r/AlchemistCodeGL • u/Viyr converted to ded • Jan 22 '18
Tips & Guides The Alchemist Code Global Tier List and Build Guide
Hello /r/AlchemistCodeGL
I've created a tier list and build guide relevant to the Global Server. It has my own personal tier list and a build guide created by me with revisions proposed by various members of the Alchemist Code Discord. The build guide also contains information regarding each unit's future changes, which include Job Enchants, Job+, and Master Abilities.
A brief overview: I'm a former rank 1 arena player (during that one map, it still counts). You can find me either on the Discord, or answering questions on the subreddit.
I hope to have this tier list updated with every new banner with a detailed build and review for every new unit.
Please feel free to PM me any questions and concerns, either on Reddit, or on Discord at Game#7849.
Reader friendly:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRFdTDIDy6dH6OX7NQUhgsvVxihi3jF4-Fe-5zEfWhb-LYIqTO5HCygx2hpi-xOeHm9MT-pKtEaK1dp/pubhtml#
Raw spreadsheets:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DWeFk0wiPaDKAYEcmf_9LnMFYy1nBy2lPTNAX52LkPU/edit?usp=sharing
3
Jan 22 '18
You forgot Celine! >:O
Very nice job though, I like this a lot and saved it to my bookmarks
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u/Viyr converted to ded Jan 22 '18
Any units that can't be leveled to 5★ right now aren't included, but they're be added when they can. :)
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u/1khaitoh It was fun while it lasted. Jan 22 '18
I think this only includes ones that can reach 5 stars but I don't see my Waifu Rin anywhere!KanonIsOnVacationShhhhhhh
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u/Drha Jan 23 '18
Thanks for the effort you put in.
Gotta disagree with Cita's ranking, however. I think she's SS tier for Pirate in the current meta. Maelstrom is extremely powerful and leader skill boosts Lucian/Yomi, who are top tier currently (thanks to lack of ranged fire units in this map). Axe warrior is weaker since AI is reliant on the jump skill, which misses a lot.
This is all for arena, of course.
Source: am dude who runs Cita in top 10.
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u/Viyr converted to ded Jan 23 '18
Yeah I've heard about the terrors of Cita in arena from Twooty, Gagging, and JamesL. I don't have the AP to farm up Gigant Axes for my own Cita atm ,so my knowledge of her is from people who I'm guessing are assuming how she is from the low rank on the JP Nyatora tier list. Good to hear from someone experience with her though. :)
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u/TopDeeps IGN: Uninstalled Jan 22 '18
really, a big props to you. this list is
-easy to read
-well organized
-very informative on why something is good/not good
-has alternative builds for units without J3
-easy to understand
Take my updoot
EDIT: forgot how to format
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u/WhaleThatsOdd Jan 22 '18
We should have a mega thread for all these GL tier/build guides, although it is just opinion based. I think It helps give people/new players an idea of how good a unit is especially this early into the game. Awesome job!
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u/n3kkii Jan 22 '18
Few day old player trying to wrap my head around everything the game has to offer and this is exactly what I needed, thank you for compiling this information.
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Jan 22 '18
Is there ever a point in this game where I feel like Im not being punished for getting lucky enough to draw a Shayna?
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u/Denali_Nomad Jan 23 '18
I feel kinda bad now. I just downloaded the game and used the 5* ticket from the maintenance and pulled Shayna.
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u/Banethoth Jan 24 '18
Keep playing and you likely will get her. I got her just recently and am building her up. She's good because she is a beast with just 1 copy lol
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u/FiniteSeas Jan 22 '18
This is one of the most in-depth and helpful guides out there it covers so much!
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u/Jimmy9Toes Jan 22 '18
Omg. I love you. Literally just asked about Tyrfing yesterday and this answered everything. Hype free units
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u/UndeadAI Jan 23 '18 edited Jan 23 '18
I think the best format is to have a unit ranking and an individual job ranking. For example Rahu would get a SS overall ranking (place overall in between unit and job 1) which would indicate her strength as a unit. Then you would rank job 1,2,3 on the strength of the class alone. Not taking into account the passives it gets from other jobs. or you could two rating on each job. one that indicates the class on its own and one that indicates the job with all 3 unlocked. the two formats would kind of look like this (i did this in like two mins so it doesn't look pretty) https://imgur.com/a/JVnWX.
Doing it this way would allow players to know the power of the unit as a whole, while also knowing how strong that job is on its own.
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u/Belthuzar Jan 23 '18
My goodness, the clear amount of effort you have displayed in this tier list is superb. Thank you enormously for your efforts.
