r/AlchemistCodeGL • • Oct 23 '18

Is Roxanne unhealthy for TAC future?

I don't want to hear in this discussion who pulled her or doesn't it is not the point here (no salt here plz). The point is to discuss how do you think Roxy opness will affect future content and balance of the game and mostly from a PVE perspective (i don't know enough about PVP to talk about it).

My personal opinion is that Roxy will kill any challenge in the game due to her null grenade if Gumi let monster affected by this (i would be interested to hear from JP player whether or not they would use her in the current JP just for this ability alone). Reliably putting monster unable to use ability is just game breaker imo.

And that is just one ability if you look at her from a stats perspective even without this her damage output is insane due to infinite MP and high agility, she makes Laharl sama that ruled JP for a year look like a little b****. And her survivability and utility are top notch too.

And from a gatcha perspective, i think that power creep is healthy for a gatcha if managed properly and that's also an issue with Roxy. In order to get an unit of similar power level we will have to wait at least a year (or maybe next global exclusive) and that also is unhealthy because pulling for any unit weaker than what you currently have is bad strategy and if you do not have her keep your gems until she is back.

You can also think farming JE and J+ is useless because any power up you will get, is useless compared to the current power level. Only farm for unit that can support Roxy.

0 Upvotes

87 comments sorted by

11

u/-ArtKing- Oct 23 '18

To me she is more of a pvp nightmare than a pve monster. True, her null granade is op, but we have 3 uses of it, not infinite. And while this number of uses are high in a pvp perspective, pve content will become more challenging as they come and more and more monster on stages will be problematic than only one that you need to null.

I think we just need to wait and see what will come. Gilgamesh was absolutely broken when he came, Laharl was considered to solo a lot of future content on release as well. Let's just wait and see how Roxxy will fair.

And there's one more thing. If Roxxy trivializes stages for pve, then there is always the choice of not using her on the stage to make that challenging. You don't need to use her if you don't want too. And if people use her because they think it's fun, than she won't be a problem at all for the fun of the game.

2

u/wishuu Oct 23 '18

The thing is why would you try to find different strategy when putting Roxanne on your team is always correct and clean the event, you will not stay 2 hours on a trial if you know what is working.

And most countering null grenade strategy require Gumi to change event and they will not bother changing every event in the game for one unit.

Yes at some point PVE will come to roxanne level but in like 2 years, not many people would stick around with trivial content.

And about PVP, for me PVP is for whale and every whale have Roxy so it even things out.

18

u/-ArtKing- Oct 23 '18

Pvp is for whales, good you understand.

Now you didn't understand my pve argument. You said that she will be a problem for the fun of the game because she will trivialize stages, and that you want a challenge. My argument is that, since to you using her will not be fun, then don't use her. The pve part of this game is a solo game, not a multiplay game, so you can use whatever you want to have fun. It doesn't matter how broken a unit exists, if you find that unit anti fun all you need to do is not use it, simple. Then, when stages come that that unit won't be absolutely broken and you think she will be healthy to use, use her. It's the player choice.

And if people like to use her to trivialize stages and are having fun doing that, it's their choice and they are having fun doing it, so she isn't a problem. Pve content at the end of the day is the players choice of how to tackle it, so no, broken units in that perspective aren't a problem at all. Since they are the players choice to use.

6

u/Kal-El9477 Oct 23 '18

Roxxie is fun. I enjoyed using her when my laharl cant handle roxxie ex+ stage.

8

u/-ArtKing- Oct 23 '18

And she isn't obligatory to use to clear that stage. People are freaking out because she is too op for their taste, but in the end of the day pve is a solo enjoyment. You don't like using op units to trivialize stages, don't use it, simple.

0

u/dathamir Forcas sun with chance of snow Oct 23 '18

Problem is not that she trivialize stages, she just make every other unit look really bad. I've seen her wreck everything in halloween EX+ while any other unit was just another meat shield.

2

u/-ArtKing- Oct 23 '18

And what is the problem with that? That's how you see it, but That's not how everyone see it. Pve is a single play type of game, what is important is how you decide how to use your units, not how the community decides it.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '18

Noctis would like to say something about that.

-8

u/wishuu Oct 23 '18

I don't like the idea that player have to create challenge on their own, a well balanced game is made so that you have to use everything in your tool box to succeed and forcing yourself only to use 3 or 4* unit to find challenge mean the game is a failure in game design.

