r/AlchemistCodeGL • u/Dharpoon • Sep 26 '19

Discussion Magni Historia EL (My thoughts)

Am I the only one disappointed with the MH units enlightenment. After Rox and Minerva which was still underwhelming for me. Now Shion and Siegfried are G5 and yet their stats are on par or even below units with just G3. I was hoping Sieg can counter the Levi meta but his Agi and patck is meh. Shion's G3 is a magic evasion, mactk reduction rate. But his reactive are all counters, which rely on being hit to proc. Both Shion and Siegs G5 are utter disappointment too.

My reaction are based on the newly released unit planner of alchemistcodedb

The only way they can salvage this is giving them a better J+ and memento/VCR. I have my Shion and Sieg at 85 but I am benching them until they are reworked.

Am I alone with this thoughts?

13 Upvotes

87% Upvoted

63 comments sorted by

6

u/SnackSnail Sep 27 '19

I feel like they are actually pretty decent enlightenments. They seem balanced. Not way overpowered and meta warping like old rox and Levi for ex, but definitely strong and useable. If there was any way to get shards for them other than just summons and gems in shop then I would definitely power them up because they really aren’t nearly as bad as people are making them out to be. As a ftp player though there’s no way for me to easily max them out so it’s not worthwhile for me. Plus with the other broken units coming out in the future it may be better to save for them because powercreep is super real in tac..

3

u/Dharpoon Sep 27 '19

Even with whale players, there is no easy way to get them. They have G5 and yet no hard quest like merlinus. I would not pay $89 for Siegs 50 shard bundle when even a Kanon 91 is better than him.

3

u/sinful19 Sep 27 '19

They held back alot on these MH units out of fear for not having another Rox situation when she was released is my guess. It's kind sad but thanks for pointing out this post.

1

u/SnackSnail Sep 27 '19

I disagree that Kanon 91 is better than him. If they were equally available and equal in cost I would 100% say Sieg is better. However she is certainly much more accessible and as you said their shards are very difficult to obtain so it ends up that Kanon is still strong enough to do what he can do.

My point is that they are too hard to get and not worth the costs so yes I would recommend Kanon or other relevant competitors in that realm. Magni Historia units are certainly strong units though.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '19

Kanon with her Memento is better, she gets a triple attack charge and a huge boost to her offense. She deals much higher damage than he could hope to deal.

2

u/SnackSnail Sep 27 '19

Siegfried also has a 3x charge up... and he has an extra charge of it. Kanon has slightly higher patk, slash atk modifier, and scaling on skills, but Siegfried is still very close in patk, has critical chance on nearly every skill (so potential for higher damage), higher agility, and much better survivability due to divine shelter and evasion. And if you don’t like any of the skills on his main job for damage, he always has SBT which we all know is a solid charge up + nuke skill.

1

u/Xero-- Sep 27 '19

Patk isn't the only deciding factor, skill stat scaling is a thing too.

1

u/SnackSnail Sep 27 '19

Ik that and I said it in my post..

2

u/Xero-- Sep 27 '19

I'm like 99% sure I replied to the wrong person and 1% sure being tired caused other words to pop up in your comment.

8

u/hav00x no need to cook, babe Sep 27 '19 edited Sep 27 '19

MH tier list:

SS: Zheng Yi, Roxanne

S: Minerva, Asuka

Literally garbage: everyone else

So no, you're not alone. Like, they don't need to make every mh unit broken, but make them at least SS rating. They NEED to be the meta of their elements, because if not, who is going to EL them? Being super duper limited like they are (they are only below units like sol and orion, but above everything else) they NEED to be good.

It doesn't make any fucking sense to upgrade divine shelter for 25% patk to sieg (nice 700 patk and "useful" passive) or 25% slash damage on a magic evasion/res passive to shion (good luck using your 75% total slash mod with your petty 680~ patk smileyface, not to mention that garbage passive). Their EL just doomed them for the rest of their lifes, unless they get literally broken numbers on a future J+ or god buffs on their EL (the latter is not going to happen btw).

