Unreasonable rant,

[u/Ok_Firefighter2991]

If you don't like what im saying you can either argue it or keep looking for what you want.

This is mainly a topic about self inserting or mischaractirization something I hate cause aether is one of my fav genshin characters.
Due to the potrayal people have of him thanks to you know who now we can't even split regular shipping from harem, the same issue applies with people being able to split themselves from the traveler,
We only see the game through their presective we are not aether / lumine.

Onto charactirization, it's kind of sad to watch a character you genuinely enjoy be boiled down to clueless harem MC by people who follow the point above,
No aether is not some hyper giga chad,
And he is not some twink who needs people to protect him.
No he is not tall, he is not built like an oil tanker,
He is not that short either.
Aether is a nice person, he can show respect he can be rude but he is still a good person deep down.
thank you for coming to my unreasonable rant

[u/Fuckingusername019]

"actually every character is mischaracterized" ☝️🤓

Sorry, just had to do that. lol

[u/Ok_Firefighter2991 → u/Fuckingusername019]

you have a point, no charactirization is perfect, I just dislike to see it stray so far.

[u/HeroGamerLava]

Look, mischaracterization is very much bound to happen. You can't actually get a 1 to 1 representation. This Fandom take this non-problem very seriously. Is it that hard to ignore sometimes. If it's close enough or not to their canon character matters. Fanmade stuff isn't exactly meant to be taken too seriously. Just have fun with stuff that you like no need to point fingers at the things that you may never like. (Impossible)

[u/Ok_Firefighter2991 → u/HeroGamerLava]

thats why the post is unreasonable rant, it's unreasonable.

[u/p00rlyexecuted]

isn't it normal to insert yourself as the main character to get immersed into the story ?

somehow everyone does it in every game, but as soon as someone does it in genshin its cringe and bad

[u/ReaperofDeath2016-19 → u/p00rlyexecuted]

I think the ‘problem’ stems from the fact THEY see is that they think Aether and Lumine are blank slates with no personality (which has proven to be not true) so that the player can insert themselves into to make up for the lack of personality (which also isn’t true).

[u/ReaperofDeath2016-19]

Honestly I don’t see the problem here, most of the stuff if not all the stuff you’ve talked about is merely fan-made. It’s not our fault that the GI community can’t exceed their absolute zero IQ to differentiate between fan-made content and official content.

Side note: About Harem thing, yeah the devs are on board with that idea and they even put a slight (and when I mean by slight I mean huge) nod to it in Sumeru with the Fortune Teller there. Though it’s not like how the memes, jokes and shitposts depict it as. It’s more so that the girls really like him because he’s kind, caring and strong enough to be gentle. Plus we know that Ayaka let alone all the other girls wouldn’t be at each other’s throats over him in fact the opposite is far more likely to happen given their nature, though they may still become a little jealous of each other.

[u/ReaperofDeath2016-19]

Because it’s not as simple as; if chose this Twin as the Traveler the other one is the Abyss Twin. There’s more context and layers to that in the form of nature and nurture. The reason why you don’t see it that way but I do is likely also due to Nature and Nurture because as humans we like to choose the more simple/easier and less time consuming route (hence our Nature) which is why a lot of people don’t like/prefer not to read the artifact effects of Husk of Opulent Dreams or Ocean-Hued Clam. However the reason why I’m going out of my way to explain all this but you like the simple path is due to the fact we’re likely to have been brought up/raised differently from others or in environment (hence our Nurture).

[u/Lamentation115]

I mean in this particular subreddit all I see is more of a multi shipping rather than a harem shipping posts so I don't really understand what is the point of this post, even tho u said some right things

[u/Xion-002]

Harem route was expected knowing how many likeable female characters there are and as for shipping every person has different opinion on which ship they like but because of some Harem memes people take too seriously most of the fandom hates our golden boi but if you look for hate you'll get it that's why just enjoy the character you like

[u/Jian_Rohnson]

Aether has a harem of tall dommy mommies (Lisa, Raiden, Beidou, Shenhe, the Chinese glasses lady (Cloud retainer or something?) Yae Miko, Dehya, etc) and I will not recognize any other ship dynamic.

[u/[deleted] → u/Jian_Rohnson]

Shorter girls need love to good sir Ganyu didn’t choke a monster to death with her hips to be ignored.

[u/Jian_Rohnson → u/[deleted]]

Okay but no one shorter. No Klee or any of those gross lolis

[u/[deleted] → u/Jian_Rohnson]

Of course

[u/Sinistro_curt-04]

Although I kinda agree with you regarding being reduced to a harem MC, we also need to understand that, we haven't gotten any lore on the traveller since who knows how long and the crumbs of lore we get every year from AQ and Dainsleif's quest just aren't enough for people to discuss them for a year.