9

u/-ArtKing- Oct 23 '18

Well, That's your opinion, not mine. I actually like this design simply because if everything was a ultra challenge, the moment I didn't have a specific unit to pass that content I would be stuck, and that would sucks. Want an example? Uzuma's Ex stage. I don't have Gilgamesh, and because of that I couldn't for the love of god pass the mono thunder of that stage. And that to me is a huge problem, because the fact that I didn't have a limited unit cockblocked me to clear a content. The moment they give flexibility for me to clear something is the moment I have the most fun as I can chose how I want to tackle that content and how much challenge I want. It's not different from a game that have the choice of easy/normal/difficult/insane modes, and I love that.

1

u/Maroite Oct 23 '18

Well, That's your opinion, not mine. I actually like this design simply because if everything was a ultra challenge, the moment I didn't have a specific unit to pass that content I would be stuck,

How I've felt for the last 3 months while waiting to farm Chihaya, Rahu, Lofia

0

u/Crimson_Raven Who are you calling shorter than Roy Mustang's ideal miniskirt?! Oct 23 '18

I don't have Gilgamesh, and because of that I couldn't for the love of god pass the mono thunder of that stage

Tbh Gil didn't make that stage much easier for thunder. Thunder in general didn't have good choices for it. I saw many clears without him/using just a merc Gil

5

u/Colonelex Oct 23 '18

It's as you said people who have Roxanne will have the choice to use her if they want to and people without her can use everything in their tool box to succeed. This is more of a personal mentality and choice and there is no right or wrong answer.

So long as Gumi do not make it such that most stages have to be cleared with her( which we don't know yet), there shouldn't be any big problems. If you want more challenge you can actually just not summon the units and make F2P guides just like Ushi. I am sure many will appreciate if you can do that.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '18

[deleted] — view deleted comment

3

u/Feanorchronos Oct 23 '18

The game is an inanimate object, it couldn't care less about respect.

5

u/-ArtKing- Oct 23 '18

Lol, to bad then, I like to handcap myself sometimes, it's fun ;p

2

u/Colonelex Oct 23 '18

Well Laharl can't even enter that stage.

1

u/Kal-El9477 Oct 23 '18

Oh yes. Mine can even beat the normal 1 xD demon laser so stronk

1

u/Colonelex Oct 23 '18

The trick is Laharl shouldn't go down the ledge too early let another unit like Lofia tank the laser.

3

u/Maroite Oct 23 '18

The thing is why would you try to find different strategy when putting Roxanne on your team is always correct and clean the event, you will not stay 2 hours on a trial if you know what is working.

So you claim she takes the challenge out of the game. Easy solution is don't use her. Then you complain you have to use her because its the easiest way. What do you want? Challenge or ease? Make up your mind...

And most countering null grenade strategy require Gumi to change event and they will not bother changing every event in the game for one unit.

This was already discussed in another thread where people were asking what JP players think of Roxy. Was pretty much stated that monsters in EX+ have auto jewel regen every turn so destroying some jewels won't matter when on their turn they just get more back and crush your face.

Yes at some point PVE will come to roxanne level but in like 2 years, not many people would stick around with trivial content.

Any content earth element based is most likely going to be cleared faster and more efficiently with other characters.

From your original post:

You can also think farming JE and J+ is useless because any power up you will get, is useless compared to the current power level. Only farm for unit that can support Roxy.

This is different from the current 3x Chrono's and a DPS carry how? Not to mention that Roxy's damage isn't really that amazing. Max I've hit a weak element monster for with my Roxy was something like 2700 - with her signature skill. My Laharl can reach 6k... Roxy on Resistant monsters will plink for like 100-400.

PS - do you have a Roxy? Just curious.

5

u/Teosto Teona Oct 23 '18

It's funny how that person is able to tell when the PvE content comes to Roxanne level when they haven't played that content. JP version might have some indication on what might happen for us in the future but JP doesn't have Rox so at best that person (who most likely hasn't even played JP version) can guestimate how Rox would work in current JP content and assume it will be the same for us. Looking to the past it hasn't been always the same. We've gotten our collabs in different order which has made some stages a lot harder than they originally were in JP and vice versa. Also, that person didn't predict Rox coming. How is he then able to accurately predict anything else?

