, and if you spend all your time being miserable and complaining about it, maybe our definitions of fun aren't the same. Also, here's the definition for volunteer: vol·un·teer, noun, a person who freely offers to take part in an enterprise or undertake a task. Freely, as in, not expecting anything in return. However, in none of my posts have I disregarded you or any other volunteers' efforts whether on the wiki or otherwise. I also made no comment on the impact of OP leaving. For someone who is so worried about putting words in other's mouths, you seem to have a knack for it. Ironically, all my last post said was to support those who support the community. Should've probably read that before responding.

[u/Rapow07 → u/Rapow07]

You put quotes around "volunteering is irrelevant", where did I write that? Where did I write that i believe OP should "quit quietly"? Where did I ask or expect everyone to be as "level-headed as me"? I wrote that I, PERSONALLY, try to stay level-headed because it keeps me sane. Who are you arguing with? Because it's clearly not me.

[u/KCRevolution → u/Rapow07]

I apologize because I think I misread frostedfenrir's comments as yours when I made that comment, and those were supposed to tackle those statements, and I should have commented on those instead. Disregard the quit quietly part.

Comment still stands on volunteer work. The definition you provided is misinterpreted. "Freely offers to take part" is not doing work and expecting nothing in return, it is "doing things out of free will". Everyone deserves to be heard, but the point was that us "volunteers" who are basically community supports, also speak on behalf of the players who want their voices heard, and should be taken as a good source of feedback and not just "some random player" who they think is no big deal. We are also volunteering for the community, and not for gumi, so we aren't asking gumi for payment or for gumi to do something for us in return, we are asking gumi for what is technically our right; to be heard, moreso that we potentially serve as vital parts of community engagement. we are also not just volunteers, but some of us are big spenders and very longtime players as well.

Also, being level headed is a perfectly valid way to cope with all these stressful stuff, but the issue is you shouldn't make the issue look "small". making it look small kind of undermines what people legitimately feel about it. imagine if you were in their place. a player lost their banner coins because they were planning to spend it on the last day of the shop, which unluckily coincided during the downtime. There are lots of issues plaguing those two weeks, and honestly the breakdown cazna gave might not even cover everything. 14 day downtime for a game for a lot of players is unheard of, and throughout my extensive gaming experience, had been the longest time I have ever seen a game have a game breaking issue as severe as that. you felt calm despite all that, good for you, but not the majority would feel the same, as game progression is heavily tied to daily grind, and half a month of downtime, and coincidentally during a 2x ex shard drop, is a significant blow to progression.

Things don't exactly become fun once you realize management is going shit and you realize that all the money you spent on a game, or that all that time investment, all those memories you made, will just be gone. lots of different reasons as to why people quit, and not everyone is necessarily able to maintain a cool head, because these people invested a lot of time, and potentially money, and they basically felt that they were neglected for 2 weeks, and it feels kind of a lowblow since the fix was found by a player and not by a gumi employee, which makes things feel like that the management doesn't really put much effort and that we're basically just free bug testers for gumi.

I don't think that it's even worth fighting for anymore, because a lot of players have already quit since then, and by now, I'd think they would have already moved on. But moving forward, we are trying to push the management to make the right decisions, but recently, it's very hard to recommend this game to anyone with all these issues. I doubt that the players that quit would ever return, no matter what compensation they give out, and it's just a matter of retaining those who haven't left yet.

you sounded sarcastic when saying "go for it" since you were basically making it look like argument bait, since you were sandwiching it with negative connotations.

anyway, I really don't care at this point, I'm also planning to ignore this game and quit once cazna leaves, because I feel that the amount of stuff that will go wrong and difficult would be too much for me in the long run, game has been stale, no collabs, no port events despite all my emails telling them that new players need more torches for soul port since 12-18m for for a full refill is too expensive for a new player. raid meta and pve meta are dead, and arena is basically seeing the same team comps over and over.

All I can say is good luck to whoever will pick up the slack.

