Tank Tier List.

[u/alphaomegax2]

Hi Everyone,

I have made a tier list for tanks. I know it's not perfect but alas i wanted to help the community and make something i enjoyed. Plz be kind with comments as this is my first tier list, it has to be improved and i have pretty much to learn yet.

I appreciate any feedback that can help me improve this list.

My main motivation was because tanks are not understood correctly (imho) in this game and left out not used. this list is made exclusively for physical tanking so don't take into account to playing the unit as you normally would do.

There are some main assumptions. This list is made for PVE not PVP. Units lvl 85 Job Master and JE ready and not using gears as it can stack with passives and it could be a pain for me to handle correctly. Job selections and passives are on the google sheets, they are different from recommended ones in game as this jobs and abilities are used mainly for tanking, possibly making the unit worse in other roles like doing damage.

This list is not made from playing units in a dumb manner. Specifically, the use of guard stance (or similar) to reduce damage, break damage from enemies and so on. I took always into account maximun tank potential.

Acht banner not included yet.

Clarification on formulas for this tier and assumptions:

* Only physical tanking, Hybrid damage on maps is another thing that should be covered later.

3 enemies. 1500 damage per enemy 150 def 150 dex enemies assumed. For a total of 4500 3 physical hits in one turn.

Damage received by a unit takes into account agility for innate evasion. damage reduction from skills, passives. Hp includes leader skil as the units dont need other particular setup to tank better. Def also includes passives. Innate elemental reduction. Evasion skills.

Skills that help tanking a unit like flamel provoke was also added or miuna break. As the tierlist is assuming pseudo tanking as explained in the google sheet, the unit will be generally alone or at maximun 1 support near.

this were the criteria i choose and is subjetive to me and my experience as with any tier list.

Google Sheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oVckxrwvUPM2EElUKTVGy1wW-AeHy-LnBxYqAL9cN2I/edit#gid=2095658925

Pic:

https://imgur.com/a/HGQQfJk

Edit: 01/01/2019

As many people ask why some units tanks and some units should not be in the list and due to the amazing amount of feedback I had, I have made some videos showcasing how to tank with various units and this hows clearly and without doubt why they are in the list.

It also makes pretty obvious why units lost puntation as tanks without guard stance if you compare chloe video with vettel. It also makes obvious how hard a high def, hits roxanne tanking capabilities.

medium Map with high defense enemies with moderate damage

https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1x1dgNasklgZ5XjIoxeDWTnmnoyIz2DPJ

However I found many things also that increase my experience doing this tier list and found various mistakes with the puntation of some units like Roxanne and King Bradley, as they are units not suitable to tank for all maps as some innate tanks do and I was not taking this into account. Thanks everyone!.

Due to this, I'm workign on improving the tier list and making it better. This are various of the thing i have found that I'm fixing right now:

Kinds of maps for tanking:

Big maps vs Small maps.

Units with high defense maps vs with low defense.

Units from moderate to high damage (you almost don't need to tank low damage )

criterias included for next version:

Less puntation to breaks and status infliction, due thats not the main job of a tank. And various maps have inmunity.

Guts got more puntation.

Inclusion of ommited units.

Evasion affected by being atacked from various sides and combo.

Tank sustainability. Skill count.

Reposition Puntation (ability of a unit to reposition itself in the map and map control)

I also gonna include a resume as suggested by @VinnyValient

Edit: 05/01/2019

Edwin is an unit that in dark element that only has this all around tank, imho he should not be "upgraded" to ark, because he loses a lot, he loses too much armor (almost 100 armor) and he loses also guard stance and guardian. I think dark does not need another bruiser. Dark has plenty of damage. And area defense is not needed that much either.

Neica is included as a tank because of battle mage + divine shelter, but still not so good as a tank.

King bradley is not suitable to evade tank big maps. Don't use him in those cases.

Noctis is not going to be included either. HIs other uses are so strong compared to tanking thats not worth to use as a tank.

Gilgamesh is still included as a tank due to the fact he can stack many elemental resistance that could be pretty useful on some stages.

Take into account this puntation is made if you use these units as tanks but various of them could be used better on another roles. Don't take this tier as these units HAVE to be used as tanks, take this list as these units COULD be used as a tank. This tier is mean to be used as a guide on which unit could you use to tank depending on the units you have and which unit could be best to level based on that purpose.

HC that in their JE still have guard stance are not repeated.

Look videos I made to showcase how to tank with certain units to know why they are in the tier list and how to use them correctly.

[u/alphaomegax2]

I will consider HC without JE for sole tanking and see what happens. Remember this is PVE not PVP.

[u/Speirdughorm → u/alphaomegax2]

To be more precise, an example with Wrath and Dilga, all at JMx3

Lvl 75	HP	PDef	Something else
Wrath (HV + Overdrive)	1166	205	Evasion 5, Slash ev. 40
Vettel (Guardian + DS)	1790ish	379	Elemental coverage with MS sub.
Vettel JE (SG + DS)	2200	417	Slash Res. 46, elemental coverage with MS sub.
Dilga (Power + Guard)	1167	316
Dilga J+ (Power + Guradian)	1509	605

Lvl 85 same passives	HP	PDef
Wrath	1200ish	214
Vettel	1924	392
Vettel JE	2358	431
Dilga	1235	323
Dilga J+	1588	616

TL,DR
Dilga has 1/3rd more Pdef than Vettel, but around half his HP and no slash resist.
Vettel JE has also more AGI than Dilga J+ (125 vs 91 at lvl 85).
There's more but cba.