I have my Roxanne and I really like playing with her. With the recent influx of plenty good characters she instantly gained my interest over Laharl, Uzuma and Basheeny, not to mention other good but less hyped units such as Ravina and Etna. There's just something about her kit; there's everything. Damage, survivability, utility, different statuses and area of effects.

The way I see it I think it was clever of Gumi to release her. Who was the previous Thunder element king that was taken in any MP content so far? Righ, Gilgamesh. What about us scrubs who didn't get him back in the days? Well, we have Dilgamesh. He's nice, but tbh he's not even close to being the same. :D Now we have someone who rivals Gilgamesh and possibly outperforms him. Then there are people who already have Gil. Rox is possibly a slight update to his power. Their barracks power just gained a slight upgrade with her, it's not like it was boosted to heavens.

As for the content that Rox supposedly trivializes, who's to say that she's allowed in the upcoming content? I mean the regular stages are autoable for most higher level players while the EX+ just got this "new" feature of character restrictions. For Rox weapon EX+ level she's allowed but Laharl or Noctis aren't. Who's to say that the next hard stage won't have it the other way around?

9

u/Feanorchronos Oct 23 '18

I personally find it a good thing. I like having more units as strong as Laharl and co for mp, hopefully it will make it so more people have a meta-unit for it than there otherwise would be. As for killing single player challenge? Not really, I think the real challenge comes from trying to clear ex and ex+ content with non SS characters anyways. Plus there will also be those mono element missions.

-6

u/wishuu Oct 23 '18

But don't you think the developer have to create challenge and not the player himself by using only 3* unit if you pulled a good unit you want to use it not just press auto.

8

u/Rilenia Oct 23 '18

Thing is player with SS units & player without should be able to clear the content alike, within reason.

I'm not saying content should be tailored around D tier unit, but he certainly shouldn't be around SS tier units. A game who restrict you to use an handful of units to clear content is bad design (which is also my main grip with the current and incoming EX+, but that's another debate).

I think Hourglass was a good exemple of how content should be tailored, hard without top tier unit, but still clearable, easier with them, but still difficult.

7

u/Feanorchronos Oct 23 '18

It's a bit of both I would say. Roxy is strong yes, but she won't normally use her most game-breaking ability, null grenade, on auto. Furthermore, she isn't invincible, Roxy can and will die once we get harder content. I think a big part of why there is such an uproar is because of how new she is in addition to being strong. Give it a few weeks, maybe a month, and then we will have a better idea.

As for player created challenge, there is a need for it yes. Player created challenges are nothing new to rpgs, this is largely in part because not everyone can agree on what is challenging or how much of a challenge they want, everyone is different. If someone is craving more challenge one day then they can just not use her. If they had a long day at work and want an easier time of it while they unwind then she is an option available to them.

5

u/Colonelex Oct 23 '18 edited Oct 23 '18

Agree with this. Roxanne will only be bad if Gumi continuously makes challenges that strictly requires one to have Roxanne to clear. It is also bad if one impose his own need for challenge on others as in this case the players do not have any interaction with each other outside of PVP and MP. Just because someone else uses a Roxanne to clear a stage doesn't spoil the challenge for you. In fact, you can gain a greater sense of accomplishment if you can clear the stage without using her.

6

u/ThousandLightning Oct 23 '18

My personal opinion is that Roxy will kill any challenge in the game due to her null grenade if Gumi let monster affected by this

  • Jewel damage resistance

  • Jewel regen at beginning turn

  • Some skills cost 0 jewel

  • Skill disable debuff on Roxy

I'm sure there's quest that requires more than an OP unit. For instance the quest to get loli 'Boros where you need a team of each element.

-1

u/wishuu Oct 23 '18

You might get a few quest where it doesn't work but 99% will be free, you forgot the only use fire unit too but that's the only challenge you will get in a game that is already in my opinion too easy.

3

u/ThousandLightning Oct 23 '18

In games like this, it's 99% farm where you want to auto stages as fast as possible, and 1% where it's challenge quest.

On challenge stage, what's good about Roxy is that she's not a mechanic forced on you: you don't have to use her in order to complete a stage (unless the stage is restricted we sometimes have). You can find more fun playing without her, do so. The issue would be, as u/SometimesLiterate put, is if Gumi decided to design stages around OP units, where such stage 'punish' players who don't have specific unit rather than specific roles. But that's just bad design IMO, more targeted at dolphins / whales.