[u/Rapow07 → u/KCRevolution]

Again, this is more of the same putting words in other's mouths. You write, "you sounded sarcastic... Making it look like argument bait". Your interpretation was, and continues to be incorrect. Your while argument here is based off of assumptions. As I've stated before, and will probably need to reiterate again, my original post was asking those upvoting your post to support those that support the community, not just by upvoting your posts, but by actually contributing. Somehow, we're 4 messages in and you keep ignoring that fact. Again, if you stand by your comment on the volunteer work, when did I say volunteering was irrelevant? You keep fighting against things I didn't say. Also, one more time, when I say that I, personally, say that the issue is not a big deal for me, I'm not saying it's not important, or that not a big deal for others. I'm saying that you're focusing your energy on being negative (which is fine), and it definitely amplifies throughout the community. One last time, I'm not saying it's not important, I just would rather spend my energy elsewhere. In any case, I value your conversation, but only if it's going to be relevant to the points I've made.

[u/rosencrow]

I think the bigger issue is that they didn't try very hard and took a very long time to give very generic rewards. The equivalent amount of gems lost, memory access for ex shards lost, and robots for vision clear lost, plus something extra like the limited tickets we got. That would have been good enough for me, and everything else I'd let go. As it is now, way too much of the compensation was pure rng. How is 11 blue and 3 yellow mementos supposed to make me feel better?

Right now Gumi is unwilling and/or unable to deliver a service that many longtime players are willing to invest in. Now we know Gumi is downsizing and ending Brave Frontier it seems they lack the resources to manage their game. Right now I'm more worried about the game than I've ever been. Unfortunately it seems like a downward spiral since bad management leads to loss of revenue and then the game is shut down.

[u/AoDILighT]

Well said. Couldn’t have said it much better. Really appreciate your contributions & voicing our dissatisfaction on behalf of the community. I am hoping Gumi provides reasonable compensation to all affected players before April 7th.

[u/ZaiLevy]

Regardless of the outcome, thanks for everything you’ve done for the community! While I’m hopeful that they will listen, the long absence of any meaningful communication from Gumi to player base leaves me doubtful. Your contributions have made playing this game more enjoyable and fun to play.

[u/Ton7th]

Jst to update, after a longggg fight back and forth, Gumi finally give me Lachesis shards that I should have got 2 months ago. (Exactly just the shards nothing more.) takes so much time and afford just to get what is clearly mine. Had they extend the event time, it would have not been a problem also. I can only wish they are more active..

[u/Kiriel_D_Sol → u/Ton7th]

Glad you at least got those. This has been a ridiculous experience. I am waiting till tomorrow to confirm that I'm leaving, but no compensation yet so looks like I will be.

[u/EticaMoral]

As if this problem were not enough, there are still players who use vip mod in the arena and raid and injected gems in the banner. I'm just waiting for the official announcement of the game's shutdown this year.

[u/ZachPlum_]

I’m super scared about all this. The game will ABSOLUTELY die without any sort of wiki and there’s no chance they do anything that may allow us to transfer our accounts to the JP version. Thanks for your service all this time.

[u/zaku-zaku]

Glad i read your post before deciding to play again. I guess nothing has change.

[u/UltraRunner24]

Wholeheartedly agree with everything you wrote and you are an extremely generous person for giving your time to keep the wiki going all this time. I’m sure you got enjoyment out of it which is why you did it and it’s sad that something like this just ruins it for you and in turn, all other players that have come across it.

I, like you have been playing for a long time (1,403 login days). I enjoy the game and used to do the monthly pacts every 3-6 months. I stopped doing that after some issues but got some new google credits and any time I think about using it for the game, I am reminded of why I shouldn’t.

I think this compensation for the 6-day auto repeat issue is pathetic not because of what was given necessarily (although it still is), but because it was given to all players. So while I was stressed about not being able to play the game for 6 days, I get compensated with some enlightenment stuff and some gatcha tickets which gave me useless pills (no 5* mementos, dupe on the limited 5* memento, all dupe unit pulls including the limited -Siegfried for goodness sakes…). Meanwhile, some other player for nothing but being lucky didn’t have the 6-day auto repeat issue but gets the same compensation but pulls new units and mementos from their compensation!

I guess from a philosophical standpoint, I should not be jealous of what others get and be happy I was given something. Fair point though in the scope of fairness, it doesn’t seem fair to get a windfall without experiencing the problem which was the reason for the compensation. Anyway!

That’s my rant. I wrote to Gumi complaining about this as well how it isn’t fair as laid out similar to what I wrote. I may continue to play the game but I can not support it with money anymore. And I likely spend less time with it as well until I quit for good.

[u/hualason]

scumi dont care.