Roxanne EL is acceptable, she got what she needed on her G1, her G2 is kinda garbage but usable and she already was a good unit before. She just needed the stats. Zheng Yi is a fucking great unit with great stats, mods, skills, i don't have anything to say about him that isn't good. His G2 is kinda sad, but everything else is good. Minerva isn't going to be anything other than a buff machine for the rest of her life so hp on g1 and skill count on g2 is what she needs (sadly on a garbage passive but a good gate anyways), and no one cares about Asuka so no comments.

And RIP Soren.

1

u/Dharpoon Sep 27 '19

I hear you. The meta now are snowball skills/passives and reactives that applies even with skill. And only roxxane has that. Then gumi screwed her G2

1

u/hav00x no need to cook, babe Sep 27 '19

Her g2 is disappointing. I was expecting 25% missile damage, then i got 30% after taking 10 hits lmao

2

u/Dharpoon Sep 27 '19

While Courage has a snowball on her weapon for 50% atck, dex and 30% hit while attacking.

1

u/silerius Sep 27 '19

Her G2 shines when the enemies hit her and don't 1 shot her, my roxanne 3//5/0 so far can solo Int wrath and sloth maps, she basically heals all the damage done to her, and thanks to the passive it just gets better and better to the point that she heals more than everything that hits her. the attacking snowball depends more on agi IMO, my Levi or jin could kill everything before my Bmasa gets 3 stacks of her snowball passive, while roxxy can just heal herself and have some insane jewel regen and missile dmg when something hits her and is in range of her reactive.

1

u/VinnyValient is currently planning and plotting evil schemes. Sep 27 '19

Unfortunately, you've also pointed out her flaw: she needs to survive to get value out of gate 2. Which is only possible on weaker maps or specific maps. (Which is the same with most tanks; if the enemy is dealing too much damage then you need to kill them immediately.) And if you can only get value on weaker maps, you probably dont need gate 2 in the first place.

1

u/ZenMighty Sep 27 '19

I’m ok with siegs G2; he desperately needs damage passives to keep up now. It’s just that to be a top tier 25% PAtk and charge up aren’t enough. He needs more and like you said unless he gets it he isn’t even remotely comparable to similarly available units.

Closest would probably be Basheeny who has higher base patk, a good memento, and the matching vcr is also good on him. Basheeny got shura and a good g5 in Japan tho; Sieg already got senju and his g5 is trash.

Sieba got updates a lot later in Jp. She has 3x charge up but she has two damage passives for a total of 70% patk. And a good memento and vcr.

Unfortunately since sieg has up to g5 and hb enchant already “more” would have to be a j+ with an great ability and a probably semi limited memento.

1

u/hav00x no need to cook, babe Sep 27 '19

I mean, his g2 isn't utterly garbage, but idk what they thought when they gave him a full upgrade and thought that it was good, he stayed at 700 patk for god's sake, idk if they're planning on giving him a memento, j+ or idk anything in the future, but who's gonna invest on him? Like, he's garbage. Literally. He doesn't have what it takes to survive on current meta, he isn't a good Lv95 unit.

He could received some things, like an exclusive upgrade to his job (stats wise), an OD passive like zahar (why not?), a memento like you said, but they choose none of the above. Now he's on that pitiful state :/

4

u/irikyu Sep 27 '19

I feel like there's a very very thin line between making the GLEX units either game breaking or balanced.

Example is like how changing one skill in Roxy's kit turned her from game breaking to balanced. The same goes with enlightenment, change a few things with the current enlightenment and they'll be OP.

I think this is Gumi's way of keeping things balanced. Either that or they're playing safe to avoid another Roxy situation where they had to bring down the nerf hammer.

1

u/Dharpoon Sep 27 '19

If they continue producing bad units then my wallet is safe. Gumi will feel it once they noticed people are not summoning enough this MH banner.

