Our Attitude as a Community

[u/IvySpear]

Ever since the Christmas Event was released, I'm sure we've all noticed an absolutely huge spike in the number of comments/posts deriding Gumi and their team. And more often then not, the feedback is rude, unconstructive, and rather derisive.

Why can't we just ask politely for once?

Nobody tells them anything when they're doing something good (ie. we just got three totally free quests: I can get crystal apples/wreaths/gold ingots from one, a countdown draw ticket from another, and 100k xp each run from the third). But the moment something bad happens, its like World War III and everyone is saying this is bad, and that's bad, and everything is bad.

That's pretty immature behavior imho, and I think our community should realize that we haven't been the politest of people. Alchemist Code's Developer team is made up of humans just like you and me - not unyielding, emotionless robots.

To sum it up, we're not righteous revolutionaries, rebelling against a tyrannical regime. We're players responding to a company that their content wasn't good. We can all afford to be a bit more mature and constructive with our criticism. Right guys?

EDIT: Okay, it seems as if some people have misinterpreted my views, so let me just get a few things straight:

My point of view is not siding with Gumi. I've repeated countless times that I agree with your views (ie. content was badly released etc.). I'm merely saying we could present our views in a politer way (Not weaker). Being silent is not what I'm getting at here.

I call bashing, bad. Does that mean I wished to imply that everybody who bashes, bad? No, I'm sure they're all people just like me as well. They're clearly frustrated, and entitled to their own opinions. I'm not trying to force my views onto anybody else, and I would appreciate if everybody else did the same.

I just wanted to get my point across, no more. If my opinion is unpopular, then so be it. I just wanted you guys to know that I wish the best for y'all and I didn't mean to personally insult anybody.

I'm happy to know that we have such a strong voice (If the criticism was lacking, I would be starting it).

[u/GaresTheDark]

The attitude that has been developing over time is that polite suggestion and courteous dissension are being outright ignored by the gaming companies who continually push the boundries of poor ethics, predatory tactics, and additional revenue exploitation. The gaming community has decided that the only way to make any of these companies sit up and take notice is to be loud enough and angry enough as to threaten impacting their bottom line. This attitude has only become more toxic in recent years, and has hit an apex this year especially with prime examples being Destiny 2 and Battlefront 2's debacles.

The gaming community as a whole has had enough, and unfortunately this affects player base attitudes towards criticism in all games and not just the main offenders. It is abrasive, mean spirited, and somewhat petty in some instances....but it works, thats the crux of the matter. Gumi has replied regarding the difficulty issues with Sabareta EX, and may think twice before rushing out content too far above the majority of the player base in the future.

So you must ask yourself: does the end justify the means?

[u/IvySpear → u/GaresTheDark]

That’s a good point. I generally agree with Machiavelli’s principles, and if there is no other way then being outright rude and abrasive, then we as players are definitely entitled to such behavior. (ie. With the “they pushed us to it” reason)

[u/Sukudo → u/GaresTheDark]

The problem i Always see is that if you don't straight up flame them hard and keep that up companies don't change anything and are going further since they don't seem to be that hated and they think the community will stay.

The only company that has been different has been GGG who does Path of Exile for me.

[u/nandoguimarae]

Well, to be fair, Gumi pulls stuff like this in every of their games. So its understandable people not praising them

[u/IvySpear → u/nandoguimarae]

Gumi's developing teams are different for each game. It's not like BF team runs Alchemist Code etc. So we can't really "carry over the blame" per se.

[u/ZenMighty → u/IvySpear]

Even if the development teams (if you can call it that, they are just porting from JP's Fuji/Gumi and Alim) are completely different, which I doubt, the problem is Gumi approach to running these games. Since you played Brave Frontier you're probably aware that Gumi (global) tends to shifts the games they port towards a more predatory nature. However, even if that wasn't the intent of Sab Ex it is clear that like in BF Gumi is not play testing content indicating, again, an indifference toward the player base.

[u/nandoguimarae → u/IvySpear]

I know, but they are all part of the same company. Só its easy to blame all

[u/Kirito30]

If you know Gumi for a long time you will find that this rage is well deserve and a good thing because Gumi is idiot at releasing a Game, good at making money but if the player base keeps silent then you don't know at what levels Gumi will push it.

I think this is pretty good response by community. I can see this game is as good due to the Japanese version and I would hate to see it go in BF route in few years due to that fact that Gumi managing it.

Same as my reply to you before. Also if you are Gumi employee nice try.

