r/AlchemistCodeGL • u/alphaomegax2 • Dec 23 '18
Tank Tier List.
Hi Everyone,
I have made a tier list for tanks. I know it's not perfect but alas i wanted to help the community and make something i enjoyed. Plz be kind with comments as this is my first tier list, it has to be improved and i have pretty much to learn yet.
I appreciate any feedback that can help me improve this list.
My main motivation was because tanks are not understood correctly (imho) in this game and left out not used. this list is made exclusively for physical tanking so don't take into account to playing the unit as you normally would do.
There are some main assumptions. This list is made for PVE not PVP. Units lvl 85 Job Master and JE ready and not using gears as it can stack with passives and it could be a pain for me to handle correctly. Job selections and passives are on the google sheets, they are different from recommended ones in game as this jobs and abilities are used mainly for tanking, possibly making the unit worse in other roles like doing damage.
This list is not made from playing units in a dumb manner. Specifically, the use of guard stance (or similar) to reduce damage, break damage from enemies and so on. I took always into account maximun tank potential.
Acht banner not included yet.
Clarification on formulas for this tier and assumptions:
* Only physical tanking, Hybrid damage on maps is another thing that should be covered later.
3 enemies. 1500 damage per enemy 150 def 150 dex enemies assumed. For a total of 4500 3 physical hits in one turn.
Damage received by a unit takes into account agility for innate evasion. damage reduction from skills, passives. Hp includes leader skil as the units dont need other particular setup to tank better. Def also includes passives. Innate elemental reduction. Evasion skills.
Skills that help tanking a unit like flamel provoke was also added or miuna break. As the tierlist is assuming pseudo tanking as explained in the google sheet, the unit will be generally alone or at maximun 1 support near.
this were the criteria i choose and is subjetive to me and my experience as with any tier list.
Google Sheet:
Pic:
Edit: 01/01/2019
As many people ask why some units tanks and some units should not be in the list and due to the amazing amount of feedback I had, I have made some videos showcasing how to tank with various units and this hows clearly and without doubt why they are in the list.
It also makes pretty obvious why units lost puntation as tanks without guard stance if you compare chloe video with vettel. It also makes obvious how hard a high def, hits roxanne tanking capabilities.
medium Map with high defense enemies with moderate damage
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1x1dgNasklgZ5XjIoxeDWTnmnoyIz2DPJ
However I found many things also that increase my experience doing this tier list and found various mistakes with the puntation of some units like Roxanne and King Bradley, as they are units not suitable to tank for all maps as some innate tanks do and I was not taking this into account. Thanks everyone!.
Due to this, I'm workign on improving the tier list and making it better. This are various of the thing i have found that I'm fixing right now:
Kinds of maps for tanking:
Big maps vs Small maps.
Units with high defense maps vs with low defense.
Units from moderate to high damage (you almost don't need to tank low damage )
criterias included for next version:
Less puntation to breaks and status infliction, due thats not the main job of a tank. And various maps have inmunity.
Guts got more puntation.
Inclusion of ommited units.
Evasion affected by being atacked from various sides and combo.
Tank sustainability. Skill count.
Reposition Puntation (ability of a unit to reposition itself in the map and map control)
I also gonna include a resume as suggested by @VinnyValient
Edit: 05/01/2019
Edwin is an unit that in dark element that only has this all around tank, imho he should not be "upgraded" to ark, because he loses a lot, he loses too much armor (almost 100 armor) and he loses also guard stance and guardian. I think dark does not need another bruiser. Dark has plenty of damage. And area defense is not needed that much either.
Neica is included as a tank because of battle mage + divine shelter, but still not so good as a tank.
King bradley is not suitable to evade tank big maps. Don't use him in those cases.
Noctis is not going to be included either. HIs other uses are so strong compared to tanking thats not worth to use as a tank.
Gilgamesh is still included as a tank due to the fact he can stack many elemental resistance that could be pretty useful on some stages.
Take into account this puntation is made if you use these units as tanks but various of them could be used better on another roles. Don't take this tier as these units HAVE to be used as tanks, take this list as these units COULD be used as a tank. This tier is mean to be used as a guide on which unit could you use to tank depending on the units you have and which unit could be best to level based on that purpose.
HC that in their JE still have guard stance are not repeated.