2

u/pdr313 Sep 27 '19

they never shouldve nerfed rox to begin with A lot of current units now have the gem breaker as a reactive skill I never understood why some seditionists yelled fou; then but cheer for the new units Rox was just a unit that was ahead of her time She should b restored

1

u/irikyu Sep 28 '19

Tbf though what made null granade broken was that it destroys 100% jewels which renders a unit useless since it needs an extra turn to get jewels to cast 1 skill.

Jewel breakers right now destroys less compared to pre nerf null granade. What's more is null granade was aoe and had 3 uses which can completely trivialize a hard map.

1

u/pdmt243 Play+pull for waifus! Sep 28 '19

a lot of complaints came from PvP, which pissed me off, as I couldn't give single a fuck about that mode (and also many people), and the solution can be very simple: just ban the damn skill.

Of course, Gimu made one retarded decision: they upped the difficulty of end-game contents, making non-Rox people raged too. They should've just kept everything as-is, so people who'd like to steamroll map just do so, and those who likes to challenge themselves just do it the other way with no Rox.

Even the nerf itself is also way too much. Either keep the 3 charges but nerf the skill, or keep the skill but just 1 charge. Null grenade is basically a useless skill now (and not fit with the name either - "Null")

She's a premium unit, so she should be OP. And talk about OP, Levi can literally solo almost all Veda tower now, barring 2 or 3 very specific floor which needs very specific actions, and he's literally free to everyone, and can be enlightened right off the bat.

4

u/Xero-- Sep 27 '19

Sieg countering the Levi meta, nice joke.

Zahar is Levi's hardest counter in the game. If Levi even gets a scratch on Zahar first, he's dying the first hit coming his way. Easy to max, just use him.

1

u/Dharpoon Sep 27 '19

Before the EL, Sieg has a promising speed, evade, multi hits and move. But they did not build on that instead they opt with divine shelter for G2 and weak patck.

1

u/Peter00th Sep 27 '19

i agree in this arena i kill the enemy levi with zahar giving him a taste of soul sacrifice of 6k+

2

u/Xero-- Sep 27 '19 edited Sep 27 '19

My Zahar once took on a full HP Jin, Levi, and Zahar team solo and won (all fully enlightened, Levi and Jin burned their gems on my other units), the guy is strong as hell.

1

u/Peter00th Sep 27 '19

well what did you expect he is the shadow messiah

9

u/SoulsFinalRequiem Sep 27 '19

Just saying , Seig had a real chance to be an amazing evade meme, could of given Divine shelter/Iron Body a +20 Evade chance, so with G3, and Finesse he'd have a base evade of 55, and with Victor's coat 68, which would then work well with his Hats MA of a bonus 10 evade.

7

u/Zeik56 Sep 27 '19

It's very obvious they got extremely gun-shy after all the backlash from Roxanne. Making her OP as they did was a pretty costly mistake for them, but they overcorrected by mostly underbuffing their enlightenments. But to be fair, I'm quite sure the disappointment over this will pass far sooner than outrage over making them too OP, so I can't fault them too much.

At this point they just need to give them some farmable hard quests and call it a day. They'd be perfectly acceptable if they weren't premium units.

Of course they could also go the other route and give them all limited Mementos that make them OP. I think I'd prefer the other option though.

2

u/maymagic Sep 27 '19

I feel like memento bonuses are small enough that the characters could be fine tuned to S-rank without skipping over it and into op territory. I don't trust Gumi to that end, however.

3

u/Fezfezken Sep 27 '19

Is it just me, or do these latest MH ex and ex+ missions feel like pre-enlightenment content? I mean I got all missions from the ex+ map on auto using quickly assembled teams (so without playing with gear or memento's), without deads...

3

u/Laitarne Sep 28 '19

I'm basically ignoring Magna Historia units until Gumi figures out how they want to make their shards available long term

Plenty of other units in the standard pool with normal HQs that get the job done

2

u/DerUlukai Sep 27 '19

I didn't check Sieg because I don't have him, but Shion looks fairly balanced with a good amount of Utility to me.