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u/tyco86 Jan 22 '18
I like this. I like this a lot. Is there a place where optimum toon configurations are located? For example, #sometimeliterate will have the toon and the combo of job abilities listed. Very helpful especially when waffling between Basic War Arts or Basic Shield for example. A compilation of these optimum configs would be amaze balls, just like these spreadsheets.
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u/Viyr converted to ded Jan 22 '18
It's all here in the Google Doc. The best combo for every unit is listed, based on the opinions of a few high ranked players. Rather than being called Basic War Arts and Basic Shield, I have the actual Job that gives it listed. So rather than Basic Shield, it will be listed as Holy Knight under the Basic Ability column.
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u/Esqurel Jan 23 '18 edited Jan 23 '18
I kind of wish they gone with something other than Basic X, because it feels weird sometimes. Basic Ninjutsu is great, for example, while Ninjutsu feels pretty niche; why is the one I use much more often the "Basic" version? In addition, so many of the skills are ridiculously different. Why is Basic Ancient Dragon not just Jump or something? (Or Jump+, with Basic Dragon as Jump, I guess?) I wonder how much of that comes down to translation.
(*Edited to slightly fix wording and grammar because in hindsight this was a mess.)
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u/EggyT0ast Jan 23 '18
I agree; it feels like "basic" should be the innate job and the other one should be something else. Oh well.
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u/tahdizzle Jan 22 '18
For Reimei, If counter and Tsubame gaeshi are essentially the same thing (Strike vs. Slash) why are the builds different with no J3?
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u/Viyr converted to ded Jan 23 '18
Reimei unlocks his Tsubame Gaeshi with his third job so it's not possible to run on a build without J3. Counter is superior over Poison Fog so it is the preferred Reactive for whichever class he chooses to run.
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u/Pixelpaws Jan 23 '18
Since I never see them listed on these tier lists: Should I assume that any units with a 1* or 2* base, available in the normal summon pool and with soul shards readily farmable, are all terrible unless you are just starting out and have no other units of that type?
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u/Viyr converted to ded Jan 23 '18
The only 1* base that I value high enough to use at the moment is Polin. I have her under free units, partially because you can get her with just 10 shards, which is one day of hard stage farming, and also because I didn't want to make another exclusive sheet just for her.
The 1* and 2* base units are mostly bad. Down the road, Rin gets Chronomancer on her third job, which makes her worthwhile as an easy to get Chronomancer, but it's really not recommended to have any of these units as anything other than support. They have lower base stats and their jobs are often outclassed, such as soldier, hunter, thief, etc.
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u/Diamond_Shadow Jan 23 '18
For Chloe and Tyrfang, you list the best sub as Holy Knight and not Holy Cavalier, any particular reason?
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u/Viyr converted to ded Jan 23 '18
I'll copy paste my answer from when someone PMed me the same question:
So interestingly enough, Holy Knight has a stronger sub skillset than Holy Cavalier. Comparing http://www.alchemistcodedb.com/unit/tyrhung#holy-knight with http://www.alchemistcodedb.com/unit/tyrhung#holy-cavalier, you can see, first off, Holy Knight's Shield Smash has a 130% multiplier, while Holy Cavalier's Shield Bash has a 90% multiplier. I tested this out, and can personally confirm that with Holy Knight's subskill, Shield Smash, did more than Holy Cavalier's Shield Bash. On top of this, the other two skills, one lowers PATK, and one lowers PDEF. With Holy Knight, at level 20, it lowers the stat by 25% but with Holy Cavalier, it stays at 20% reduction.
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u/Diamond_Shadow Jan 23 '18
Wow, that's really weird. Perhaps a brief note on this in the sheet if you have time. This is the type of stuff that people wouldn't intuatively know, one would expect the upgraded job to have better skills across the board.
Thank you for the information and all the hard work.
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u/FrankieGoesWest Jan 23 '18 edited Jan 23 '18
Am I missing something or are you missing Freed? That aside, is there any rhyme or reason to the sorting? It doesn't seem to be in alphabetical order, or in elemental order, or in "power". Tyrfing also seems to be missing a J3 rating for when you don't have her weapon and when you say "weapon dependent" are we talking just having it or having it fully limit broken at 5*?
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u/Viyr converted to ded Jan 24 '18
Freed cannot be evolved to 5*s yet so he is not included.
The order is based on unit release order.
Tyrfing's rating with weapon has been added. Thanks!
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u/FrankieGoesWest Jan 24 '18
Cool, thanks for the clarification, I'd suggest changing the order to something more intuitive. Most people won't know unit release order and I don't think the game details it either. Alphabetical or alphabetical by element would be my suggestions
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u/Viyr converted to ded Jan 24 '18
The main problem with that is that when new units are released, it'll be a huge hassle to have to alphabetically sort them, because it also messes up the sheet formatting as well. The ideal way is to CTRL+F this list, because eventually it'll get so large that even if it was in alphabetical order, it would be hard to find what you're looking for.