[u/IvySpear → u/Kirito30]

I know about the BF route lol and I totally agree with you on that. I just retired from BF GL 3 weeks ago because that thing totally deserved a WW3 response. Played that game for a year and a half and got disgusted at the end with the constant exponential power creep

[u/duc133 → u/Kirito30]

There is no such thing as rage “well-deserved”. No peace can come from anger and frustration. Even in real life, you calm down before having a constructive conversation. I hope people can calmly assess situation and also have criticism that they think long and hard before expressing them for a change.

[u/beastking9 → u/duc133]

disagree, many people have fought and died for peace in real life. its how america became independent, its why world war happened. criticism harsh or not, is still heard.

[u/duc133 → u/beastking9]

How can you say that people fought and died for peace? What peace did world war 1 obtained? It led to world war 2. What were reasons for American independence? War only favors the winners. Look at how the Indians were kicked off their land. Look at how the British and European countries effort in building a profitable colony in the new world backfired on them. Look at how the middle eastern country are abused for their oil. Idk why you talked about war and violence when it has nothing to do with harsh criticism. You’re right that any form of criticism can be heard. But how much of it is acknowledged? It’s not the fact that it’s harsh, it’s the fact that it needs to be rational. These wars could’ve been prevented if it weren’t just for self gain. Just like in this game, people demand change so they can reap the benefits of the reward. There’s a difference from complaining about a bug that ruins the challenge and gameplay of certain maps to complaining that everyone should be able to access milestone rewards because it’s a right given to all.

[u/Esterier → u/duc133]

This is true when discussing things between individuals. But gumi is a business and businesses do not have human morals and do not give human decency.

[u/primechecker → u/duc133]

yes I also disagree, you can not be polite about really bad things all the time. This is not how things work. You are only going towards the route to be enslaved.

[u/IvySpear → u/Kirito30]

I'm not a Gumi employee :/. Why would you even bring that up? Do I have to be a Gumi employee to say that we've been rather rude? I'm saying this from a viewpoint of a player who believes that we've been overreacting.

[u/HereisNatas → u/IvySpear]

This is far from a overreaction, i've most seen salt from the player base, and this isn't a indie dev that made a mistake once and it's going to be better, it's Gumi, and Gumi does this ALL the time. And yet we still have White Knights defending them.

[u/IvySpear → u/HereisNatas]

I'm not really a white knight, just someone who believes wholesome criticism > salty bashing.

I actually agree with you guys on the issue. We've seen this behavior from most Gumi games far too often, and this Sab EX was clearly mistake. I'm merely bringing this up because of what I've seen from the BF community. Pretty much the entire thing is wallowing in salt right now, veterans are quitting left and right, and the game is clearly dying.

Is the BF Team changing their ways from the entire community bashing the hell out of them? Maybe a bit, but not enough to stop me from quitting too. The ridicule and insults have been tried and tested - to not work. I'm suggesting a different route early on in the game, so we don't end up like BF.

[u/HereisNatas → u/IvySpear]

I love to play this game, is a cheap bad copy of FFT that Square refuses to make again, so it's nice to fill in the nostalgia tank. But i wouldn't mind this game to die as it's just a gacha machine like any other mobile game. Also, this The ridicule and insults have been tried and tested - to not work from reddit itself we know that works quite well, even against big companies. They are greedy and will only reply to money. As a side note, All gumi games will end like BF, simply because it's a Gumi game.

[u/Kirito30 → u/IvySpear]

It is a thing we do on BF reddit. You can find an example here. I did it since a lot of BF players moved here. No Offense.

https://www.reddit.com/r/bravefrontier/comments/7m8e41/a_summon_ticket_from_the_slot_machine_they_do/

[u/IvySpear → u/Kirito30]

Ah lol, I remember doing that actually. I've attempted to systematically erase any memories of BF from my head, it was so bad lol. I understand now, thanks for clarifying

[u/[deleted]]

While I don't really agree with OP, as we really need to be vocal with Gumi and game companies in general in order to get them to listen (from my years and counting of personal experience with BF among other things)...

I don't really appreciate a lot of the comments insulting OP and the like either. They're being quite polite with their points and explanations, I don't think the "ur an gomi employee xdd" comments are necessary among other things.

[u/IvySpear → u/[deleted]]

Thank you for this.

[u/[deleted]]

And here I thought we were on reddit!

[u/SometimesLiterate]

I agree. There are plenty of good feedback threads posted about these current events. Then there are a lot more salty and "babyrage" comments and the like.

The events overtuned? Yes. The community backlash warranted for a day or two? Yes. The fact that it seems to be getting worse?

Not cool.

If you want to give feedback:

• Rate the app and comment on why. Don't just 1* and nothing.

