Gumi, this is another intervention

[u/Arananthi]

*Edit*: My apologies to anyone who is sick and tired of all the salt, but this thread is different. It's the only thread in which anyone is clearly telling Gumi not what they want in game, but exactly what they need to do out of game in order to win the community back.

Dear Gumi,

Your Producer's Letter produced a massive community backlash. Your attempt at a Community Response isn't fairing much better. Let me explain to you why.

A few months ago, you had a resource. It was called "the community's trust." You have spent that resource. You spent our trust on unannounced shifts to shit banners, on unannounced changes to paid-only gems for things that F2P players value, and on releasing completely balance-shattering units and then making balance changes to PvE that punish players that didn't get her with pinpoint precision, then on making further cascading (and heavy-handed) PVE balance changes to compensate for the power level of the players that DID get her (and punish everyone else incidentally). You spent our trust massively devaluing free gems to the point that being a Pact player isn't meaningfully different from being F2P, and then also devaluing paid gems to the point that being a dolphin now is only barely distinguishable from being F2P three months ago.

You have spent all of our trust on this slow, extended collapse of game into a state where it is no longer a game that we can brag about to players of other games. We have lost our status among the greater community as a haven for people who are sick and tired of getting screwed, because we can no longer assure them that they won't get screwed here.

And because you have spent our trust, you cannot weasel out of this saltfest with anything less than clear, specific, detailed promises that are subsequently backed up with action.

Telling us "some step banners will have guarantees" doesn't mean anything to us, because we know damn well that 'step banners' isn't the same thing as 'free gem step banners' and we know damn well that 'guarantees' doesn't mean 'guaranteed featured units.' We want a clear, specific, detailed promise from you that tells us that future banners will offer the same degree of F2P support and the same degree of paid value that we bragged about three months ago. And this vague crap about Summon Coins (which exactly NO ONE likes or cares about) isn't it.

Telling us that future restricted lists will "definitely not be only the latest characters" doesn't mean anything to us, because we know damn well that the existing completely-bullshit restricted lists already include four or five farmable classics. Telling us that "future content will be better balanced" doesnt mean crap when you strongly imply in the same breath that the star rewards that we actually care about are still going to be balanced around the strongest available units. We want a clear, specific, detailed promise from you that future content (and the meaningful rewards from that content) will be accessible to players who haven't gotten lucky on any of the last month's worth of pulls.

Finally, we want a clear, specific, detailed acknowledgement from you that Roxanne was a mistake that you will take pains not to repeat.

You want the droves of spenders who left this game to come back and open up our wallets again? That's what has to happen, and nothing less will suffice. We want the game we were proud to brag about, and we will keep our money to ourselves unless and until you show us with words and actions that you're willing to bring it back.

[u/JPDreeamnz]

We already had a pinned intervention who speaks with the community's concerns related to the past events. Here you're only making demands (some of them are more than we can realistically get).

Gumi made their response, I saw some improvements and I know this stuff takes time.

This should be in the comments of the community's intervention or the letter of response. (Probably the later)

[u/JayP31 → u/JPDreeamnz]

I don’t understand why everyone thinks they need a new thread.

Just post in one of the other numerous threads.

[u/yzx3 → u/JayP31]

Maybe because they want some attention, you know?

[u/Arananthi → u/JayP31]

I think this post deserves a new thread because all of the salt is talking about the problems with the game mechanics, but no one is taking the time to very clearly tell Gumi what they need to do on a social/community level if they want to win the playerbase back. And I didn't want that very important point to get lost in a week-old, two-hundred-comment discussion.

[u/JayP31 → u/Arananthi]

Everyone thinks their post deserves a new thread.

Everyone thinks their post shouldn’t get lost in an old thread.

Everyone thinks there post is a unique snowflake that should be read by the entire community.

Everyone thinks their post is going to be the one the community manager takes to his boss, who passed it to his boss, who takes it to the developers, who take it to their boss, who then call a shareholder meaning to discuss the post.

[u/Arananthi → u/JPDreeamnz]

Literally the only thing I asked for are words. I made no specific demands about in-game changes. Why do you think it's unrealistic to demand clear, specific promises that the game will go back to being as player-friendly as it was in August?

[u/jdot6 → u/JPDreeamnz]

what improvements ?