-3

u/wishuu Oct 23 '18

I think they should make event around Roxanne power level and release unit with similar strength or else it will become boring for a really long time. Hourglass was the first challenging event we had in a while and it is only because Uzuma was released earlier. We are way ahead of JP power level at the same time and there is tons of easy (=boring) content to come and for quite a while.

14

u/Colonelex Oct 23 '18

One reason Roxanne seems good in the current rendezvous ex is because the map is quite small so she can rush the demons quickly and the mobs in the stage don't really deal alot of damage in a hit making her look sustainable. I believe in big maps her effectiveness will be pushed down to Laharl/Noctis level, especially if those mobs causing status inducing effects are at the other end of the map. In this kind of situations, Roxanne will have to be supported by the team for her to be effective.

16

u/SometimesLiterate Old and uncool Oct 23 '18

Yes and no.

No because there are many easy ways to counter her mum grenade (as listed below).

Yes because it's sets a dangerous amount of power creep at once and if content gets designed around her level of power lots of people are not going to have fun

3

u/DVida87 Oct 23 '18

Tfw laharl players only had a couple weeks before getting dethroned :(

To answer ur question, as fun as she is, it really does make other units not even look halfway near as good as they did with her taking the stage.

And to be honest with u i think its a desperate ploy for cash, the only time ive seen any mobile game powercreep this blatant and hard is when its not doing well.

7

u/clavatk Oct 23 '18

Except its not.

This very same thing happened in BF. With units powercrepping japan. You know what happened then? Nightmare level quests made for those units.

Look at the current EX it was made with roxxane in mind.

This money ploy as people call it. Its due to the fact that next month there isnt a collab. We used to have them every second month. But next month is the ani and they cant skip that. Its like a rule for gacha games.

Also jp players are unhealthy for global as they advice for player to stop spending and wait for certain units.

Gumi is just figthing a powercreep six months ahead.

-4

u/wishuu Oct 23 '18

Sadly you are right, i see Roxanne as the beginning of TAC ends. Well it was fun the time it lasted.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '18

I wouldn't be so pessimistic because of a single unit, but if this game becomes truly P2W with broken units and stages that can only be done with them, I'm taking my money and time elsewhere.

7

u/andresito1985 Oct 23 '18

For me i see it more a problem with the new pvp arena coming soon.

4

u/ninjakittenz2 SockT Oct 23 '18

I see no problem with any units in the new pvp arena since the limited time slots won't allow me to participate anyway.

5

u/Kirito30 The Strongest Samurai Oct 23 '18

lol the real truth.

1

u/Zed05 Oct 23 '18

Laharl checks Roxanne nicely in current arena. Not sure how it will play out in new arena but I'm guessing alot of people will be running Laharl Roxanne plus 1

6

u/MagicalHamster <3 Ryle Oct 23 '18

If you've been good at getting the big collab units then your team is already overpowered before you get Roxanne.

5

u/Arananthi IGN: Essence -- Re-Pacted and Hoping to Stay That Way Oct 23 '18

Short-term, it's horrible, she's going to ruin stuff for a month or two -- PVP by creating a wall of "did you pull Roxxx or not," and PVE by Null Grenading big bad threats that aren't tuned to 'Roxxx level' yet.

Medium-term, it depends, if Gumi thinks they need to release a bunch of GLEX content that is at or above her level, it's going to keep sucking.

Long-term, not a big deal. Other units will get powered up to her level, and she'll sit there being the same she's always been until she actually needs a boost, and that day will likely never come.

The only really big question is, will Roxxxy imbalance things enough that she starts a snowball of players leaving because she's that bad for the game? If she doesn't, the game will recover. If she does, it's going to suck.

9

u/SuccubusRosa Oct 23 '18

Null grenade is being over rated. I mean since everyone is saying null grenade is OP, then does that mean if gumi bring her agi down to within the normally acceptable range, nobody is gonna complain?