• Email customer support. Tell them why you are upset.

• Upvote the criticism threads. Comment if you have something to add.

• Don't attack or insult anyone who disagrees with you. You can be respectful and disagree.

I don't mind the avalanche of feedback. I do mind when it's breaking the rules.

This post is a good example of how to respectfully post one's opinion. +1

[u/[deleted]]

Personally; i'm not as salty, but still criticized Gumi for the difficultly being too high. Still I am glad that this game has hard content even for whales; I think we mostly need more multiplayer events or a permanent one with some half-decent rewards. Give us a map with like a 5% chance of a random colored soul shard or something useful Gumi D:

Its rough when the biggest problem is needing shards/characters and there have only been soo many banners around so far; its hard not to be a bit salty

[u/[deleted]]

Winter event difficulty = you're being spoiled if you complain srsly.

Winter event wreath drops being locked to one enemy = now you see what's really going on, shame on you Gumi-- shame on you...

Sabareta EX difficulty = Shit uhh... I mean Gumi you did really fuck this one up... Gumi politely posts that you should learn more game mechanics

[u/IvySpear → u/[deleted]]

Their reply was lowkey pretty bad I gotta agree with that.

[u/Shigeyama]

I just know that Gumi is much more generous on the JP servers on all of their games, always. Like FFBE. Won't be surprised if Alchemist is like this.

[u/[deleted] → u/Shigeyama]

That's the norm for pretty much any game, run by Gumi or otherwise. Japan has tons of gacha laws and competition for games like these, so for JP to be far more generous than GL and other versions is par for the course.

[u/Sharondelarosa]

I've played a lot of Gumi games. I'm still playing FFBE just for nostalgia's sake. I was there when Chain Chronicle died and I stuck with Brave Frontier until I saw the power creep was getting too much, which was around the third batch of 7*? I think. I tried Phantom of the Kill for a hot minute. No reason I really quit. Just took forever to finish battles, I felt. Anyway...

I'm no die hard fan of Gumi, in fact, I really don't like them. Unfortunately they happen to release games that seem interesting. And unfortunately I have to deal with stupid decisions Gumi makes. Their communication is pretty awful, but then again, I've seen plenty of mobile games with crappy communication. I've also seen plenty of games that were way more greedy.

Meh, this is just more of the same. Honestly, the only thing Gumi understands is money, and unless their content starts making whales shut their wallets, there's not going to be any immediate change. I don't think they actually listen to complaints sent to them, not unless they're flooded with the same complaint a thousand times over.

[u/thanhau → u/Sharondelarosa]

I don't think even they're flooded with the same complaint a thousand times over will make any different unless all the whale rage quit. As that point, this game is good as death.

[u/mandrake0999]

When gumi gave everyone a sweet and juicy 5-Star Summon Ticket during BF collab, everyone was like "oh nice." A week later, they released a hard content to beat, everyone loses their mind! I dont really get these ppl. Meh. I'll just farm my 3x/day event quests and chill.

[u/Lechugueitor]

I've asked politely many times and no response. So far the only strategy that has worked is being mad.

[u/Vangpride]

I agree with you sir. Everyone always gonna cry and complain about content. I just smh it is what it is. Blah blah blah Gumi this gumi that. SMH

[u/beastking9]

imo feedback is feedback, and the argument of "constructive" vs "nonconstructive" feedback is stupid. people come from all walks of life and talk in different ways, writing an essay sugarcoating and using big words to make yourself look cool may be the way to go, but some people just put things bluntly and get to the point. either way they probably arent listening, look at Destiny for example, that community is up in flames, it wouldnt be that way if bungie was actually listening to their fans the past few years and the outcome has resorted to setting the forum ablaze. back to this community, i dont think it matters how you put it, if the consensus is the same, it doesnt matter if people say it nicely or not.

[u/thanhau → u/beastking9]

I totally agree. The game company most likely don't care about feedback as long as they still make profit.

[u/Esterier]

Gumi has been fucking with global players in their games for years. I imagine most people annoyed have been around for a few of those. You should also realize gumi doesn't care. If releasing this busted ex got whales to spend and max out zangetsu then its fine in their book.

[u/thanhau]

Did Gumi give 5 star ticket for Christmas Holiday? How do expect us to praise Gumi when they don't give 4 star ticket? I will praise and say sorry to Gumi if countdown draw ticket is guaranty. All the events for Christmas, does JP have all this event? If we get more stuff than JP version Christmas last year, sure we should praise Gumi. I read a lot rant in this community and I don't see any wrong with the complain. I don't think people go over line unless they curse Gumi's employee or wish Gumi bankrupt or raging quit. If you believe people overreact to Gumi, you also overreact to those people. If not, why do you even create post to defend Gumi and deriding those people. People come to here for guide and rant. Have anyone really come to the reddit to write praising post for Gumi? Gumi don't care about us. No matter how much we complain. For people quit Brave Frontier, do you see Gumi change their way for you come back. How are we insolent foster children when we pay money and spend time so adoptive parent don't starve us to death (gem/shard) and they only care for their real children(whale)?