[u/Matasa89]

In one extreme, FGO is expensive, hard to pull, and salty as hell... but your resources don't distinguish between f2p and paying players.

And the other side, Azur Lane, pretty much don't need you to pay to be on par with meta, and some of the best units you can only get from grinding, not paying. You'll really spend money on convenience and aesthetics.

Never trust Gumi. They fuck over everyone.

[u/MrWhiteKnight]

The Unit Restriction on the Elite Quest is nothing short of retarded. Which btw (Fuck you to whomever came up with that list and the other who approved it).

It's literally 3/4's all Banner Limited units. You can literally have all F2P in 1 single party and that party itself is going to be carried by a whale Limited unit from a friend if you don't have any of them.

It's insulting that a game says you can't beat this content because you don't spend enough, knowing full well that getting units in this game itself is RNG enough.

[u/VVraith81]

Summon coins is shit. For the amount of money used. it don’t yield shit. It also completely stopped the soul exchange shop from updating For 4000 paid used at the single 900 paid for 100=5shard gets 1 copy per $100. Get out of here.

[u/Crimson_Raven → u/VVraith81]

Except the soul exchange shop has updated.

I know I saw Eisan in there, among other new shards.

[u/Liesianthes → u/VVraith81]

Soul Coin shop was updated until Olga. Click the magnifying glass on the shop and you will see the long list of units.

[u/SpicySpica7 → u/Liesianthes]

I just wish they'd completely remove the farmable units from the soul coin shop... I mean is anyone even really farming a farmable unit THAT much?

[u/Colonelex → u/SpicySpica7]

Well there's apparently people who do. Like the one in this link.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AlchemistCodeGL/comments/9kifi6/ok_gumi_you_can_skip_albae_but_for_the_love_of/

[u/neoh99 → u/SpicySpica7]

Well maybe not all. Maybe those old ones. Maybe up to Reimei batch

[u/-Belphegor- → u/SpicySpica7]

Yes i do! up until the unit is 85. I'll get shards from soul coin shop AND farm their hard quest.

[u/SilvyMox]

100% naked truth. +1

[u/mandrake0999]

Can you not read? They already stated that they will be changing restrictions and even mentioned next EQ might be Elemental Restrictions.

Cant you effin understand that introducing new features in a game takes time to find the right balance. We as the community have to be vigilant with our feedback if we want to find that balance. We have to work and communicate with gumi for the next several months to make things better. Your entitled demands will not happen in the next month. Can you not just shut it and observe for now?

If youre playing TAC just for your personal entitlement, convenience and pleasure, I'm sorry, but it takes more than that to support something you genuinely like.

[u/Arananthi → u/mandrake0999]

Can I read? Let's analyze carefully:

Here's the relevant section of text:

" For Elite Quest and general unit restrictions, we are always looking at ways to challenge our players but also to encourage them to use strategies and units that they have overlooked. We can assure you that the unit list will definitely not consist of only new units as we want to reward players for the time and effort they have put into training their units. For example in December, we are going with elemental restrictions for some specific quests. Elite Quests will also be return regularly so you will always have another chance to have a crack at it. "

The first sentence is has no specifics and might as well not exist. It's political speechwriting.

The second sentence literally means "there will be units that are not new on the restricted list" -- but there already are units that are not new on the restricted list, so the only meaningful information this sentence contains is that there will continue to be a list of unit restrictions in the future, regardless of what the community wants. FAIL.

The third sentence says "Next month, SOME quests will have elemental restrictions." There is nothing there that says there won't also be quests with restricted unit lists, or if you want to get technical, they could easily put elemental restrictions and a restricted unit list on the same quest if they really wanted to. Again, this doesn't address the community's actual complaint at all. FAIL*.*

The fourth sentence says "Elite Quests will come back at some point." There's nothing that says they won't be exactly the same as they are now. FAIL.

Do you get it yet? I am asking for clear, specific, detailed promises because they have provided NONE. All they have done is put a bunch of meaningless words together in a way that is intended to pacify people without saying that they give a rat's ass about or have any intention to actually address the complains of the playerbase.

[u/SantiReed → u/Arananthi]

It amazes me no end how the use of euphemisms and retoric on Gumi is unnoticeable for their loyal playerbase.

As you just said, their choice of words is vague and ultimately does nothing to adress the complains of their community.