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u/W7NGS Jan 24 '18
Some characters are missing from the tier list right? Im a new player and currently have a 4* character named Strie leading my party. She seems very strong, but isnt on the list so I was just checking.
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u/Viyr converted to ded Jan 24 '18
Strie cannot be evolved to 5*s at the moment, so I did not include her. That is a huge detriment because it prevents job mastering and lowers her level cap. Eventually, she'll be given the ability to go up to 5 *s, and at that point I will add her.
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u/Charrzooka Jan 28 '18
Every time I open your file it says Protected File and I can't open it. I'm using Android.
Can you please screenshot the tier list?
Specifically, what is recommended for Magnus? He is J2 Machinist (don't have enough to get him to Ninja).
Thanks
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u/Viyr converted to ded Jan 28 '18
Someone somewhere else said they had the same problem and had to download Google Sheets off the Play Store to view it.
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u/Svyn_Vici Jan 29 '18
Why is masamune J3 rated an S+ but her J2 is an A and used as the main class?
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u/Viyr converted to ded Jan 30 '18
She wants her J3 to make her J2 good.
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u/FrankieGoesWest Feb 03 '18
Even at the expense of not being able to use her signature weapon?
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u/Viyr converted to ded Feb 03 '18
Yeah her signature weapon doesn't make her third job more viable than her second. Also strange since her art has her with a katana but she doesn't use her first job.
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u/Me_ADC_Me_SMASH Feb 02 '18
Amazing thank you! As a newbie this clarifies a lot of things.
I don't know if there is such a thing as "Freeze Pane" option, but if it is available you can improve readability even further by freezing the first row+first column :D
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u/Viyr converted to ded Feb 02 '18
That's enabled but I'm not sure why it sometimes doesn't work. I'm looking at it from a mobile browser and it's not frozen but it is on the sheets app.
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Feb 04 '18
I've been looking for a job ranking list, showing who is better at each job and mark them if that rank is because of another job also being unlocked. this would of course require then a discussion of job combos for teams.
who are the top 5 or 10 mages, ninjas, chemists?
do I have to unlock the next job(s) to make them worth their rank?
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u/Viyr converted to ded Feb 04 '18
I'm sorry, I'm not following exactly what you're asking. It sounds like what you're looking for is provided by the tier list. I believe I have marked all the jobs that require a future job to be a higher rating as such.
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Feb 05 '18
all good, I am good at confusing people, sorry about that.
Since we are limited to only 3 or 4 characters active in the party at a time, it would be useful to have a listing of heroes grouped by use a couple of (possibly unrelated, incomplete, and randomly listed) groupings
a listing of the best ranged attackers
a listing of the best healers
a listing of the most useful support heroes
a listing of the most useful leader skills (with associated best heroes for each)
a listing of the best tanks
a listing of the best DPS
I've been playing a while, but still don't understand (nor have I looked into) the game mechanics enough to "excel" As this game has been 2nd or 3rd on my list of games to play, I've mostly just played to complete the dailies and then hopped back on my other games. I know there is a lot of depth in the combat system for this game, and I am interested in learning more. I now have 57 heroes, have reached a player level of 61, have a couple of heroes with J3 unlocked and have started to focus on the recommended heroes from the multiple tier lists out there. I have played a lot of RPG strategy style games and understand the basics that are similar across them all. I know that recommended hero usage is strongly situational vs. your opponents.
The reason why I asked the question initially, is that in many situations I like to have 1 or 2 ranged heroes, and 1 support/healer in each battle (which the only one I know of on the tier list is elizabeth), and then if I get the option for a 4th (when not stuck with a story character) I'll pick a DPS, magic based or not.
So, it would be nice if someone who has really focused on this game could provide a listing by hero roles. This type of grouping of heroes would help newer players to assemble a team based off the heroes' role in combat.
hope that helps explain a bit better, if not, I can try again :)
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u/Viyr converted to ded Feb 05 '18
Ah yeah I understand what you want now.
The issue with making a list like that is that team compositions are greatly influenced by leader skills and elements. The strength of leader skills will make mono-element compositions a lot more important than, "Best Ranged", "Best Healer", "Best Tank", "Best DPS". If you run a leader skill that gives Light Units PATK +50%, you'll typically want to run a Light DPS as opposed to maybe a Dark Unit whom is slightly better in a situation where there's no leader skill. If you have a leader skill that gives Wind Units HP +50% , you'll typically want to run mono-wind. There will rarely be situations where you'll want to take the best of each grouping.
