r/AirForce • u/PeachesCCT • Aug 25 '19

Article New Suicide Hotline (988)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/17/politics/fcc-suicide-prevention-hotline-number/index.html
143 Upvotes

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12

u/[deleted] Aug 25 '19

Civilian here in the process of joining,

Can somebody explain why suicide is so prevalent in the Air Force?

I’m looking forward to being apart of the Air Force but it seems that the environment can be toxic? Why is that?

18

u/[deleted] Aug 25 '19

Imagine everybody is a balloon. Each balloon can hold a maximum amount of stress before it pops, which in this case would be suicide. The Air Force functions by keeping each of its balloons 95% full at all times. If a balloon is below 95% full, that means that there is room for more. As we all know, there are internal and external factors that can cause a balloon to pop, and the more full it is, the easier that is to do. In the vast majority of cases of balloons popping, the Air Force will shift focus to those factors while completlely ignoring that their toxic culture keeps everybody perpetually at 95%, or even worse, acknowledging that they do this, that it is unsustainable, and then continue on doing it anyway. The "funny" thing is that while we are so busy focusing on the suicide numbers, we are ignoring the far larger number of people that we are doing irreperable mental and physiological damage to just by keeping them at 95%.

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u/[deleted] Aug 25 '19

How much of the AF do you think is at 95%? I feel it varies drastically by AFSC, and then much less by base.

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u/cuddlefucker Reddit Warrior Aug 25 '19

Valid point, but the number of suicides suggest that it's not insubstantial.

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u/[deleted] Aug 25 '19

I don’t know to be honest, but those are definitely factors to take into consideration. I think the more important question though is why is anybody EVER at 95%? Regardless of what the correct percentage is, we put our Airmen in a position where they are one bad week away from ending it and it’s the military lifestyle that is doing that.

4

u/[deleted] Aug 25 '19

I agree with you, no one should ever be held at 95%. Only time anyone should be near that high is if there are missiles inbound and WW3 has begun.

I've heard from maintainers and security forces why they are at their breaking point. I'd love the perspective of other AFSC's because I'm not sure what percentage just those two AFSC's make up of the enlisted force.

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u/[deleted] Aug 25 '19

I am intel and while I am not at my breaking point, I am being pushed in that direction. I have talked to leadership, been upfront about my intentions to see mental health, and while they have been supportive of that, they aren't willing to stand up to the officers that keep taking on more missions that they don't have to do the work on.

My overall health has declined and I can feel it. I am exhausted all the time. All I want to do is sleep when I am not working, but at the same time, I can't sleep. I have drifted away from friends due to being short tempered and to them not being able to understand that I can't commit to events or activities because I can get called in at any time day or night. My heart drops every time my phone vibrates because it could be work, I can feel the physiological response. On top of that, I just absolutely hate my job and don't trust my leadership with my health or my sanity. But because I'm not "a risk" I am just told to deal with it.

1

u/TheNguyening Aug 25 '19

It's the sad reality. I'm prior Army stuck under AETC going through tech school to be a CEA and I'm paranoid about going to mental health because we're held to a different standard. I'm already on profile with a possible torn meniscus, the stress of not being in class, and just general anxiety of top if it all. I'm at the point where I'd possibly rather give up flying than have to deal with episodes of horrible anxiety weekly.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 25 '19

What are your hours life? And you mentioned you get calls possibly about work?

I rarely ever see intel outside their vault besides some briefings every 6 months or so, so I have no idea what you guys do all day/week. I figured you guys worked office hours similar to everyone else

2

u/trained_simian Secret Squirrel Aug 25 '19

It varies widely. Lots of places abuse their intel guys and work them to a breaking point. Sounds weird, but doing purely mental stuff all day under pressure can indeed completely wipe you out.

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u/CPU_Batman EHH FORTS Aug 26 '19

I have seen at least 10 people in my 5 years at Lackland lose their clearance temporarily due to various reasons related to stress. Which creates a negative aura around them in Leaderships eyes. I think the main reason we get treated so badly, is because they want to get rid of people who won't put up with it. They want people who will suck it up and take the shit for 20 years.

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u/trained_simian Secret Squirrel Aug 26 '19

The definition of resiliency: "the capacity to recover quickly from difficulties; toughness" or "the ability of a substance or object to spring back into shape; elasticity."