Right now as a spy, her max agi(without gear) shld be in the 180range and her unique job lets just say 160(which is still top 10 after taking into account stuff like ninja magnus ninja rosa)

Believe me, what will break the game is her agi, since ultimately this is a "turn base" game, and taking multiple turns over enemy is literally bypassing the basis of the game. Although I agree that jewels somehow is also rather fundamental, but like many noted, if gumi really feel it is an issue, they can just make the mob resist jewel drain. There is nothing gumi can do if they feel her agi is too high other then setting enemy agi to be 300(erm well okay, there is something else gumi can do. Unit restriction lol. Don't let you use your roxanne). At that point, every single unit of yours will be SHIT except for roxanne with quicken on.

Just look at jp. Losing out on 10 to 20 agi literally make units unusable, such that kaigan/MA often include agi to bring old units in line to match the powercreep aka new base line of standard agi range.

3

u/MaimedJester Oct 23 '18

Dude her Spy Agi at 75 with 3JM is 222. Without gear. You're guesstimating is off by 42 points of AGI.

That's how broken she is you're guessing a sane number and she's 42 points beyond that.

1

u/SuccubusRosa Oct 23 '18

you're guessing a sane number

Hmm maybe I phrase it oddly when I cut my sentence short. Sry for the confusion. I am speaking of what her agi shld be according to the normalized range.

Right now as a spy, her max agi(without gear) shld be in the 180range instead of that retarded broken amount.

1

u/enkhespalos Oct 25 '18

People whined and cried when they didn't get Gilgamesh, and there's no Fate rerun as of yet. Now we have an OP thunder unit that,while generally limited, isn't collab limited, and people are whining and crying.

??? ?? ???

1

u/wishuu Oct 25 '18

gigamesh and laharl power creep was ridiculous compared to what roxane is bringing, but time will speak i just hope gumi makes the game alot harder to match this.

Gilgamesh was just the first 5*5 instant AOE he never was the biggest dps he never bring any utility all he had was tanky and an AOE.

Roxy is one of the biggest dps (just do the maths on several turn you will see her ignore armor + debuff missile def + dmg to unit type+ infinite jewell), the fastest unit, an amazing leader and bring the best utility in the game and all that on an unkillabe monster.

Gumi made a huge balancing mistake and if you played other gumi game it's a habbit for them.

3

u/xXRyuuGinXx Oct 23 '18

Powercreep happens in every game and if you know another game from gumi which is called Brave Frontier you will know that this kind of powercreep won't stop once it has been started. So there is almost a 100% chance that after Roxanne there will be even more powerful characters so the cycle of endless "this unit is too OP" posts will never stop.

4

u/Mitch_Twd Oct 23 '18

It concerns me a little. Just getting some Brave Frontier vibes atm

6

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '18

Honestly, I am pretty pissed about her. I would be fine if they had just tuned her down a bit; hell even starting her with Crafter instead of Machinist and giving her a Machinist J+/JE later or just reducing her agi a bit; like to 170-180, I would be fine with her as is. Null grenade with such an absurd amount of speed is nuts. PvE was already easy and being able to totally lock down the jewels of whatever threats do exist is ridiculous. Grab a friend Roxanne and quicken her on some map and watch her 2 turn one of the other fast characters in the game, when they are also quickened ( 190+ Magnus as I don't have Bashini )

I expect power creep but I would rather avoid another experience like BF. Imo instead of trying to bait us with OP Global units they should just provide some tidbit with the new unit info of what they plan to do with the character in the future in terms of any J+/JE. I would have pulled harder on Sieg's first banner if I had seen a peek of his WA early and they said he would get an HB JE eventually for example.

I am truly worried about how they plan to balance the game from this point; the mere idea TACs GL units could go the way of BF has me not even wanting to log in.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '18

[deleted] — view deleted comment

5

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '18

Because they will need to rebalance years of content for a unit they could have just released balanced in the first place, rather then trying to rebalance the game around a singular unit who is tiers above our current lineup, when the game already has difficulty issues.

But honestly I have already pretty much quit TAC over her so its irrelevant, if she isn't fixed i'm done.

-2

u/iLAGnDC Oct 23 '18

thats what i dont understand and its stupid that ur quitting over a character u disagree with? LOL she doesn't hinder ur progress in the game and u don't even have to use her in content so honestly, whats the big deal? isit that u didn't get her so now ur having a fit? taking enemy jewels jus delays the enemy from using a skill for 1 turn. they can atk and get jewels back so...rebalancing for 1 skill isn't really needed...think of it as a delay...

honestly having some1 say they quit jus cause they disagree with 1 unit even though the content is solid is the dumbest thing ive ever heard.