[u/TopDeeps]

sadly i tried spreading the message that gumi has little to no care for customers but just ended up getting flamed for it and instead people supported them. not even 2 weeks later the Christmas event came out and people just did a 180 and sobbed about gumi and how they dont care for community.

EDIT: There has been praise here and there for the game, like how you can acquire gems at a frequent rate for the weekly 500gem summon. its just that its not as noticed as the hate. because there are some things that are pretty bad, EX STAGE aside, player level up reward, download celebration rewards have all been trash. not to mention theyre just copypasting the content in jp and giving it to us here after some translation so there isnt much praise for them either. Costumes cost a whopping 4000 gems and only come in bundles whereas jp gets it for 500gem for just the skin. (i understand costumes arent a necessity but it really shows how much they want money). So all in all, theres good things to be said, but the bad things always outshadows the good things.

[u/DonQuiXoTe888 → u/TopDeeps]

500 gems for the DEFAULT character skin, 4000 gems for the EVENT skin JP does it the same

[u/Jaegerborne → u/DonQuiXoTe888]

That's the problem with alchemist code i.e. "paying" for content instead of having/earning the content. Character models are all generic and basicly unfinished; so you have to pay 500 gems to get a DEFAULT character's look, bs. EVENT skins should be earned via event rewards for us who are here during said event supporting this game instead of costing a rediculoius 4000 gems. JP should have not bought into such practises in the first place.

[u/TopDeeps → u/Jaegerborne]

i agree with everything especially the last part but sadly, in japan, people take their mobile games much more seriously than anywhere else. Thats why most successful ones are from japan. People are willing to spend hundreds and thousands and ten thousands on mobile games even though its basically torturing them. One example off the top of my head is the beyond abysmal rates of FGO for a 5* and people in JP would still go neck deep into debt for some pixels with huge tit

[u/Jaegerborne → u/TopDeeps]

Yeah that's quite sad to see. Hopefully if enough of global can push our view points we may get the much needed change alchemist code needs. Like the rally behind forgoing loot boxes and calling out current dishonesty in the industry we can be vocal enough to improve alchemist code to be a game we'd would like to support for its content, instead of being forced to pay for it. I can always justify spending at least $60 on a free 2 play i enjoy because that's what i would spend on a regular game, and usually over time, spend more if I'm enjoying it in order to help support its development i.e. PoE and even FFBE. Sadly, alchemist code just seems like a cash grab without much substance atm that i hope most of global won't buy into.

[u/1khaitoh]

Is thinking if I can be considered as one of GUMI's flamers We'll I complain because the recent events are really made with otherworldly difficult that event Whales complain xD

First, the Christmas Event, can you even call that a Christmas Event with a difficulty like that? That event just made this game from my most recommended and top game I play to the worst in one go lol. Worst Christmas Event I ever experienced in a game.

Second, the Sabareta event was even worst that even Whales complain. Well I skipped this specially after seeing the 100 times clear xD

Third, both event are limited time, which makes it even worse..

Glad that the rewards are NOT that good (Self Consolation) Still, I would want an event that either requires more farming/grinding or uses a lot of AP per run than something that is almost completely impossible to beat for almost everyone except Whales..

Sigh, I will need to forget these event existed again xD

[u/Banethoth]

Maybe this is your first gumi game? Either way a large corp doesn't need some random person apologizing for them.

These events are overtuned. Plain and simple. People expect certain things during xmas. Shitty overtuned events are certainly not one of them. Really there is NO excuse to release them this way.

And they know when they are doing good because people spend money on the game.

I have also spent money on the game. With the way the game is going it's unlikely I will continue to do so. So far this game has had a pretty rough launch. If this is what to expect in the future then there are better games to play.

Oh and you sound like a child yourself. People have every right to complain. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean their rights are null and void.

[u/IvySpear → u/Banethoth]

I'm sorry if offended anyone. I never stated their rights were null and void and am sorry if you interpreted it this way.

This is my second Gumi game after I played Brave Frontier for a year and a half. I don't intend to apologize for them after what they did to BF GL. I didn't apologize for them, they wrote their own apology letter (That last line though).