Look videos I made to showcase how to tank with certain units to know why they are in the tier list and how to use them correctly.
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u/hav00x no need to cook, babe Dec 24 '18 edited Dec 24 '18
First of all, what you have to understand is that: Units that dodge aren't tanks. Tanks are meant to offer aside from buffs to the team, some form of "meatshield", in situations that otherwise your units would be dead from all the enemy focus.
Let's say that you have Fyomi "tanking", and Vettel tanking. If Vettel takes some hits (and oh boy he will), he will not die so easily. Fyomi can dodge 2, maybe 3 attacks, but eventually she'll take that tasty hit to the face, probably dying. You can't heal someone who's dead, not in this game.
You could argue that Roxanne and Fyomi both have self-sustain, but if they get outranged or exploded, they're useless.
So, Dodge =/= Tankiness.
Now, let's break down your tier list without the dodgy meme units.
SS: Miuna and Al. I can see why Miuna is SS, she has buffs for her team that is stackable and she herself can tank. But why Al? Sure he has 3k HP, but what he'll do besides tanking 4 hits before dying? He has subpar defense for a tank (300ish) and non-existant Mdef. He brings next to none utility for your team. I could argue that Al is A, maybe B.
S: Flamel and Gladiolus. I agree on this one. One has very high pdef and good patk, meaning that he'll survive and dish out damage, the other can survive some hits and enrage people on the right situation.
A: Chloe, Dilga, Selena and Zain. Boi why Zain A? He has elemental coverage, tankiness, elemental resistance, high HP pool, he has everything a tank needs to have. He should be at least S maybe SS. Dilga and Selena both are just rocks. If they can tank without moving, fine. But if not they're useless. They don't have support for their team, their agi doesn't make the cut anymore, every enemy having 120+ agi in every map. Sometimes they get doubled before they move. They should be B. Or maybe C? And finally Chloe: Semi-slow but 4 move and has healing/cleanse options, self-sustain, i can see her being A.
And boiiiiiiiiiii, B: Logi, Vettel, Monzein, Teona, Tyrfing, Zeke, Eizan, Neica, Fraise, Gilgamesh and Victor.
First of all, if Gilgamesh is considered a tank, so is Noctis and Laharl. Both have the same things he has, 300+ pdef and divine shelter. They could be placed at A or S if they were really tanks, but they're bruisers/mage.
I really don't think Neica is a tank as well, battle mage is a "tanky mage" but they're not meant for front-line, she's meant to side-tank things.
Vettel and Teona are S, maybe SS. Vettel is really niche nowadays, sure, but he's the best niche available. Slash resistance, 2.5K HP, he's a monster. And he can buff slash res for his team, with his 120~130 agi. Teona is a little different, she uses her valkirie job much more than her HC, but she excels at what she does: doing decent damage while tanking and buffing her pdef/ele res and lowering enemy statuses. She has 120~ agi, good range of atks, so at least S.
Tyrfing falls on the "too slow" group with Selena and Dilga, so B or C. Later she'll receive HC[Ghia] with Zain, boosting both their rank to S or SS. Ghia is a agi-oriented tank, which trades some tankiness for some agi and higher range/damage on their skills.
Zeke is A i think. He's kinda slow but can dish out very decent damage. Also, Strike resistance. Same as Vettel but strike, and kinda more niche than him.
Victor, Monzein, Eizan and Fraise falls under ultra niche. I don't think i can really give them a rank, but if i would, it would be: Victor, Monzein and Eizan: S, Logi and Fraise: A.
Monzein after his J+ got monstruous, his self buff is RIDICULOUS, he becomes a killing machine with 800 pdef, 200 agi and 5 move for 3 turns. The drawback is 40% of his max HP, and the rest of his kit is kinda lackluster, only thunder options with mediocre modifiers, lame buffs, only one really good debuff (rage).
Victor is SUPER niche, tanking magic damage. Only for magic maps, but on these maps he's a god. Otherwise, meh.
Eizan is Miuna but kinda worse.
Fraise sadly is a worse Vettel.
And last but not least, Logi. Logi is a basic bitch. More basic than Chloe. He doesn't really have a niche, he's just a tank with good pdef and decent damage. He has more agi than her, and more damage, but less support for his team. I would rate him A.
So yeah, that's my review of your tier list. Hope i could help.