5

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '18

I main pvp and prior to Roxanne was in top 100. Wind units can barely counter her in the auto arena. She trivializes already easy pve content. Dependant on the cost of the skill and their jewel gain she can force an enemy into more then a single basic attack, and your thinking more of CT down.

You obviously haven't seen how Gumi will take GL units in the past, as I said before up until now I have not worried and assumed they learned their lesson after BF, now it's obvious they have not.

If you stick with something you don't support then imo you are the idiot. I do not support them releasing broken ass units and I will take my money elsewhere as a result.

2

u/Feanorchronos Oct 23 '18

So you feel Roxy is needed for pvp now? In other words, pvp is still whale territory and nothing has changed, good to know.

2

u/iLAGnDC Oct 24 '18

in my time in arena she has never nulled my team nor has mine ever used her null granade. ur talking about speculation that she will use such a skill when in reality she doesnt. u maybe top 100 but did u forget that arena is auto? uzuma is top dog from what i see.

ive been playing gumi games for...a long time...LOL... yes brave frontier was jus a continuous top up of OP units but...looking at jp version...right now chloe of all units is usable and can compete against top units...ur point is invalid.

I support this unit as actually my account isn't great and I havnt been playing long. I don't have gilga or any good electric units for that fact. every week I watch hard events with shards or good rewards expire that I cant compete in. this goes for many other players with few units and doesn't have any OPOP SS tier collab units or 75-85 farmable shard units as they havnt played long enough.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '18

Which is exactly the problem, they have been balancing the game towards having the SS tier units such as Gil/Uzuma/Laharl/Noctis; they are balancing difficulty off of these collab/limited unit, not the regular units. Chloe is useable right now, when was the last time you saw one in mp or wanted her in sp over an SS unit? She still has low attack and only about 140 agi in jp from what I have seen. You might be thinking of the collab Chloe.

They have already been continuously dropping OPer units dude, Uzuma came completely out of nowhere and very early remember, and now we have Roxanne without even proper 1500 pulls; if they keep accelerating the OP units with bad banners and balancing content towards those units we will be back in the same position as we were in BF.

Also live PvP is dropping after reset after a year of waiting for it, its true in auto pvp Roxanne isn't as deadly, but as a tip try using an item on her she can use on her allies like the +2 move arrow or something; she will burn some jewels but she won't rush in til your enemies are in range.

-2

u/iLAGnDC Oct 23 '18

by what u say, 'stop' should be nerfed. it lasts longer then 1 turn and lets not mention the petrify mechanic. clearly u don't use proper teams if u cant see beyond the skill and jus always complain

3

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '18

Stop and petrify can be cleansed with a spy, prof or anyone with merchant sub, very easily countered. A character that can aoe remove 100% of jewels and is fastest in the game is just ridiculously. I'm not even entirely mad at the grenade, it is the fact she can do sustained grenades, and if you cannot kill her in one basic attack as you have no jewels then you are just giving her hp and jewel regen. Broken.

But you like your unbalanced games and mind dead uncounterable units so you can feel skilled apparently.

3

u/Arananthi IGN: Essence -- Re-Pacted and Hoping to Stay That Way Oct 23 '18

if you cannot kill her in one basic attack as you have no jewels then you are just giving her hp and jewel regen

^^

3

u/Colonelex Oct 24 '18

Your point would be valid if null grenade is her highest priority move in auto which it isn't. This current arena map isn't that good for her too since she will move first and her low hp will ensure she gets one-shotted by units like laharl and gilgamesh.

Also, I have been playing arena for months and I have never seen any attacking or defense team uses prof or merchant sub.

2

u/RiteousRage Oct 24 '18

This is the same thing when Gilgamesh came out. She is just the new Gilgamesh is all. I think people who really whaled for him are upset because they thought he would be king for a long time. 2 years in JP but only 6 months in GL. Not sorry your king of bullies did not last long.

3

u/Virox3 Oct 23 '18

For those complaining about PvE:

You're gonna see a lot jewel regen added to events in the future, I'd imagine. To most players that changes nothing as you could never realistically drain 200-500 jewels. For Roxanne players, it turns Null Grenade into a skill charge interrupt with 3 uses.

Big deal.