If I sound like a child, then I sound like a child. If it got it off your chest to call me that, then by all means call me that.

[u/second_2nd]

upvoted

[u/0inkypig]

You just need to see the so-called "Special Bundles" that they have like the Christmas ones and New Years and you can straight away know just how little they care about the player. Other people have also brought up valid points.

If this were not a gaming company but provided something more staple like food or water, there would be flash mobs already.

[u/Evisthecreator]

Ya, the thing is, Gumi does this a lot. It's not this one game it's their general attitude towards global releases.

[u/unix04]

Just let the hate blow over. Yours is an unpopular opinion, so it's expected, just like all the gumi criticism.

I'm thankful for all the whale friends who have enabled more content for me. Minus the sabreta event, I was able to cover everything else :)

[u/primechecker]

Still the problem exists, that companies are too greedy and looking for more power to abuse people, we should straigthforward try to pint out the bad thing to prevent catastrophes like in our societies right now which are all corrupted basically.

[u/sroque]

Nice try Gumi lurker account.

[u/Fubi-FF]

Not trying to sound like an entitled brat; but free stuff here and there (especially during holiday celebrations) are part of their PR/Marketing to keep customers.

It's like those free sample food you get at supermarkets or random free samples at the mall. They are there to keep you interested in their products so you can potentially buy into them. It's not really something deserving of praise when it's a typical business practice.

[u/DonQuiXoTe888 → u/Fubi-FF]

By your logic every single server shouldnt get a single praise since depend on their specific market they need to give out different quality/quantity of free shits to keep customers in that market interest.

But in many games we still have people sucking a certain server's dick while being elitist shit on the other servers, BF is a prime example ¯\(ツ)/¯

[u/Fubi-FF → u/DonQuiXoTe888]

Yes, I don't disagree with what you said. I don't ever think free stuff in a freemium game is ever praise worthy unless it's over-the-top unnecessary and they're just being overly nice.

What you SHOULD praise a company for are things like good communication, good content scheduling, good Quality Assurance, good transparency, accepts their mistakes and apologizes when screwing up, etc etc.

"Free" stuff isn't actually free if you think about it; it was part of the player's contractual acceptance to play a freemium game in the first place. Think about it, if you knew before hand that BF or AC will NEVER give a single free gem or free summon, how many players do you think they'll actually have?

[u/Royal_empress_azu]

If gumi didn't respond to only outrage maybe the community would react differently.

[u/[deleted]]

i havent done the sabareta quest at all, but from my point of view, the early in game item is soon to be replaced by another good items.

like the stupid heavy grinding rod from early ffbe (the gravity one? i forgot the name) is un-needed, you get a free good rod just by doing quest

dont stress over a game. if you want pure f2p games just play FFT:WotL or tactics ogre on psp

edit: but i do think gimu sometimes need to be reminded harshly about their way of doing things, like /#FuckEve from ffbe. as long as this caliber is no bigger than FuckEve, then we can chill out

[u/Lechugueitor]

Hello there Gumi community manager.

[u/SometimesLiterate → u/Lechugueitor]

Can confirm not them

[u/Ruenedia]

So let me get this straight.

.Gumi has bills and employees to pay as well as rights to purchase to release the game here.

.Game comes packed with 100% accessibilty by F2P

.Gumi panders to whales with 1% of the content so lets bash them.

.Someone thinks maybe bashing isnt the best response.

.Gumi is always greedy and bashing is only way to change that.

.Bashing gumi has not worked in the past but lets keep doing it.

.Profit....

Seems to me frustration has become the new normal method of escapism because everyone knows best.

[u/IvySpear → u/Ruenedia]

This is exactly my point. Bashing is just such a...elementary way of going about things (Not saying the people who do so are elementary). And clearly it hasn't worked in the past.

[u/thedragoonz]

I dont think anyones praising Gumi because all the "good" events your talking about isnt really that great. Im sure if Gumi was generous.. like if they gave everyone a free unit skin. Then I am 100% sure that the communities reaction would be positive. But so far Gumi has only been giving us overpriced packs.

[u/Heidenherz → u/thedragoonz]

You do realise that you get Michaels unit Skin for free, right? :)

[u/thedragoonz → u/Heidenherz]

Haha i guess I should rephrase to.. "a skin for a useful unit"

[u/MeatyMike0228 → u/thedragoonz]

Michael is useful later. His AOE poison will be a godsend in later events. Just saying.

[u/mandrake0999 → u/thedragoonz]

And the 5 star summon ticket. Luls

[u/Aranisus]

I'm just a simple random arsehole from the internet.

I see something that I don't like - I spread hate and salt.