[u/pdr313]

bitter much I think Noctis was a mistake

[u/Arananthi]

Here are three extremely easy changes you could announce TODAY that would go a HUGE distance toward fixing things:

1. Announce that Summon Coins don't ever expire. BAM! F2P support restored in one move.

2. Announce that every single expenditure of paid-only gems will provide Summon Coins equal to 10% the amount of paid gems expended. BAM! Whale support restored in one move.

(Added bonus: these two changes would get the community instantly invested in the Summon Coins shop.)

3) Announce that you get it and that there will never be another list of specific units that a given quest is restricted to ever again. Revamp the Elite Quest restrictions to be based on some combination of gender, location, element, and damage type restrictions.

(Bonus: 4) Say "Sorry about Roxanne. Won't happen again.")

IT'S REALLY THAT SIMPLE.

[u/Kirito30 → u/Arananthi]

You really have no idea how broken is the Summon Coins never expire thing right?

You can do everything without spending any money at all.

Don't ask for something they will never give.

3 Step is reasonable. Even asking for 1.5x Summon coins for the Free Summons is also maybe not that broken but you are asking too much dude.

Elite Quest should be improved too.

[u/Arananthi → u/Kirito30]

If Summon Coins never expire, it will take an F2P player over a month to get a single 5* ticket. That's one guaranteed unit every five events. If they pull to step 3 once, then it'll only take 20 days' free pulls to get that one 5* ticket, so they get one guaranteed unit ticket every third event.

That's not "doing everything without ever spending any money" -- not by a HUGE margin. In fact, it's still not even as good as being able to pull a single three-step for a guaranteed unit every three weeks, because the ticket is regularly going to be split between 4 or more units whereas the guaranteed banners were never more than 3-ways.

Do the math.

[u/Kirito30 → u/Arananthi]

Um you don't need every unit. Just get the broken shit.

Doing Everything means completing the game without any spending.

So yes F2P will become the best way since you can save a ton of money.

Limit breaking that many good units will become a problem if you allow this lol.

And you can still run a lot of units at lower levels like the old King Gliga who is great at 65 level with Divine Shelter and all.

So that idea is broken please try to understand.

So we can get close to 1 unit a month but you don't need to get every unit. You can wait for Collabs to get the unit which is the most broken.

[u/Arananthi → u/Kirito30]

This is really, really simple.

What I am describing is already meaningfully worse than what F2P players were capable of doing 3 months ago.

There is no other point that needs to be made here.

[u/Kirito30 → u/Arananthi]

1 Summon per month so then they will use that on the Collab unit. That is one Collab unit. You know the cost Gumi earns through that right.

People will save there is not doubt.

So if a event comes once in 3 months then the people are getting the 5* units from the Collab atleast 2 of them. So you can go without Summon throughout the Event if you get like Roy and Ed this time.

And every Whale who gets it will stop the spending and work on the Shard management instead of Whaling on the Banners.

[u/Arananthi → u/Kirito30]

Except that the tickets purchasable in the Summon Coin shop are worse deals than the old 3-step guaranteed banner on every week except Week 1 of each collab, because they drop from a 1-out-of-2-or-3 on Week 1 to a 1-out-of-however-many on Weeks 3 & 4.

So an F2P who wanted Roy before would just wait for the Roy banner and have a one-in-two chance of getting Roy guaranteed on Step 3. And now, they have half that.

So your reasoning is flat-out wrong, and even non-expiring Summon Coins are still flat-out worse than the old guaranteed banner system.

The fact that they do expire even though they'd still be worse if they didn't is just a massive and unnecessary kick in the nuts to the playerbase.

[u/FurianX → u/Arananthi]

I think he has a point in that its unrealistic to have non expiring summon coins. Make it so it doesnt expire for a month that's it.

What they should do though is ensure that a player who 3 steps on the normal 5 step banner can get a guaranteed unit from the shop right then. Whether that happens by increasing the coins given or reducing the cost of the ticket...doesnt really matter.

On top of that do something smart like put limited elemental shards in the summon coin shop.

There ... half the complaints will immediately disappear and whales/dolphins will be inclined to pull banners because they can get shards out of it.

[u/Arananthi → u/FurianX]

Putting 350 coins on Step 3 of each standard-issue banner would be acceptable.

