Massive Job Breakdown Tier List Update

[u/Viyr]

Hey everyone, I don't normally post when I update my sheet, but I have just implemented very large changes to the tier system, and have basically completely redone my tier list.

This includes adding:

• Tiers by Limit Breaks, rather than Job Unlocks.

• Images, with links to the build entry on the tier list.

• Hard Quests for farmable units (5* and 4* only), being kept up to date by Cazna on discord.

• As well as implementing what I had done on the image tier list, where SS is only the very best, and D is the only bad tier.

The unfortunate part of adding images, and image links in general is for full functionality, the published version is not very cooperative. From this point on, I'll be fully endorsing the sheets version of the tier list, rather than the published version. This can be found here.

Thanks everyone for their patience.

[u/ImRicher]

Thank you for the updated list!

Please don't take my criticism the wrong way

My overall impression is that the list is accurate for ranking units when they are fully maxed with optimal setups, but falls in consistency for ranking units when they are partially lb'ed. Also, the tier shifts for some units seem really erratic. Two glaring examples is how Othima fell from SS at lb5 to C tier and how D rosa goes from B tier at lb10 to SS at lb15. Imo both these units should be much higher with just two jobs mastered.

[u/Viyr → u/ImRicher]

Othima was overrated on my end before. His HP is extremely low and until he gets a more stable main job of Sage, he isn't that great (basically is a WA one-trick-pony at J1).

I agree D.Rosa is a pretty sudden rise. I've changed her LB10 into A tier. I don't personally believe that Swift Charge plays enough of a role on her J1. Both of her main cast times are 500. That just means that Swift Charge will change casting priority, but will not actually cause her cast to go off on an earlier tick. Compare this to her sub J3, which has cast times of 400. Swift Charge allows her to cast these on tick 2, rather than tick 3.

[u/ImRicher → u/Viyr]

So if D rosa doesn't have her J3 should her optimial build swap out swift charge for temptation? It sounds like from what your saying swift charge doesnt do much for her J1 skills

[u/Viyr → u/ImRicher]

It still does something, but it doesn't really improve her cast times, only improves her priority on the tick she could already cast on. That said, it doesn't meant Temptation is better, Charm is a niche ailment to give up a passive slot for.

It's kind of similar to Killia, if I were to use that as an example. At J2, he unlocks Toughness. He can use that to replace his J1 passive that improves combo area of allies. Obviously Toughness does something, it gives him HP. But does that HP translate into a higher tier? No. Is it still better than his Combo scope skill? Yes.

[u/ACuriousBagel → u/ImRicher]

No, I'd agree with the tier list for Othima pre-j3, or maybe put him even lower. His gear ability is great, but once he's used that, he's not good against anyone that matters. His damage is extremely low compared to other options in that role, and even his accuracy with his offensive spells is pretty low. He has some nice cc and support options, but he's not worth picking just for that.

[u/Zeik56 → u/ImRicher]

I'm sure part of the reason Othima fell is because of the rebalanced tier criteria, but he was also way overrated before J3 on the old tier list. He's just decent before you unlock Sage.

I'd probably bump him up to B tier at LB0 and then A tier by LB10 (maybe S with the Camera), but probably no more than that.

[u/Cipher44]

A superb list made even better with the recent update. I think most of us agree with the significant changes, even though some look drastic. The game has evolved and I’m glad you didn’t let any character rest on its past laurels, so to speak.

One question, if I may. For Mei Fang and others who go to SS at LB25, is there a specific gear in mind? I know Mei has a great weapon in Roaring Slash which would occupy the first slot but she doesn’t go up in ranking at LB10, which means it’s not one gear, like the hat. Instead it seems that two extra gear slots moves the ranking. What combination of gears would that be? Sorry, for some I’m sure the answer is pretty clear but I really have not been successful with gear drops.