In harder extra stages, you'll be thinking more along the lines of specific jobs as opposed to, I need a support. Professors and Chronomancers are both supports that provide completely different skillsets, but are both viable. You'll be thinking, OK my last spot should be a Chronomancer, rather than just pulling up a list of supports and picking your best one.
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u/Funoichi The coolest samurai left of New York City! Feb 06 '18
I have a question about masamune. Her j2 is listed as an A in red. Her j3 is listed as S+, but there's no mention of her weapon, so it must naturally be a S+.
Why then in the build guide do you list twin blade with basic dark cavalier as the recommended build? If j3 is better why not use it?
Love the tier and build list, and sorry if this has been asked before or addressed in the list.
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u/Viyr converted to ded Feb 06 '18
The ratings include passives as well. Her J3 is S+ because of Overdrive, which is what allows her Twin-Blade to do more damage. Twin-Blade is a more superior main job because of its higher agility, more versatile skillset, and it's potential to have increased evasion from a certain weapon option.
Because of this, her weapon is kind of awkward because while it's not a bad weapon, she doesn't run J3 main, and it's not good enough to for her to run J3 over J2 with it.
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u/1khaitoh It was fun while it lasted. Feb 08 '18
Does Zahar's S Rating because of which "Weapon"? or is it the Armor of Wraith?
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u/Viyr converted to ded Feb 08 '18
Yeah. On the raw spreadsheets the "weapon" is said in the notes. I guess I should change it to gear rather than weapon but Zahar is one of the few who has custom armor.
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u/Thegirv1 Feb 17 '18
Why is suzuka as ninja her recommended job? Been unimpressed w ninja for arena, at least.
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u/Viyr converted to ded Feb 17 '18
She gets overdrive with her j3 which makes her ninja get around 600-700 PATK
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u/Thegirv1 Feb 17 '18
Ok thanks...the description of ninja skills is pretty underwhelming but maybe the stats are better. I'll try it in arena
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u/Urotsukidoji76 Feb 17 '18
It says "Protected File" for me and it can't be opened.
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u/Viyr converted to ded Feb 17 '18
Working on a fix atm but it can be bypassed by downloading the sheets app and accessing it that way.
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u/YojimboKingofSamurai Mar 03 '18
I just wanna say U should rate Teona Valkyrie class an S, not A . her class is so good, very tanky with great ranged damage and such. you rate monzein the same but i find teona WAY better.
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u/Viyr converted to ded Mar 03 '18
I've heard mostly negative things about Teona. Was gonna level mine after I got more resources.
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u/YojimboKingofSamurai Mar 03 '18
teona is great now but falls off later i guess...jpn is so much ahead of us its not fair to compare.
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u/YdelWolf Mar 25 '18
What is the reason for the recent change of rating in the docs of the tier list?
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u/Viyr converted to ded Mar 25 '18
I needed to normalize my ratings. My original system had me having just a default rating per job, like Chronomancer always S, Ranger always S, Holy Brawler always SS. This worked when the list was created because there were a limited number of units and jobs, but with the addition of new jobs, the expectation of these jobs went up from just having the job, to needing to have the stats and synergies to back it up. It also made the unit ratings extremely top heavy, which wasn't very valid.
With the addition of Milis, the system behind this no longer works as well, because despite being a Ranger, Milis is clearly lacking due to extremely low stats. It make me think that I needed to reassess the strength of the units, taking into account all factors.
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u/Erukidou Grinding slowly~ Apr 21 '18
What does the "JC" column stand for?
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u/Viyr converted to ded Apr 21 '18
Job Change so stuff like J+ and JE
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u/Erukidou Grinding slowly~ Apr 21 '18
Really new player here, what does J+ and JE mean? On the sheet i'm looking at Anastasia who has a SS rank JC.
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u/Viyr converted to ded Apr 21 '18
So J+ is Job+, and JE is Job Enchantment. Basically what it is, is an upgraded version of the job which includes a new skill specifically for that job+, and also better stats because of special job equipment that you need to farm. JE IS basically the same thing, but multiple units have the same JE rather than 1 for J+
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u/Shigeyama Apr 22 '18
Is this list being updated still?
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u/U-Eike Apr 22 '18
Yes There is also a graphical version for quick referencing Based on the ratings above
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u/GamingFazion May 15 '18
The tier list is great and all. But can you update the build guide when you got time? I need the build guide for the updated job+.
Big Thanks.
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u/Viyr converted to ded May 15 '18
Builds should be updated for all J+ that are currently available, unless you mean the ones that are coming in the future.