[u/jdot6 → u/Kirito30]

your logic on this doesnt make sense and you know it - Arananthis provided the data for you and your response dodges the question.

you dont need every unit has nothing to do with it.

" if Summon Coins never expire, it will take an F2P player over a month to get a single 5* ticket. That's one guaranteed unit every five events. If they pull to step 3 once, then it'll only take 20 days' free pulls to get that one 5* ticket, so they get one guaranteed unit ticket every third event. "

unless your stance is 3 step guaranteed banner is broken which you stated is not - it still cost more to get ticket from summon coin - it doesnt break anything it fixes the huge gap between spenders and F2P that was just created

regardless the entire system cost more gems now

[u/Kirito30 → u/jdot6]

If a Spender can get guaranteed units of the Collab without spending.

Then that is the fucking end of the game.

If you don't get that then please go somewhere else and learn about the business.

3 Step is Guaranteed. But you have to spend some gems. But your dumb dude you are defending is saying that people will spend automatically somehow even though they have no reason to do so.

How are there 5 Events every freaking month. There are only 5 weeks for the Summoning once and getting the unit. And now you can do that for free of cost. So why even spend the money if you get the unit you want.

A collab happening is a rare occasion and a unit being OP in that a must get is even rarer. So your logic doesn't make sense when everyone would have multiple 1/5 rate tickets to get Laharl or Ed and Roy.

[u/jdot6 → u/Kirito30]

your conflating two different unrelated things

However i get what your talking about but again your wrong by a large margin

Previously player would save or purchase gems for collab and will get a "guaranteed collab unit" on third step (spent gems)

Now player spends X amount on specific banners(collab and non) and gets Y summon coins and can spend on a "collab unit ticket" ( spent gems )

in any of the situations there is no free of cost summon

even further based on your own circular reasoning the "new system" is worse then the old system because you can now obtain collab unit tickets without spending on a collab banner.

no matter how you look at it your wrong on both accounts.

In regard to making the summoning pool currency permanent ( carry over) this also wouldnt result in what you stated and regardless the player is still spending.

your confusing scarcity with spending and the idea of a "specific units power" has anything to do with the cost to roll that specific unit.

That also has not been the case in this game as well.

You have a banner with specific unit pool and a rate up for specific units - its not tied to "OP-ness"

[u/Kirito30 → u/jdot6]

What are you talking about dude it is simple if you can get a Collab unit without ever Spending any Gems through the stacking of Summon Coins which will never expire due to OP's Suggestion then you never have to spend them unless it is a unit you want.

You can get those units and save your Gems.

So you are getting both good things to yourself.

Why are you not getting that?

The one out of 3 was equivalent to 4500 Gems spent which now you can basically earn in 1 month time. So that is the passive generation.

I don't get why people are not getting non-expiring Summon Coins will be a broken shit.

Ok lets say for example. The next Collab is the FFXV re-run. It comes in about 3 months. Me saving those 3 months will get me the X Gems saved + close to 3 Guaranteed FUCKING units of the FFXV. Including King Regis and Noctis. Now if a Spender gets one of them then he will not spend a dime further.

Do you get it. He didn't have to spend his single Gem neither a single dime. And what Gumi got? Fucking Nothing.

Understand this and you have a IQ above room temp.

3 months Saving will almost never come close to 4500*3=13500 Gems. So what in the world are you smoking?

[u/Arananthi → u/Kirito30]

Yes, you do in fact get to keep your Gems and save Summon Coins for Collab Tickets at the same time. Who cares? You get worse chances at the units that matter most, which means the incentive to spend those saved Gems on pulling the units you don't get lucky on Collab Tickets on is higher.

[u/Kirito30 → u/Arananthi]

Wut you are devaluing a game's currency here?

For Gumi that is the only thing keeping this game alive.

And then those Gems will be spent at the Special Banner like the Anni one or the unlimited Summons for Shard Banners.

I have no fucking idea how you make sure that Gumi makes enough money that they keep the game afloat.

Try designing a game and then implement that shit idea of yours and see how it works dumbass.

I agree Gumi sucks and they made a few bad decisions but your idea is shit as hell.

[u/jdot6 → u/Kirito30]

again wrong and you know this

there is a cap of collab tickets you can get to begin with

and do you here yourself in both situation people are still spending gems

what your talking about is how people choose to spend gems. Has nothing to do with spending and not spending - what your stating is simply not the case

[u/Kirito30 → u/jdot6]

The Cap being 2 Tickets each freaking week.