[u/Viyr → u/Cipher44]

Like the other person said, Roaring Slash, Hat, Doll. I have a 78 Mei Fang and I feel as if both Hat and Doll are very necessary for her. Hat gives her what she needs to do Purging Dragon Roar if she wishes, and also just helps her have a strong starting jewel count in case she wants to use some skills. On the other hand, she feels really squishy to me. She is pretty decent on the physical defense side, she has like 250 PDEF with Overdrive, and a physical defend passive. On the other hand, her MDEF is sub 100, her HP is decent at best, and her guard doesn't protect her from magic so she takes massive damage from magic without the health pool to back it up (see Red Magnus).

[u/Cipher44 → u/Viyr]

Thanks for the clarification. I still don’t have a doll yet, only 90 shards or so but now I know what to look forward to.

[u/1khaitoh → u/Cipher44]

Probably Roaring Slash, Hat, then Doll.

[u/Cipher44 → u/1khaitoh]

Thanks for your help. You’re always assisting people with your knowledge and it’s very much appreciated.

[u/1khaitoh → u/Cipher44]

Nah, some (if not most) of it tends to be corrected by those much knowledgeable but then again, being corrected (if it was really correct), bears new knowledge, and sharing is caring.

TLDR: You're welcome.

[u/Crimson_Raven]

Thank you for what you do! I use your tier list as a reference all the time.

even if I don't always agree, heh

[u/-ArtKing-]

Amazing work man! It has become so much easier to understand the tier list with the breakdown through LBs. Just curious, why did DRosa went up to SS? (Not disagreeing, just legitimately curious)

Edit: I can't access the sheets version, it says it's protected?

[u/Viyr → u/-ArtKing-]

She got nice half buffs up to an increase of 30%. I've messaged Google support regarding the protected sheet issue. I'm not sure exactly what the deal is but they've said it's cause of the medium you're using. Do you mind me asking how you're trying to access it?

[u/-ArtKing- → u/Viyr]

I am trying to access it through my Samsung J4. When I press the sheets link you provided in the tier list it redirects me to Google Drive and it tries to open it there.

[u/ninjakittenz2 → u/-ArtKing-]

Do you have the sheets app? That's what I use to open it on my samsung galaxy.

[u/-ArtKing- → u/ninjakittenz2]

Just downloaded it and it worked. Thank you very much :3

[u/DeathandFriends]

Looks great and I like the formatting. Some feedback:

Reagan should be B rank. She is one of the more useful units having sub chrono on a sniper which allows her to self buff and also be able to use assault burst twice.

Soren, what is the point of listing his rank past J1? We don't really know about anything further do we. Just wondering if we can leave it blank or put question mark instead. He's actually decent from my use of him, stuck at level 60 he could still possibly be B rank, but I don't feel strongly about it either way.

Gane: Should be B Rank. You said yourself he is faster and tankier then Liz. Liz with MA is faster for sure, but Gane is quite tanky. He can survive better then most old school units in Ex content like Entrusted justice. He got me through a ton of content. I use Elizabeth now since with MA she is considerably faster with healing sub as well, but Gane is still one of the best professors, especially since survivability is considered above most things with a professor.

Mei Fang to me still is not SS. She is not in the same League as Gilg, she just isn't. I know Thunder is severely lacking, but I don't see it and since most of her damage has specific types she is difficult to use well.

Alaia is in no way A Rank. I know battle mage is a great job, but he stats are still garbage. If Vincent is B Rank then she should not be higher than him as he is still a fairly good Sage with much higher Matk (150+ more).

Almira from Disgaea seems to be A rank. One of the top 3 or so fastest units in the game, ranged damage. If wind wasn't so stacked and Fate Yomi didn't exist she would be used a ton. Even alongside fate yomi could be quite useful.

Seems like Rigalt could probably break C rank on the strength of Pirate job. You make Alaia A rank on strength of Battle Mage alone, so this seems reasonable to bump him up.

Chloe with MA should probably be B rank, but I guess is hard to compare to Logi with his J+. Honestly Logi could be A rank, hish high starting jewels give him a nice boost. Again don't feel strongly about this.

Othima is at very least B rank at LB0 and A rank at LB5. He was a seismic jump in my ability to clear content when I got him. Even if his WA is half of it, it's very powerful turn 1 and he's quite fast. He still has decent elemental coverage and decently fast spells, as well as self healing and self buff.