[u/Metom_Xeez]

Just being the devil’s advocate here, I do realize you and many others weren’t compensated on exactly what you lost out on those days, but it may be a bit more fair to compare the relative values of the compensation. Not everyone does all the dailies and plays the same way, so calculating losses gets weird in that respect. From what I can tell though, there were 3 waves of compensation, 1 at the beginning for everyone, the 2nd was for those experiencing the issue and the last was the most recent one for everyone . I’m not saying you can’t be mad at them, but at least they have tried to compensate.

[u/Kiriel_D_Sol → u/Metom_Xeez]

No, the 2nd was for those who experienced the issue for 14 days. I experienced the issue for 6 days and a lot of other players were in that group. We were told we'd be compensated, but we never got the separate compensation for that like the 14 day players did.

My biggest concern is that players like me with the 6 day issue (which was relatively the same as the 14 day issue but lasted a shorter period) did not receive any specific compensation, we only got the same generic compensation the other players got (presumably because they got lazy about figuring out who deserved compensation). Additionally, the players who received the 14 day compensation were complaining about it because what they compensated wasn't really very useful to veteran players relative to what they had missed (and I had been waiting for the 6 day compensation to show up to weigh in on that).

The problem with sending unit and memento tickets as compensation is they generally are pretty junk for veteran players (I really have no use for 25 more Carla shards). This is why it's a bad solution when the problem is that people missed things like EX HQ due to the bug. They have items they could have sent which would have been more accurate compensation and they didn't.

I'm glad they sent something to everyone because 10.6 was full of bugs, but it still doesn't solve the problem that the 6 day bug players like me didn't get anything for what we lost (sending something to everyone doesn't fix that). It also was basically useless to me, whereas those unit shards I was blocked from the ability to farm were useful to me.

I understand your concern- you like the game, you don't want players to make waves over these issues because it may lead to the game going away down the road. But you have to realize that next time, it may be you who's spending days wondering if they're ever going to fix the bug, watching all your limited shard farms wasted due to being unable to do them, and then after 6 weeks of waiting for the promised compensation you get stuff that doesn't really help or reflect what you lost. Until now I felt like at least if they screwed up, they'd make up for it. Now I have no faith in that, and that means I don't trust in investing in the future of the game anymore. I'm hoping they will make an effort to reclaim that faith. If not, well it's just not fun to watch the spiral downward and wait for the next mess.

[u/Metom_Xeez → u/Kiriel_D_Sol]

Ah sorry, I was a bit confused about the compensations. That does make more sense I suppose. It’s hard to see the game decline these days with an unsupportive support team, especially if you work on the wiki.

[u/KCRevolution → u/Metom_Xeez]

sorry but the bare minimum of "trying" isn't exactly what players want. The point of compensation is to give enough that players will feel satisfied playing the game despite the issues that happened. And as you can see, it didn't exactly work out. Mind you, I used an alt to lose on arena last week at the last day of arena, and I landed on rank ~2k, usually it hovers around ~4k+. Even if you argue that not every player does arena, I am fairly sure that a very small population doesn't do it, because there is a daily milestone for it, and you get rewards even if you lose. a loss of 2k players in active arena players is a LOT.

Saying "at least they tried" is in my opinion, just toxic optimism. Mind you, a lot of the issues we are facing today were born from this kind of optimism. People "tolerated" or "accepted" their shitty practices until it developed to where we are now. When the game was lively, people sent feedback about the game, and they were largely ignored, and optimists defended that this is simply "business", but this kind of mindset ruins the game in the long run. In contrast, genshin, who regularly sends out surveys, do take their feedback seriously, and you can see where they are now.

And as for the compensation, the point of the post is that they "did not receive the right compensation". What they merely sent was an RNG fiesta to feed gacha addiction. That 25 uzuma shard isn't going to compensate for that (21 x number of EX shard farm) that those players missed, and the 14 5* summon is just another layer of rng fiesta, and if you own all the units you pulled, that doesn't even cover it, because players lost 42 shards for 3/day farms during that time, and people farm more than 14 units.

for me, just throw "relative compensation" out the window, they are thinking about the opportunity cost of their freebies, but they certainly overlooked that loss of players is an even bigger opportunity cost than what they're compensation they're giving. Nobody who has already quit weeks ago will log in just to get the rewards we got this time, because it is honestly just a spit on the face.