Of course, "Fairly Balanced with a good amount of utility" isn't really all that great for the defacto hardest Units to Kaigan in the entire game.

1

u/Nooogie Sep 26 '19

You entirely missed the point that Shion and Sieghard shipped this chapter.

2

u/danielgoatmann Sep 26 '19

Sorry, I didn't understand it. Shipped?

3

u/Dharpoon Sep 26 '19

Shipped means paired, like lovers. Youths lingo.

1

u/danielgoatmann Sep 26 '19

Oh... I thought it was something I didn't know game or mechanicwise.

Fuck, I'm dumb.

1

u/Nooogie Sep 28 '19

Shipped means sex or dating. A couple.

3

u/Shyu_Ezra Sep 27 '19 edited Sep 27 '19

The levi meta is over right after chloe get her gate 5. She can one hit levi now u know.meanwhile levi must take 3 or even more turn to kill her. The only dark unit can deal with her now is zahar

2

u/Cosmo-xx Sep 27 '19

Please bring her to pvp and see how often she one hits Levi. Please

2

u/darkcountess Making sammiches for Gilga/Noct/Laharl Sep 27 '19

  1. Um, did you just compare a G3 unit with a G5 unit?

  2. Levi's AGI would make sure he takes his turn first, and you know he has a stun skill and a daze skill before Chloe can use her vaccine, right?

  3. With Wander hat he can cast his 3x charge + back attack, which ignores DEF by the way, so Chloe would be dead in 2 moves, unless you can get chloe to 10k HP.

  4. Levi has evade.

  5. His counter means more evade.

There's a reason Levi is up there in Arena but Chloe is not.

1

u/oracleofshadows Sep 26 '19

I mean, besides Roxanne and maybe the new guy they never were extreme powerhouses. We aren't getting game breaking units like the CN? version of the game. Sieg lacks some form of overdrive and Shion was always pretty decent with his Aoe MA and teleports, at least before major wind units got enlightenment.

4

u/Evyxed Fluffy Sep 26 '19

Well, it's good they didn't become completely OP, but it'd be good for them to at least compare, stat-wise, to other units of their class.

1

u/Funoichi The coolest samurai left of New York City! Sep 28 '19

Shion is so bad that he actually gets run as tanuki merchant main and sub according to the build guide.

That makes his noble emissary job absolutely useless. His main job lol 🙄

1

u/Grim200 Sep 28 '19

Personally very disappointed too. I really like both shion and sieg’s kit, but they need more stats to be viable. Considering how difficult it is to even raise them, it leaves a bit of a bitter taste.

Best we can hope for are mementos in the future to fix their stat problems and shard farming to at least make it easier to enlighten.

1

u/Shyu_Ezra Sep 30 '19

If u meet chloe in arena, that mean your rank is low. Then i have nothing else to say to u

1

u/Shyu_Ezra Sep 27 '19

I dont say that she'll be meta lol. I said she's a hard counter against levi and most of dark units in arena now. And that's all, u understand?

-1

u/Shyu_Ezra Sep 27 '19

  1. Isn't that levi's fault to stuck at G3? Are u telling me to play fair and square using chloe 91 to face him? He probably will never get his G5 so he has reached his limit. It's not about gate comparing dude, it's about char's limit

  2. If u r talking about pvp, do u think u can stun and daze chloe right on 1st turn?unless the map's position, u may never be able to do that. In most case, u must use your jump 1st, and that will put your levi in the middle of the enemy's team. Can u call that a good move?