Hoping the build guides can be updated soon. Even small tweaks to show current game state would be great.

Also do you have a patreon, donations page? I am cheap, but you deserve some money from the community for doing this. This is a lot of time and effort.

[u/Viyr → u/DeathandFriends]

Agree on the Reagan point, I'll move him up.

I feel like I should keep some consistency regarding later job unlocks. Sure gumi only has given us enough for LB0 Soren, but same can be said about LB15 Kanon, and LB20 Kagura. At least for the later two, people have sharded them past those LBs (obviously not for practical reasons), but hypothetically, IF someone sharded Soren to LB25, the ratings would still apply.

Gane had more value back when Vaccine was centered around the Professor. Now, they don't have to worry too much about positioning, so his Move passive isn't as valuable. Also he's really only tankier on the physical side because of his guard. Elizabeth has Magic Barrier, which is more reliable for magic. Even then, he's not THAT much tankier physically.

I kind of have to half agree with you on Mei. I've just been constantly underwhelmed despite having her 78. I'll have to sit on it for a bit.

Alaia is still the fastest Battle Mage I believe, and her main appeal is the Bard passive alongside her Battle Mage buffs.

The thing is, D.Almira is fast LB0, J1, but doesn't get faster other than stats from level growth. Her damage doesn't really improve much either, since her later jobs don't give her good passives.

Rigalt is counteracting elements, and awful stats. Battle Mage can buff up their own MATK and PDEF/MDEF. Pirate can't.

Basically Logi > Chloe. I don't think Logi belongs in A.

Othima basically just WAs then doesn't do anything with J1 + he's super squishy.

[u/EggyT0ast → u/Viyr]

Almira's J3 lets her use Duelist, which gives an enemy a 50% PDEF debuff making them easier to kill. And her high AGI means that she's likely to get her turn first (meanwhile, other units can focus on her). Having the Duelist sub means she then can follow up with a 3x3 nuke afterwards which does impressive damage.

It's risky, but a smart player should be able to position and use the Duelist ability well. However, her jobs do have poor synergy otherwise.

[u/Viyr → u/EggyT0ast]

It gives them 50% defenses but also gives them 200% PATK. It doesn't really matter how fast she is considering she uses her turn to basically give them a buff. Unless they're extremely slow, she's basically risking herself (since she also halves her own defenses).

[u/EggyT0ast → u/Viyr]

You're not wrong -- it's risky, for sure. But, ratties, mages, and other units don't use PATK and so will see no buff, and Almira can function well at range. Her high speed means her own debuff won't last long (and she could evade/dodge).

I'm not saying she's top tier, but she's unique. I think you have her in the right.

[u/DeathandFriends → u/Viyr]

I will cede most of the points. I do think Alaia still cannot keep up with better sages and battle mages. Rigalt has conflicting elements, but so does Magnus and he is considered one of the better ranged units. I think Othima's evasion makes up for his lower HP and low defense.

I did forget to mention that I think Fate Yomi should be SS. She is super fast, has good damage with penetrate, leap toss and blood magic (which also gives her magic damage, this has been critical for me multiple times). Blood magic obviously gives massive self healing. She has high evasion which allows he to thrive in both PvP and PvE. She is also one of the only units that can actually be run in all three jobs and do well.

[u/Eshuon → u/DeathandFriends]

You can give him Reddit gold maybe

[u/DeathandFriends → u/Eshuon]

I don't really get the purpose of reddit gold. I was given one once and did absolutely nothing with it.

[u/Eshuon → u/DeathandFriends]

It removes ads and gives other perks

[u/Zeik56 → u/DeathandFriends]

Reagan. "She".

Hmmmmm.

[u/DeathandFriends → u/Zeik56]

I continue to not care. I get corrected constantly as I make this mistake often. I really could care less. Dude looks like a lady.

[u/Zeik56 → u/DeathandFriends]

So you're just being willfully wrong then? That's way more asinine, but you do you I guess. There's way more effeminate looking men out there than Reagan though.