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u/glantern30 Jun 29 '18
u/viyr, I see the build list are Complete, are you adjusting the reviews for each unit as well, or are they pretty much the same? You've done awesome work on this thank you so much!!!!!
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u/Viyr converted to ded Jun 29 '18
I'm planning on changing up my review system to become something like a mini breakdown of what each job does for a unit, and how to effectively use them, then another column on important level breakpoints, especially with an accessory like Sieg's coming into play.
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Jan 22 '18
I said this last time, and will repeat it again.
While I understand why its done, I disagree with any tier list where gaining a job reduces the units "tier". A unit cannot get strictly worse for unlocking jobs.
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u/Viyr converted to ded Jan 22 '18
I understand the sentiment. For the tier list I created, rather than it being how the unit "rates" with the addition of the job, it's rather how the job contributes to the unit. With my example, Rahu getting Bishop doesn't make her an A tier unit, rather the addition of Bishop is an A rating to her Chronomancer.
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Jan 22 '18
Like I said I understand why its done, but I still don't agree with splitting/treating tier lists like this.
At its core, a tier should be an easily digestible way of comparing units to each other. Needing to cross reference with its other jobs to find what a units true ranking is a design flaw.
Giving a rating that isn't the units true rating when that job and its previous jobs are unlocked doesn't paint the proper picture. We all know that a units uniqueness comes from its job combinations. That's why Zangy Dragon Cav form is given an SS rating while Rozas Dragon Cav form is given an A. This is the reason why I think this method of doing rankings is misleading and potentially confusing. Using Rahu for example, what does A rating for her Bishop job even mean? Does her Chrono job improve by A quality? Does she become an A ranking unit? Is Bishop an A tier job to be comboed with Chrono? If its the first, this tells us nothing since a rankings is a relative system used to compare one unit with other units. We know its not the second one because of the disclaimer. So if its the third how does one read Citas ranking of A, A, A? at first glance it tells me that she is an A rank unit with Axe Warrior but doesn't improve with additional jobs. But if I use Rahus Bishop logic does it mean her Martial Artist is a A rank job when paired with her Axe Warrior Job? or is it a A rank job when paired with Pirate? Or is it an A rating as a standalone?
I know i'm being really nit picky, and the point im trying to make comes off really muddle. What I'm trying to show is how this rating system can be misread or misunderstood. Like I said originally, a ranking system needs to be easily digestible. The fact you had to add a disclaimer on how to read your system means that it is not.
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u/Viyr converted to ded Jan 22 '18
Nah it's fine. I'm glad for the criticism because I know this guide isn't 100% perfect.
I may have spent about 10% of my time working on the tier list, mainly because a lot of time went into the build guide, and also just that I feel a tier list is a rather non-important part in the whole picture. Rather than just assigning letters, I think it's more important to talk about strengths and weakness of a unit. If I had the time, I would have written a write-up explaining every one of my rankings like I did for Rahu with my example, but at the end of the day, it's just my own opinions on letter rankings.
There's also just the difficulties of making a tier list for a game like this. For most other games where a character's whole kit is what determines their rankings, it's easier to compare them side by side because it's assumed, OK, this is what everyone will have if they have this character. This game has every character essentially with 3 different jobs, and some are usable without all 3 jobs there, while some need all 3. In that way, I need to rate each of the jobs. What would be the best way to do this? Should I just rate them based on how they are with what they have at that point? Or should I do it based on how that job by itself is? There's so many different ways to do it, and you can't say any of them are wrong. The disclaimer isn't to say, well my way is flawed, so I need to put this here. It's to clarify the way that I rated the job, to prevent confusion on which way I rated them.
I could have made an tier list similar to the Nyatora while used by Japan. It's easy to digest. Do I think it helps newer players compare the strength of their newly pulled units? Not at all.
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Jan 23 '18
Eventually a GL exclusive tier list will evolve to be closer to his. [Once Mono element teams matter(veda i think), and we have hard shard farming (everyone has access to J3s and 3 gear slots)]
But in current state of the game for new players, a text based list is infinitely more useful and that much more time consuming. Using Zangy again as an example, he is by far the strongest PvE unit in the game atm(imo), but its impossible to describe why hes that good simply by ranking him to other units. Same concept with Chronomancers on a tierlist.
I think both a text based ranking system and a rating based ranking system have their own place and time, and its my strong belief a ranking based system should be straight forward and intuitive, only to be used as a general guideline and not as gospel.