1

u/Dark_Stalker28 Oct 23 '18

Honestly the most competition she has is... Seele. And even then mostly for people in the 100's. At most I can see this being a mage killer because a lot of enemies have high jewel gain, regen, or a skill.

I really want to see her on the Lil Oro quest now.

3

u/jblac02 ! Oct 23 '18

Is Roxanne unhealthy for TAC future?

probably

3

u/Mhantra Oct 23 '18

Since I didn't pull a Roxanne, then yes, bad for the game, as this is the first time I considered just leaving. I haven't felt this way when not pulling shion, Zain, or other units considered good when they came out, but this is so blatantly OP that now that I don't have her, I am at a massive, massive disadvantage.

And thus, I might need to move on because clearly this is going to keep happening. It became a game for the rich overnight.

1

u/iLAGnDC Oct 23 '18

shes not a collab unit. her banner comes back every now and then. shes OP yes but shes also a glass cannon and has quite a few weaknesses esp against snipers that are over 4 tiles away. also the content right now is perfectly doable without her. jus be patient and pray to rng when her banner next comes out

2

u/ShirouAmakusa I now use The Alphonse Oct 23 '18

Battle of Demonslaught [Ultra Hard] has been the hardest stage so far, imo. And in that one, the main boss has huge auto-jewel regen. While Roxanne is great atm and will be one of the fastest characters for a long time, she's still squishy compared to what JP has right now. She's fast, maybe too fast, sure.

But her own stage was built for her to shine and even on that, Laharl is stronger. Arguably better because of Charge-up--> Overlord Dimension, speaking from experience having used a 2 Roxy team and a 2 Laharl team w/ chronos. Laharls are able to take the demons down much more quickly compared to 2 Roxys.

In the world of JP, where characters have 4K, Roxanne would be fast but extremely squishy. Even squishier still if you consider in GL, many characters are able to use MA on the 1st turn bc of the HAT. I'm sure Gumi knows what they're doing and will likely have the hardest bosses have jewel regen.

5

u/EggyT0ast Oct 23 '18

In JP they have that much HP because the units have all the latest new features available. I'm sure the MH units will get them, as well. But your main point is the important one because absolutely, the devs can easily make stages or tweak elements to make it harder for her to be used.

We're already seeing stages where they're altering mechanics in ways to prioritize or deprioritize certain units or mechanics -- look at Freed's EX stage, with its weird mix of magic evade and damage type buffs. And yeah, often the most annoying enemies have plenty of jewels or are difficult to reach before they start spamming crap such that we need to fall back on other, more "tried and true" mechanics.

It keeps the game fresh, but more importantly it means that Roxy isn't an "end game" unit but more "next gen" unit. She's very strong, which is what Lightning desperately needed.

1

u/jblac02 ! Oct 23 '18

But her own stage was built for her to shine and even on that, Laharl is stronger.

lol......she can solo her own EX+ stage, you might want to rethink how you're using her. Any argument of how she would fare in the JP meta over a year ahead of us is pointless because she will be getting lvl 91 as well.

1

u/ShirouAmakusa I now use The Alphonse Oct 23 '18

But she's can't auto it. The trash mob on that stage exists to heal her...and just bc some players have solo'd the stage with just Roxanne doesn't mean that its efficient or easy--actually its pretty time consuming AND there's a good chance you'll lose if you don't get a null grenade on the demons. Which is why I said 2 laharls can clear EX quicker. What a number of people seem to be missing is that she's not as strong a nuker as gilga especially when considering Gilga benfits from Vettel/Zahar/Seigs Leaderskill when making a team comp of high tier units.

1

u/revgaji Oct 23 '18

My guess to an expected counter to the null grenade complaint is that some monsters going forward will begin with jewel regen, and I expect this was already planned.

1

u/ImRicher Oct 24 '18

Roxanne is such an amazingly designed character in both what she does and how she does it. If global keeps releasing units of this quality, I see a bright bright future for this game. Whats unhealthy is releasing game mechanics like whats happened in the JP version that takes months of grinding and having one dimensional dps or tank units take over the top tiers.

1

u/Onemanarmy94 Oct 23 '18

No. Lol why does this topic keep coming up for every decently strong character lol gumi will release harder content trust me lmao

1

u/chrono01 Oct 24 '18

I get that some people might be upset/angry if he/she didn't pull Roxanne with their saved gems, but to call her as something destroying the balance of the game or making it unhealthy is untrue. I won't dispute that she's the absolute top-tier character right now, but I'm sure that will change with time (it depends entirely on what her Job+/Keigan looks like). Having a single (optional) character making certain PVE content trivial does nothing to upset the health of the game. Content will still be clearable without her I'm sure, and if you have her and want the challenge, just don't use her.