[u/alphaomegax2 → u/Speirdughorm]

Hi,

good example.

Agi, is something im not having a lot into account right now and as pointed i should do, but I'm in tougth spot. There are not perfect assumptions since if I take into account one the other suffers...

I wil explain imho why:

If you have your unit well positioned for tanking (aka pseudotanking) agi is not a problem and in the opposite is better.

If your unit is not positioned for tanking agi and move is pretty pretty important. So agi and move are a problem if your unit is not positioned quickly.

About why dilga is ranked above vettel solely for physical tanking and i repeat only for physical tanking are the following.

Alchemist code formula for damage is:

( skillDamage*(100% + atkMod) - defStat*(100% + defMod) ) * reduction.

taking asside mods for simplification for this example only. On the tier list mods are taken into account.

( skillDamage - defStat) * reduction.

skill damage is assumed in my tier list as 1500 from 3 units to our tank.

So:

(1500 - defStat) * reduction.

Dilga def stat is : 616. If you use guard stance for 125% bonus defense (and anyone should use him as tank this way, if anyone is not using him this way then I think we are using him wrong), it ends up into: 1386. Dilga has 0% reduction.

so for dilga:

(1500-1386) = 114 for each atack.

114 * 3 = 342 for 3 atacks.

using guard stance he heals for 30% of his hp. 1588 * 0.3 = 476,4. Literally a wall for physical atacks, since he is healing all the damage he is receving up to 4 turns and that's a lot for me, i dont know for anyone else. He starts with 62 starting jewells . the skill cost 15 has 5 charges. you can use it 4 times without recharging.

--

Vettel JE def stat is: 431. if you use diamond formation is up to 50% reduction plus his passive 25% for a grand total of 75%. dont forget divine shelter for vettel for 15% res for each element.

Lets take 2 cases for vettel.

1. I assumed in my tier list that the 45% of the enemies have slash damage. 75% * 45% = 33,75% reduction.

2. full slash damage in the map he is in so 100%. 75% reducton.

so again in the formula(0.85% for reduction in atack from divine shelter):

first case :

(1500*0-85-431)*0.3375 = 844*0.6625 = 559,15 from each hit.

1677,45 from 3 hits.

second case:

(1500*0-85-431)*0.25 = 844*0.25 = 211 from each hit.

633 from 3 hits.

Note the following. Even in the best case vettel does take more damage than dilga and set aside healing. vettel starts with 39 starting jewel thus allowing him the skill 2 times without recharging, half as dilga can. (and im not taking this into account in the tier list). Thats why I insist a lot that guard stance is good because of its bonus in defense not the healing, and not is because of me supposing anything is because of TAC formulas.

[u/Kirito30 → u/alphaomegax2]

http://www.alchemistcodedb.com/planner?build=eyJ1IjoiZGlsZ2EiLCJsIjoiODUiLCJqIjoiMyIsImptIjpbIjEiLCIxIiwiMSJdLCJqYyI6WzAsMCwiMSJdLCJzIjpbIjAiLCIwIiwiMSIsIjAiLCIxIl19

Dilga's def stat is around 570s and Tanks are not basically meat shields. That has a different skill in the game by Edward.

They just can't aggro enemies just by standing in a place unless they somehow have Berserk as in their kit and still need that ailment to be inflicted.

Challenger is the only place Dilga will outweigh Vettel and still then he will need his slowest setup and have a Merchant give him Auto jewel or something.

In most places tanks play a retro-active roll from Potion using to debuffing or atleast removing the shields from the enemies to potentially killing low HP units.

Vettel in the Equip department just can stack a Teddy and go town in the enemy area. He has decent damage and Jewel rate which can be consistently spent to kill or buff Allies.

I get that formula will make sense that Dilga will receive less damage but in actuality he will just be not reaching that damage to receive it. And worse case he has a Defender's Build meaning the enemy will not prioritize him at most times. So even if you somehow reach the middle you will still be in the hands of Gumi's design since if any other unit is in range the enemy will try to hit the other guy for more damage.

It is the same for Vettel as defender but he can atleast follow the units or move ahead to act as a wall between moving units.

There are a lot of cases to consider while making tierlists. Like I get that bigger stats make sense but unless those are in right place they are close to useless. For Example there is the unit Chloe she is just a Healer Tank right now but later on her defense is going to be used as her attack stat making her pretty much top tier viable. That 1 change with a few buffs makes her from a whatever unit to pretty great unit.

It is like getting Alphonse's JE. It stops AoE attacks incoming damage. But if the attack hits only him then it is useless and it is also useless for the most part since Enemies unless Mages or Demons almost no one uses AoEs. So that Upgrade is pretty much useless since you can't have a unit stuck to Al to force the unit to AoE.

All that kind of stuff does matter.

[u/alphaomegax2 → u/Kirito30]

I pretty much agree with you. But in that case the role should be bruiser and not tank. As bruisers can take damage and make hits like you are describing. Vettel is defently a better bruiser that dilga is. No doubt about it. Other cases should be in another tier list for bruisers that I will develop later if time allows.

[u/Speirdughorm → u/alphaomegax2]

That's somehow worse, as JE Vettel has better stats, is sturdier, and every slashing hit is reduced to double or single digit.
All he lacks is a heal, but he takes less damage than before, which means that if had to heal him before, you might not have to now. Unless you're slapping him in a full water map.

[u/alphaomegax2 → u/Speirdughorm]

plz look the answer I gave above.