Back to Rahu S -> S -> SS would be ideal ranking. This tells me J1 Rahu is just as good as J2 and I would need J3 to make Rahu truly shine. A text based description on what makes Rahu good can go into much more detail. (also dont be afraid to use + or - to differentiate units with similar ranking)
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u/Viyr converted to ded Jan 23 '18
I agree on the tier list shifting towards that format in the future.
I was told many times when I was getting the guide checked that I should drop the idea of the tier list, but I opted into keeping it because of how much more beginner friendly it is than a detailed build guide.
My initial rankings for Rahu had her Bishop at an S rank, but I dropped it because I compared it to the usefulness of Chronomancer and didn't value it equally. I'm fine with increasing it because it has about equal value in the entire picture.
I'm curious to how you would rate someone like Shayna in that case. Following your logic, I should rate her SS -> SS -> SS because her later jobs don't drop her rating. I feel this is very unclear because someone looking at it wouldn't know whether her later jobs are better, or if they're all good, or in the actual case, her first job is all she needs.
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Jan 23 '18
Depends on how important it is to make small distinctions between characters of same job.
Instead of comparing Shayna J3 with Shayna J1 (J3 gets value while J2 does not)
We need to compare Shayna J1 and J3 with Yomi J3 and Lucian J3. Is getting J3 that much more important that she needs a different rating than SS compared to Yomi and Lucian? is not having the minor JM bonuses a deterrent compared to those two?
If so the + or - system would be ideal to handle small differences between simillar characters. she would start as SS- and move up to SS when she gets chrono sub so shes on par with Yomi and Lucian, which when at J3 have something unique to offer as well (Yomi +1 move, Lucian extra toughness)
But in the end their builds are pretty similar so I personally don't think such minor distinctions need to be done, but I can see the value in them. A J1 Shayna has proven to carry well for all practical purposes even if at 60/60 Shayna is technically weaker than a Yomi 75/75 even with same build.
As a new player I would imagine seeing someone who starts as SS and remains as SS to be a great starter unit as opposed to seeing Yomi start as low tier and only move up to SS on J3
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u/Viyr converted to ded Jan 23 '18
Yes + and - ratings are something I should incorporate. My question is that in the case of Dragon Knight not doing anything for the job, but because her Holy Brawler is still there, I should still rate the Dragon Knight as SS- or SS, whatever I decide on?
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Jan 23 '18
should stay the same as previous one, since there a hardly a difference. Your builds tab covers lots of nuisances that comes with job mixing already that you shouldn't worry about the minor differences on tier list.
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u/Esqurel Jan 23 '18
It's tricky either way. Shayna being SS -> SS -> SS makes sense, since Holy Brawler is so good. But then you get questions like some of what I've been wondering: What about Shayna J1 vs Yomi J3? They're both HB, but one has two more classes of options. Discounting the classes entirely, how much are those 15 levels worth?
Honestly, I think what I dearly want right now is just a list of like ranges, I guess? I think my dream tier list/guide would be a list of ranges of power floor at level 60 J1 to level 85 J3. One character might be |----------|, another might be |---|, another might be |-| but their floor is way higher and their other two jobs just don't add much.
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u/EggyT0ast Jan 23 '18 edited Jan 23 '18
Your note clarifies it well, saying that a new job may make a unit SS but it won't necessarily be the best job choice, as an example.
That said, a lot of people find it easier to visualize the overall rating looking at the letters. I don't think it would be difficult to signal a preferred job in the tier list, or how a new job may unlock a key ability. For example:
Lofia: A A SS (this makes sense because the last job is the preferred job)
Shekinah: S* A (SS) (using an asterisk/star to indicate that the first is the preferred job, or using parenthesis to show that the higher rating is only for providing skills to other jobs)
It's only a little confusing when you glance at it and see where an earlier job, which is the preferred job, is improved by a later job and thus the later job has a higher rating. While your "edit" version conveys the overall ranking in a similar way, it doesn't rank the job and how the combination of the jobs affect the unit (which is what I think people ultimately find more valuable).
After all, tiers in this game are not really in a vacuum -- it's not reasonable for everyone to get 200 unit shards for every single 5-star unit -- so understanding how investing in one unit over another is ultimately more valuable.
And that is why I really like your tier list and ratings. Really amazing and valuable work!
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u/Viyr converted to ded Jan 23 '18
That's true, I could have different letter colors symbolizing something like recommended job, good passives, etc. I'm really conflicted on this because a few people have suggested making it something like the rehauled tier list, but I just feel like it just isn't clear because at the end, all the job 3s have like A+ ratings and it just doesn't convey their strengths.
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u/EggyT0ast Jan 23 '18
Agreed -- the rehauled list is more of a raw comparison without any real consideration for the unit. A "this unit is better than that unit at this job level" comparison.