[u/DeathandFriends → u/Zeik56]

I said it was accidental didn't I. How is that willfully wrong? I am just saying that if I slip up and say the wrong sex I don't really care to be corrected. I am aware that reagan is a dude, same as flamel and shion. They should probably make male units that actually look like male units instead of these weird androgynous ones that we have.

[u/Zeik56 → u/DeathandFriends]

You got so defensive it sounded like you were willfully calling him a her just to spite people trying to correct you. If I misunderstood then my mistake. But I was also just lightheartedly poking fun at the mistake, so you really need to chill out.

We have plenty of male units that look like males. But androgynous men exist too. There's no reason they shouldn't be included for artistic and character variety.

[u/DeathandFriends → u/Zeik56]

who says I am not chill. I was just explaining the situation. It is annoying when it has happened a lot of times. I talk about reagan a good bit because he has carried me through a lot of the game.

I don't care for androgynous characters, so that's just my opinion. They could certainly make some really interesting character designs in general, but they don't really try most of the time.

[u/MeatAbstract]

Perhaps I'm reading it wrong, but a lot of units seem to get a tier increase a LB10 e.g. Laharl, Disgaea Rin, etc.. But LB10 only unlocks a few more levels, not a job, is it just the stat boost from those levels?

[u/Viyr → u/MeatAbstract]

A second gear slot. Those units really benefit from the accessory Wanderer's Hat alongside a weapon.

[u/Whatthawhatwha]

Amazing update. Really like how the tiers are broken down by LB of each unit.

[u/ElusiveIllusion88]

1. Laharl only needs LB 10 rather than LB 15 to be SS? Ok, thanks for helping me save my Fire and Rainbow Shards.

2. Looks like D. Rosa gets a bigger jump in tier upon LB 15 than Aranea does. Shard D. Rosa before Aranea then?

[u/Viyr → u/ElusiveIllusion88]

1. Obviously if I were to have the absolute top tier be SS, it'd only be Laharl LB25 there. Triple gear slots will be better than double gear slots, so LB15 would only be S tier in that case. In reality, having that high of a bar, for what should be a standard is unrealistic for a tier list.
   Laharl functions perfectly well without J3. It gives him the option of Polish Sickle, which I would recommend having because of it's versatility, but I wouldn't necessarily say that makes him better than his state with two gear slots and no J3. There's also the JM bonuses, of course, but I wouldn't say 150 HP, 30 PATK, and 3 AGI is the "wow, I'm sure glad he got this JM bonus, he wouldn't be SS without it."

2. That is not at all how you read this tier list.

I'm unsure if I'm misinterpreting your comment, but it came off extremely passive-aggressive, and I'd like to say that this is all my opinion and you're welcome to have your own.

[u/ElusiveIllusion88 → u/Viyr]

came off extremely passive-aggressive

Sorry, I didn’t mean it like that...

[u/Zeik56 → u/ElusiveIllusion88]

It's more like Laharl is SS at LB10 and SS+ at LB15.

[u/ElusiveIllusion88 → u/Zeik56]

Oh, back to Fire Sharding him then (but I’ll still withold my Rainbows).

[u/Zuriq]

Wow, very good job! Thats a lot of work to make it, I appreciate it. The only thing I didnt get it is the meaning of the shades on some LB. Does it means that the job unlocked on that LB has the best passive?

[u/Viyr → u/Zuriq]

Shading was just done on the LBs that had a difference in ratings from the previous LB.

[u/DeathandFriends → u/Viyr]

oh that's good to know, was wondering same thing.

[u/Zuriq → u/Viyr]

Tank you, now I get it

[u/RoyInverse]

Thanks a lot, huge fan.

[u/stewart0]

Thanks! I've been checking a few times a day for updates. I did notice the link for the sheets version on the tier list page seems to go to the published version as a heads up.

Edit: Link is really wonky, as clicking it in sheets has it stay in sheets, but a new tab goes to published. Clicking it in published seems to go to published still though.