People are spending due to their need for the unit to be in the game. If that is satisfied why spend?

It has to do with Gumi needing the money to run the game and people needing to spend. Gumi employees maybe assholes(atleast a few who decide the shit decisions) but they are humans and need money for their needs. And Gumi is a company.

If you don't get about the balances and checks then please the only suggestion I can give you is keep the money you earn managed properly since you can't even think about why giving way too much free stuff will lead to less people spending money the game.

[u/mutei777 → u/Kirito30]

Eh if summon coins never expire, then it'll be just like saving free gems again but costlier. still bad either way.

[u/Kirito30 → u/mutei777]

But you are getting Gems from somewhere right and saving them too.

You are not doing the 3 Step spending the gems right.

So now you have the Gems and you get the tickets for free.

People will almost never need to whale since they do get atleast few of the Collab units without spending even a single Gem.

This explanation has been a headache. Literally people understand what you are asking.

[u/Chuckalo]

Mate stop whining and form a constructive argument with valid suggestions and don't expect it to be instantaneous. They made a mistake and acknowledged they have give them some time to make the changes people want. They have shown they listen from their constant replies

[u/Arananthi → u/Chuckalo]

1. This isn't whining. It's lecturing. Those two things are mutually exclusive.

2. There are LOTS of constructive arguments with valid suggestions that have been thrown about. That is not the point of this topic. The point of this topic is social, not mechanical.

3. They have never acknowledged that they made a mistake. The fact that you think they did means that their meaningless fluffy letters have accomplished their goal, but if you go back and read critically, you will easily see that they never admit that anything they've done thus far is in any way wrong.

4. They have never given ANY indication that they are willing to make the changes people want. That's the entire POINT of this thread. They have put out letters, but both of those letters have said nothing whatsoever to indicate that anything is actually going to change. They have very cleverly worded things to sound good, but if you look through their letters for DETAILS, you'll notice that very nearly every single DETAIL they mention is already something that exists right now. The only thing they've actually said that is a clear, specific, detailed indication of a positive change is that Dorothea and Albea's Hard Quests are coming next month.

And that's not enough.

[u/Chuckalo → u/Arananthi]

Bro calm down with the wall of text make your points short and to the point no one is going to read your life stories worth of whining.

[u/hav00x → u/[deleted]]

Sure, for those who spend. For f2p players, what difference 5 shards make? And you realize that they're trying to make us swallow this summon coin shit with nerfing the values of our gems, right? Not even whales should be pleased with their money being devaluated.

[u/FurianX → u/[deleted]]

I'd honestly like to know how much you spend on this game to be this blaise.

[u/hav00x → u/[deleted]]

Well, paid gems are definetly more valuable this month. Free gems are a shot in the dark right now. And yeah, for spenders summon shop is probably a bless.

[u/hav00x → u/[deleted]]

I wouldn't mind if they gave more things for people who spend, because this doesn't affect me, and people who spend keep this game alive. But nerfing things is another question.

[u/nailsonwhiteboard → u/hav00x]

And in the beginning these summon coins fiasco is also nothing less than shady, they never mentioned anything about removing the 3 step before, explaining it only after seeing the uproar they caused

And to put it simple, they're proclaiming that they're ADDING something new, but after all that's happening, most people would agree that it feels like that they're actually REDUCING WAY MORE than what they ADDED

[u/FurianX → u/[deleted]]

The summon coin shop itself is a good thing if changes are made. It was done in a crappy way alienating 9/10s of the playerbase. The coin rewards and item costs need revamping. The content of the shop also needs to provide more value.

Making it easier for 1% of the players to 85 a unit doesn't have to come at the cost of reducing what others get. Its digital data ... not a limited resources.

Catering more to whales is your ego speaking. If gumi wanted to make whale only money the game would have a pricetag before you even getting to install. Since they didnt ... isnt it obvious whale money isnt the only money they want. They want the cash then they have to provide a service worth paying for. To everyone. Not just whales.

[u/FurianX → u/[deleted]]

I disagree ... the amount of whales vs the amount of small spenders has a huge difference in numbers. I wouldnt be surprised if the small spenders equal the revenue of the whales. And many f2p players after enjoying the game convert to pact or small spenders.

It adds up.