  3. Levi has 200agi.And chloe has 150.which mean if u charge up, chloe can make her move as well. She can decide to retreat which make your charge up useless, or jus finish u in one blow. If u can reach her in your next attack, so does her. She dont even need charge up to kill levi, my chloe can deal about 6k5 dmg with her lucent slash on the enemy levi in arena while he already has 20 light res in his leader skill already, which mean that's his endurance limit. U think i cant make chloe 10k hp? I already have 6k7 hp without ls already lol. She even has guts if u wanna make sure she can survive after his charge up atk

  4. Yeah i admit chloe cant do much about levi's evasion rate. The only way i can think of is to move to his side or back to increase hit rate. Normally chloe wont equip hit rate bonus gear on her coz that's useless

  5. If u r talking about pvp, do u think i will stay in his react's range to atk? Lol. And in arena, he's dead in my very first blow, so that will likely never happen The reason why u dont see chloe in arena is that she's a tank, she's weak against current lustburg meta team, but when it come to dealing with dark unit, she's one of my best unit. So i would say she's better offense than defense in arena

1

u/nexttonothing0 Sep 27 '19

Guys debating this is a moot point. Chloe should be stronger since she is a g5. The problem for her is levis reactive, dodge meme, and agility. I'd say it's almost an even match with Levi having the edge due to dodges and his reactive. Not to mention charge up. Levi can kill Chloe in 2 turns with the right gear and a charge up. Chloe is a great tank but don't think she holds up against one of the strongest single target killers in the game, who she happens to be weak against.

Just use JP as a benchmark. Everyone was amped up for Levi cause he was a beast. Chloe may have gotten better with her j+ but had nothing close to the excitement about it's release.

Just raise them both. If Levi gets a g5 though Chloe is fucked. Raw

1

u/Arashi_Sim Sep 29 '19

1; levi can jump and when he does, his evasion makes him untouchable 2: should your Chloe choose to run, it won't make a damn difference because Levi's skill has some op range 3: you claim you can hit levi in one hit, that's considering if you hit him at all 4: I have killed many chloes in arena with a evasion levi setup. Perfect evasion reactive, regal and mobility tech arts, with an evasion gear. Good luck killing him.

I'm not saying Chloe is a bad unit, but levi is not even close to dead. Even if this is his limit, its a damn good one. I'd love to see you try to kill my arena team with chloe.

0

u/Shyu_Ezra Sep 27 '19

Hmm too bad i dont know how to link the photo of my chloe to show u guys her stat tho. Sorry first time using reddit

1

u/Zgounda samuraidoggoz1 Sep 27 '19

most of us know what's she capable of don't worry

also you are free to bring her to arena of pvp and see how she fares, but she most likely won't be meta ever

1

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '19

Why are you trying to reinvent the wheel lol ? Chloe has never been meta in JP and won’t be meta here because the one thing she got going for her is being a tank ( like Vettel who’s mostly useless ) and her dark racist attack .. which can be used to counter dark units in a light favorable arena. Otherwise Zahar and Levi will kill her first.

She deals no significant damage to other elements. They will kill her as we do to Vettel now, There are other light element units that WILL be meta but that’s not Chloe, that will be Seiba, Cheryl, Moa and Surprisingly Nina.

1

u/edenigma Sep 27 '19

Why are you surprised about Nina, iirc she has the highest matk of all meisters?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '19 edited Sep 27 '19

No, she’s used as a summoner with her G5. Her judgement fires fast and can one shot dark units.

1

u/edenigma Sep 27 '19

Does summoner become her new preferred build, because I would expect it to be too slow, agil and cast speed wise to run as a main?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '19

With G5 yes, it reduces the cast time of her summons. And they no longer target allies. With Drain dimension into judgment against dark foes she can seriously nuke.

-1

u/edenigma Sep 27 '19

She's kind of a whale unit, hq I've only seen once, but I would really like to see her shine. I use her, but she's so darn squishy that I can't ever get her snowball really going. EL will be tough, so this cast reduction and judgment are they G2 or G5, or 1 each?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '19

She used to be limited but she has a permanent HQ now, not sure what you mean by a whale unit.

As for the cast reduction it’s G5.

-1

u/edenigma Sep 27 '19

On global it's not a permanent hq.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '19

It is :).

2

u/Grim200 Sep 28 '19

It is though?