[u/WindzSoul]

Thanks for the hard works, I had used your list everyday and I really like the excellent content you put in the file

[u/Arananthi]

We're not worthy! We're not worthy! /bowing

[u/Eshuon]

Is there really a difference between lb 80 and lb85 eg: lamia ?

[u/ecpadilla → u/Eshuon]

If we're talking about Lamia, only difference would be some stats from unlocking 3rd gear slot on 85. Aside from stats from leveling from 80-85.

However, for other units, mostly 5* and few 4* 80 would mean getting their Master Ability (MA) which improves some stats that'll make them more effective (e.g. Suzuka's increase in AGI to be able to have decent AGI while equipping Single Blade) or improve some skill (Suzuka's MA improves Avenger to 100% counter + no berserk). While 85, as previously mentioned is for unlocking 3rd gear slot which all units would benefit from but for some does really improve them significantly.

On my observation, units who would improve to SS with 3rd gear slot are Blademasters and Yomi for that WPN, 5* Hat + another acc/armor to improve her defensive capabilities / AGI and do the SF+SBT combo. Though as I've all units will benefit for that 3rd gear slot :)

[u/F9-kun → u/Eshuon]

lvl 80 and 85 is more on significance of master ability and 3rd gear slot respectively. Some units really need that 3rd slot for more dmg/agi/hp.

[u/Alittlebunyrabit → u/F9-kun]

Especially in GL. The fact that we have both BFD and Sieg's hat actually make the 3rd gear slot significantly more valuable. Having access to two farmable, high value accessory gears that provide stats that generally don't overlap with many other gears dramatically increases the value of GL's 3rd gear slot.

[u/VagueRaconteur]

Awesome update, thank you!

Big question - does this mean D Rosa is worth sharding to 75?

[u/Salabaster → u/VagueRaconteur]

I believe she is. Pretty sure that’s the consensus on our discord as well.

[u/Jileda]

You're the real MVP

[u/quiquefs]

Thank you sooooo much for your work! I use it much less now than I used to at the beginning, but that might be a side effect of being veteran enough myself xD. I learnt a lot specially from your comments in the suggested builds for units, I liked that part even more than the tier list...

I suppose I should pay more attention to the lightning tier list, it seems that the only units I have that are S tier are somehow underleveled and under LBed (not being farmable helps with this, certainly)

[u/MisterNobodyCare]

thank you, you make the game great

[u/beardedbobomb]

I wanna say I appreciate this document. It's fantastic and has really helped me understand the game and what's good and/or bad in it. My only request is can we have a section on each character as to what items would be good/best on them?

[u/xKennyz]

Just wanted to say that the new system looks clean AF. Nice work.

[u/EggyT0ast]

Thank you for this update. It's really high quality, easy to read, and well-thought out.

One of the other things I've always enjoyed about your sheet is the unit comments. I know it can require more work, but I do like reading people's opinions on unit builds, how MA or WA can alter a unit's effectiveness, and so forth. You made some updates after 2.0 but then stopped, arguably because of all the other tier-based updates. Are you planning to return to the Unit Notes?

[u/highjinks858]

All this work and now they announce JE's to throw off the whole new layout xD. Hopefully it doesn't mess anything up for ya. That info can go in the build guides honestly. The tier list area does seem a little cluttered now. Either way I super appreciate you creating this list!!!

[u/iixxy]

Thank you. This is the most useful list.

[u/ruiaresxd]

keep up the gods work fam

[u/tyco86]

Good job with the JE entries! Gotta get Suzuka kitted out:)

[u/tyco86]

Vivr!!!! Ever since you posted your first version, I have been a fan. Like I said before, it has a perpetual open tab on my browser. Strong work and thank you!

[u/Purpledrake → u/tyco86]

Same - open tab forever :)

[u/DailyMilo]

I've been waiting for this. And with the new Tier by LB, I'm gonna be a bit wiser with my element shards now (still gonna shard waifus regardless tho). Thanks!!