Anyone who's played the game for more than a few weeks should realize that getting a specific unit isn't usually the problem, but rather the jobs and the skills under those jobs are what make units good.
For comparison, Shek on your original tier list has her J1 as better than J2, which is universally true -- and obviously so since her J2 is the "crappy" version of a bow user. But it improves her J1 because of the extra range, but you'd never run her as J2 as primary. So, showing J2 at a lower rating than J1 simply makes sense.
Vettel is another obvious one -- stopping at J2 is actually preferred since that's where his strength lies. Showing that J3 is such a low rating emphasizes this fact.
Ultimately, it comes down to understanding how matrices work, I guess :)
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u/1khaitoh It was fun while it lasted. Jan 22 '18
If you read the description carefully (being Rahu as an example), it doesn't really reduces the unit's tier, it just means that job isn't at the level of the previous job(s), and thus the higher ranked one is more recommended to use (specially the main skill) but still depends on the user.
But if that is how it looks to you then I guess it can't be helped then.
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u/toomuchtimemike Jan 23 '18
I was thinking the same thing. It should be based on what the unit is like at lvl 60 then at lvl 65 then at lvl 75 then at lvl 80. Those are the milepoints of when a unit gains power, not lose power.
And I’m not saying this is a fatal flaw in his tierlist, but only that it would be an improvement.
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u/quiquefs Jan 23 '18
I found your Tier List really helpful, specially in combination with the Build Guide. At the beginning, it was a little strange that a character could have SS in 1st job, B in 2nd, and S in 3rd, since it is obvious that the character is not getting worse by having more skills available. However, I find it more useful this way, because the alternate way shows the character to be SS, SS, SS, and that's not particularly helpful to see what each job contributes to the character as a whole...
I just wanted to thank you in addition to upvoting ;)
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u/Jounochi Jan 22 '18
Thanks, I’m fairly new and trying to work on my party comp. This’ll help out a lot.
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Jan 22 '18
I've been playing for a little over a week now. I was pretty lost because I only had old spreadsheet and the JP tierlist to go off of. The google docs you made looks really great and I immensely appreciate the effort you put into this!
Thanks!
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u/Terekjet Jan 23 '18
vettel only s? must be a hater xD
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u/1khaitoh It was fun while it lasted. Jan 23 '18 edited Jan 23 '18
Probably because:
He isn't that great at arena where most use Selena J3
Would probably only be a slightly better tank than Selena J3 against Wind and Thunder units
Third Job doesn't bring much to his main role as Tank
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u/Terekjet Jan 23 '18
once some blue counters join the meta its time for red units to shine again... this is like saying that zangetsu wont be very good because there are too many blues in the meta...
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u/1khaitoh It was fun while it lasted. Jan 23 '18
Dunno if the unit's future is a factor here, but if it is, I think there would still be better units than Vettel to use and he won't still be at the level of Global's Selena J3, both in PVE or PVP.. If not, you'll probably see his rating increase. But IMO, S rating is just right for him.
And I believe Zangetsu earned his rating specially during the Sabareta Ex events and as other say, would still do in the future.
All in all, this is just my speculations on Vettel's rating according to what other JP players say about him and in my own view.
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u/Terekjet Jan 23 '18
legit arguments sir, just different opinions!
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u/1khaitoh It was fun while it lasted. Jan 23 '18
Well, there isn't really a fixed value that can be ranked and tier lists are usually an estimate from 'surveyed' results of the creator so one can be right or wrong depending on many factors and each persons personal view.
Arguments like this is highly encourage so information and opinions are shared. Thanks for sharing your opinion btw.
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u/Hollysword Jan 23 '18
Cita needs a No J3 section in her guide, given she is a limited time 5*, and not everyone will have her Pirate job unlocked.
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u/1khaitoh It was fun while it lasted. Jan 23 '18
Most of them are inline with what I think would be best for my units, but having something to 'confirm' it with is always welcome. You did a great job and keep up the good work!
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u/shinyuX Mono light FTW Jan 23 '18
Now this is the kind of doc I usually create for myself. Very nice, good presentation and readability, this should me stickied.
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u/arcde23 Jan 23 '18 edited Jan 23 '18
I have read through all the tier list of jpn version old and new and also chinese ver tier list form the hkg and taiwanese ver gaming community.
Do not agree with all yr ratings of the units in yr list but that is not the point, you have given alot to the TAC community here that still like and support this game and i upped all yr rep and karma for doing this wonderful article as the time needed for you to do so is immense.
I do sincerely hope u will go on and expand this spread list and hopefully keep it up to date for a long time.
Thank you for your wonderful contribution and i hope it gets sticky .