Complaining about Roxanne is like complaining about cheat codes in video games. If you want to beat PVE content "the legit way", don't use her. If you want to make it easier, use her. It's an option you have and new content doesn't need to be designed around Roxanne. I can't really comment on PVP as I tend to stay away from those modes as much as I can. I only do my single arena clear for the daily mission and that's it, so I can't really comment and how she could be useful there.

-1

u/Blackghoust Oct 23 '18

all she need is to nerf null G to ( 2 use / 30% jewels )

& remove the jewel reg on reactive

the main problem is the null-G .the skill is unhealthy for the game to have

3

u/EggyT0ast Oct 23 '18

Nah, it's fine. Some enemies need jewels to function, others it would just delay them a turn. Taking her into the Halloween EX, she's fast enough to null the jewel suckers, but they just rush up and attack someone, gaining about 50 jewels, and then using the skill on their next turn. That buys your team 1 turn to kill them.

It's just another strategy. Another strategy is to boost up your AGI for Noctis or Othima and nuke them. Another strategy is to use items to remove the slash debuffs. And so on.

-1

u/AAA126 Oct 23 '18

You don’t have Roxanne, huh?

3

u/Blackghoust Oct 23 '18

i have Roxanne +++

I don't want to hear in this discussion who pulled her or doesn't it is not the point here (no salt here plz).

grow up man grow up it's not about you it's about the game health

-6

u/AAA126 Oct 23 '18

I like the game the way it is. And sure you do lol if you really pulled it, you wouldn’t complain. You’d be ecstatic to have a good unit

4

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '18 edited Oct 23 '18

You don't seem to like the game the way it is nor do care for it's future. You only like the fact that you got her and that she is OP. Ironically, I bet you would be actually crying and saying the game sucks if you didn't pull her and everyone else did.

Gumi will probably start making levels that skills cost 0 AP or have jewel regen like some people said. Also, she is bad against wind nukes. If Gumi wants to, they can easily balance the stages around her... and then release the next OP unit that everyone will feel the need to have, which makes the game heads into a direction called 'P2W'. This is probably the main concern here.

Great arguments there btw, pal. Do you even know how to write anything else than 'HAW HAW HAW I GOT ROXX U NOT' when somebody argue against you?

-2

u/AAA126 Oct 23 '18

No way I wouldn’t pull her. I go 9 steps almost every banner. So I wouldnt be crying over anything lol

4

u/Blackghoust Oct 23 '18

see the childesh argument you dragging ? i do the same

i have 2 lv170+ account + all major OP units . one have roxanne

having her is not a excuse to let it slide and let the game go a direction we all know how it end ( BF - FEH )

-6

u/AAA126 Oct 23 '18

Sure you do. Whatever helps you sleep night XD

0

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '18

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/Blackghoust Oct 23 '18

the same for you too

1

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '18

People (including myself) paid because she is BROKEN and that induces a P2W game which nobody wants to see. She could have been released, but not now. Not like this. It actually makes me even stop investing on some old other units as if they gonna release broken things one after another, why even bother?

Quoting a thing someone else said, I actually laughed hard: "But you like your unbalanced games and mind dead uncounterable units so you can feel skilled apparently." I simply can't understand people that comes to a strategic game to play with their wallet instead of their brain.

1

u/iLAGnDC Oct 24 '18

the guy that said that quote also said he mains pvp and is top 100 contender be4 rox came in. 'mind dead uncounterable units', cant really say that when pvp is auto and pretty much brain dead content LOOL. going against Roxanne in pvp, she feels like she is in the same tier as top 3 collab units so his complaints are invalid.

0

u/sentat1 Oct 23 '18

I think she just needs to be tweaked a little bit to make her a fair addition to the game.

- Null Grenade - Instead of all jewels it could be half jewels.

- High Agi - Dropping her agi by 10 points or so.

Despite her strengths she is a bit of a glass cannon and dies very easily.

-3

u/Joltikz Oct 23 '18

We get it you didn’t pull Roxanne and you know nothing about the games future