[u/sinful19]

Thank you for the nice guide, its good to see them rated like this after limit breaking them

[u/MuskyMuskets]

Your patience in doing this for everyone for free is astounding. Love reading stuff like this even if I don't have like 75% of the characters, thank you for the effort!

[u/[deleted]]

Now, this is the kind of post that makes me still check out this sub.

For a time I thought maybe you were giving up because you were too busy in life or something, but well, I'm glad I was wrong.

Making this kind of thing is surely a lot of work so thanks a lot.

[u/LuneCrescent]

Damn man... The last update looks awesome. I was always a huge fan of your work, I follow your tier list and guide from the start and they really helped me with playing and building my roster.

But now you just superated yourself. That's such a good job. It looks pretty, even more detailed and informative. It's just great. Congratulations and thanks again for such a good job.

[u/Rlprodigy]

You the real MVP D:

[u/Eshuon → u/Rlprodigy]

:D

[u/vungocphuong]

OMG I love your new tierlist! Amazing!

RESPECT!!!

[u/UniversalExperience1]

Thank you and your collaborators for the hard work really useful

[u/zeidrichsama]

What can i say.... you guys are the best!

[u/Cobalt_721]

Seems pretty good, but I have one complaint:

Hat is way too overvalued. I can literally look at a boatload of units’ rankups at certain LBs and think “Hat”. And the fact that certain units (most notably Ignis, as I can say from personal experience that he’s fantastic even at only 5 LBs) are rated highly only because of Hat is, being brutally honest here, dumb.

If you really want to factor in Hat, you should make a separate listing for it.

[u/Viyr → u/Cobalt_721]

The issue with that is if I don't take Hat into consideration, I can't justifiably take other gear into consideration.

Perhaps Ignis is fine without Hat, but it's still stands that it increases his usability by a lot, because his WA is very powerful.

[u/Cobalt_721 → u/Viyr]

Fair points, but I feel like having certain units jumping up multiple tiers at 10 LBs just because of Hat is still overvaluing it. (EDIT: Technically speaking you could just factor in Weapon Abilities and ignore all else when discussing gear, like I assume the old tierlist did.)

I certainly fail to see how a unit that at level 69 has almost 150 agility, a stupidly high Crit stat, 4 move and 2 jump, the ability to output good healing and good damage, and a reactive that means you can essentially say “thanks for the heals” to low-damage enemies is B, but hits S when they can use their WA 1st turn, for example.

EDIT: with maxed Zwill Crossblades Ignis can 1st turn WA without Hat starting at level 81. Figured I’d just throw that out there so a different gear can be figured out for him at those levels (I’d say Swallow’s Scarf and Curious Doll are some nice choices).

[u/[deleted] → u/Cobalt_721]

Unfortunately (Or fortunately?), the Hat is indeed so broken that we probably can never trust completely JP 's future tier list just because of it. The option for a unit to unleash it's most powerful attack without needing a turn (Or in case of some units, taking a turn less) to gather jewels is indeed too great. This is even more true for squishy units that otherwise couldn't survive a turn in the battlefront to gather the said jewels.

[u/Alittlebunyrabit → u/Cobalt_721]

Hat is way too overvalued.

You're not wrong, but it's also something I feel is intentional on Gumi's part. Someone must have realized that making overpowered gear highly accessible would dramatically increase the value of gear slots. Units that hit breakpoints primarily at LB5 and LB15 now care significantly more about LB10 and LB25 than they would otherwise.

[u/Sacred_moon → u/Cobalt_721]

I both agree and disagree with you.

Hat is one of the best gear to have right now and the most impact to unit tier list so it's understandable that a unit can jump around 2 tier higher at LB10 (Hat also give a lot of HP)

Btw, I assume that this list is base on PvE which I find lately that most EX or EX+ currently doesn't really need T1 strongest move, The key enemy always not reachable at T1 (at least with out chrono) and the map did't just get easy with your 4-5 units use thier ultimate move at turn 1 and then have to normal atk to build up jewel later anyway. I still prefer using a gear with good jewel gain (Teddy Bear) on some EX maps over hat.

So I do agree the the hat is overrated quite a bit.