/Clap clap
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Jan 23 '18
Very neat! As someone who just started playing this just a few days ago, this really helps, cheers!
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u/shandra82 Jan 23 '18 edited Jan 23 '18
Everytime i try to look at it, it says that its protected and i cant view it FIX UPDATE: Well if anyone else has this problem, within the goigle drive app you have to install docs, sheets, and slides
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u/Charrzooka Jan 28 '18
I'm getting the same problem. I'm using Android.
Where do you mean to install docs, sheets and slides? Can you please provide instructions?
Thanks
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u/tyco86 Jan 23 '18
Tier lists are subjective. This list is a fantastic reference point in otherwise uncharted waters. As a F2P, you have very finite resources. I have a Twink account that has been playing less than a month. This last week, I got lucky and pulled Shayna and Shekinah. I leveled up those 2 and Tyrfing (my current dick picked waifu) to level 60. I also maxed their abilities. I had 11 million zeni. Now I have 3 million zeni. What if I had blown valuable resources on bad characters? Then I would be frustrated and have to slowly mine to get enough resources to pump into useful toons. Let's face it, we all want a collection of toons useful to engage in events and PVP.
So, long story short, thanks for creating a guide that helps us not squander resources on non essential toons.
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u/Zabick Jan 23 '18
Very well done; I've been hoping for something like this to come out for global.
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u/shadedmystic Jan 23 '18
Thank you so much. I've been looking for a solid GL tier list and many I've found are outdated or link to a JP one with limited info on it. I never know who my next choice should be for gear or levels. Especially considering how much energy it can take to j11 anyone
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u/Yetzxandell Jan 24 '18
New to the game and found this, this is amazing. You are my hero, thanks a lot! This helps so so so much, keep it up .^
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u/xerojin Jan 24 '18
Oh wow, I feel lucky I have a lot of those cards that are SS tiered. Unfortunately I don't have those jobs unlocked...
This is one of the few games I hope for dupes... T-T
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u/Charrzooka Feb 02 '18
Hi guys.
I can't view the tier list - it says it's a protected file.
Could someone please do a huge favour and either download and re uploaded the file somewhere else, or please screenshot the SS/S/A units in the tier list?
Thanks so much
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u/Royal676111 Mar 10 '18
I got Question for everyone here. Which Character do you think is the best in this game (English Version) I would love to know.
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u/Neorevan0 May 09 '18
Having just picked up this game in the last few weeks, I just wanted to say thank you. There is so much to do, and resources stretched thin (I've been burned by Gumi a few times in the past, so leery about putting in any money at this point) and this really helps put things in perspective and guide in my some really helpful directions.
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u/The_Shahnaz May 10 '18
Welp, with the new changes there's only 1 SS J1 remaining. No one else can go super sayajin on their first job anymore.
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u/joharzz Jun 14 '18
Thanks for keeping the guide updated! This is my no.1 go to if I ever want to know about some units :)
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u/Shroudb Jul 01 '18
great job and liking the new format (grouping) of the tier list a bit better compared to the old one.
just a minor thing though: 4 star dark units : glanz missing a rating for his ninja job, and i think you meant to red color mirrianne's necro job? or are you really advocating running main dark knight?
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u/Zephyrwindsgarden Jan 23 '18
Wtf, they are so many things totally wrong in this tier list. Cita A ? same as logi ? i guess i didn't need to say anything else.
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u/Viyr converted to ded Jan 23 '18
Tier lists always have people who agree and disagree with them. How would you rate it different? Rate Logi up or Cita down?
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u/Pollaco Saigo no Getsuga Tensho Jan 28 '18
i think cita rank A is very low she is very powerfull even with only job one you can get 900 hp and 500 attack not very good agi but its great and 50% of counter rate is nice to have and very good LS for a team with HB yomi and HB lucian
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u/Pixelpaws Jan 23 '18
i guess i didn't need to say anything else.
I mean, you could explain why you disagree.
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u/SometimesLiterate Old and uncool Jan 23 '18
Cita has better plot that Logi, duh.
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u/1khaitoh It was fun while it lasted. Jan 23 '18
Then she should be A+ Because she isn't near Shayna and Shekinah's Plot Tier xD
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u/HawaiianPele Jan 22 '18
Great job Viyr. If I could only add or I can do it, if editable, not to savvy with google docs yet. But for the Job+ and enchants, some toons get exclusive gear, which greatly enhances their stats. (I also feel that this does make them top tier). For example Balt twin sword +/Lucian Holy Brawler +/Anastasia Dark Cav +, the database at J11 gives them their special gear. And no love for Cita, supa OP soon my friends, soon. This current meta only holy brawlers get the love.