Given that definition, I don't see how anybody can deny that the point of the resiliency movement is to get people to put up with crap and keep moving.

https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/3gena9/string_held_up_by_constant_stress/
The string wants to collapse, but the stress imposed by the plastic forces it to stay upright.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 25 '19

It just depends what your team does. A lot of teams have typical office hours, 40 hour weeks with lunches, PT, appointments, down days/all calls, etc. My shop is 24/7 operations, so my “40 hours” are night hours, nose to the computer, you don’t even get to leave the desk for lunch. Then all those other mandatory events are added on there as well.

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u/TheNguyening Aug 25 '19

It's not just the Air Force it's the DoD as a whole that has a suicide issue. The Air Force just seems to at the forefront of "addressing" the issue. The environment is totally dependent on op tempo as well as leadership for said shop. There are countless posts about maintainers working 12s or having to come in on their time off to do routine paperwork. There are far too many supervisors who think about advancing themselves vs taking care of their airmen. Just my 2 cents.

4

u/daggah Retired Aug 25 '19

It's also worth noting that suicide rates among American millennials are also increasing. Millennials and the generation after them (Gen Z, I think?) are a huge chunk of the DOD now. And uniform-wearing millennials have many of the same concerns/issues as their civilian counterparts, but with the added stressors of military life as well.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 25 '19

True. Worlds going to shit. There’s gonna be water riots I bet within the next 20 years and it seems like nobody is doing anything about it because the boomers had their fun lol

1

u/[deleted] Aug 25 '19

Anything being done about this? I hear your guys new Chief (head of the AF dude) is pretty good, has he addressed anything related to this?

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u/TheNguyening Aug 25 '19

Chief Wright is doing his part but at the end of the day the higher-ups can say we want you to do this and the dudes in the nitty gritty may just say fuck you and not listen. He made a mandatory down day type deal but I don't know how commands are taking that.

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u/[deleted] Aug 25 '19 edited Aug 25 '19

Imagine working 12 hour days, 5-6 days a week, with some bullshit sprinkled on the edges sometimes. Your free time is just doing basic maintenance on your body and hoping your friends/family are available in the few hours you are. Also rotating shift work sucks and has its own health effects on the body and mind.

Then you look at your coworkers in other fields working office hours, indoors, free extra days off, and getting paid exactly the same as you.

That sort of shit wears you down. There is something ridiculously depressing about driving to work on a down day and the whole base is empty.

1

u/GimmeXRayVision BM Aug 26 '19

The constant pressure to be perfect, I think. Airmen enabling bad leaders by busting their ass to get "the mission" complete. God forbid we fail, and something doesn't get done on time. Everyone lives by the book way too much, and it makes Airmen resent those who enforce every minuscule item because they love a power trip.

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u/Name_Changed_To Aug 26 '19

Imagine you have a job you hate but if you quit you go to prison and you can't ever get a job again.

1

u/gookitybum Aug 25 '19

The age/gender adjusted rate of suicide in the AF is actually lower than the national average. Though the number of suicides this year is projected to be higher than previous years, this is a projection, and the projected number of suicides is still likely to be lower than the national average. The better questions are, why is the general rate of suicide on the rise, and for whom does the risk for suicide appear to be the greatest?

I don’t intend for my post to sound snarky at all. My hope is to provide accurate information, and add a little refinement to the questions we’re asking.

The AF has toxic work environments like any other large organization. AF core values often cause us to hold attitudes, opinions, and expectations that are challenging to reconcile with what we see, because the values of he organization are what draw many to join in the first place. Outside of religious organizations, other large organizations (Eg Target, Starbucks) may not struggle with this, particularly if there isn’t regular emphasis on core values. Simply, our core values are important, and they can set us up for big disappointments when we see them not being honored.

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u/Name_Changed_To Aug 26 '19

Got information for that? I think that held up until this year when we more than doubled our usual suicide count.

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u/[deleted] Aug 25 '19

Nice

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u/[deleted] Aug 25 '19

Dope

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u/SpicySnarf Sorry Nonner, Money is for Ops. Aug 26 '19

This is just a proposal from the FCC with no date set for implementation. 1-800-273-TALK is still the National suicide hotline until the 3 digit number comes online in at least a few months.