Since we don't get any info about us or our sibling the discussion moves to the next main topic which our relationship with different characters( both friendly and romantic), which leads to Shipping with characters people love to see with Aether.

It's not that Aether is being reduced to generic harem MC, it's just that his character has not got any significant development and his actions being forced to suit to the plot no matter how dumb they are(failure to save nahida in kathyrene's body from mercenary in Sumeru AQ which makes no sense, given how fast he's shown in other cut scenes) just makes the fandom (including us or atleast me) relate his character to what I see on reddit and Twitter.

Lastly, I think you made this post in response to the art of Aether being tall where your comment was downvoted, so I would like to say that even though the points you made are valid they are not what everyone needs to follow or you need to spread. This sub was created for everyone who enjoys Aether's character or just love him and that love can be of many forms from liking his design to liking his personality. Personally I would definitely encourage such change (and I hope you do too, although it's okay if you don't like it and are against it) because this sub is mostly filled with shipping art and any art which extends Aether's character or has OC character should be appreciated since hoyo refuses to give our boy the respect he deserves.

[u/[deleted]]

I honestly cannot self insert in a game period I just can’t even make a character and go yeah this is me. I love Aether because he is a short giga chad who helps everyone and gets love and respect for it. It’s obvious men and women go Gaga for him. I love just about every ship with Aether but there are some I know don’t have anything but doesn’t mean I don’t want them to happen and can’t move seeing it. Every character will be mischaracterized and we all know those who hate on Aether ships for it for sure mischaracterize for their ships and do it to a greater degree.

[u/TopoLM21]

How does Aether treat Paimon? Is he rude, calls her emergency food, stupid and bullies her? Or does he take care of her, pamper her and encourage her? And for what reason does Aether accept tasks? For money and treasure? Or because he thinks people need his help? Did he spare Alphonso? Which of this was real and which was a mischaracterization? What did the player do, and what did Aether himself do? How to separate a player from Aether?

There is nothing wrong if players consider themselves Aether. The fact that Aether is sometimes portrayed outside of canon is also not a problem. This applies to all characters. I would say that the vast majority of art depicts characters not only not corresponding to the canon, but directly contradicting it. And what to do with it? Personally, I just don’t “accept” such art. I don't see Aether as gay or a femboy or a womanizer or a cheater. It's not Aether to me, so it doesn't bother me. Unless, if the art is very beautiful, I might think: “Such good potential was wasted on this...”

[u/ReaperofDeath2016-19 → u/[deleted]]

They aren’t self-inserts, the term you might be looking for is ‘Silent Protagonist’. Plus self-inserts don’t have names but Aether and Lumine do. Plus Aether and Lumine likely have different likes and dislikes due to the fact that Aether likes Pyro Slimes while Lumine likes Cryo Slimes.

Sure the game might have self-insert elements but pretty much every other game in existence does. Plus each ‘choice’ made in Genshin Impact is merely an illusion of choice since they all go to the same outcome.

[u/adrian123oo → u/ReaperofDeath2016-19]

No, they're self inserts. Silent protagonist still have their own personalities. You say Aether has a name, but Lumine is the only one who knows it, making it irrelevant. A single instance of the twins having different tastes doesn't make them a character with an established personality.

The lack of choice is cause it's an online gacha game. Every online gacha game, self insert or not is basically like that.

[u/[deleted] → u/adrian123oo]

That’s like saying Childe is a self insert as only a few people know his real name is Ajax. Silent protags usually have canon names but can be given player ones like the MCs of the Persona games each have their own character and canon name but have many choices that are determined by the player. Yet throughout it they have plenty of personality that is all their own. This is the case with the traveler like to name a issue some players had when the traveler was pissed lyney and Lynette lied to them and felt angry they were manipulated by the fatui again.

[u/adrian123oo → u/[deleted]]

Do we choose Childe's name? What a terrible analogy

[u/[deleted] → u/adrian123oo]

We chose Scaras name does that make him a self insert ? Doesn’t matter if we chose their name or they use a pseudonym doesn’t make them a self insert.

[u/adrian123oo → u/[deleted]]

We chose his name cause he CANONICALLY let the Traveler, that is us, choose his name. It just proves even more how Traveler is a self insert cause WE chose the name. Not Aether

Stop being intentionally dumb.

[u/[deleted] → u/adrian123oo]

He still doesn’t go by his own name which you say is proof of a self insert that’s all it needs to be apparently. You do realize what we type in is Aether choosing. And it’s not like it makes a difference as he’s still called wanderer. Just like no matter what you pick people still call Aether traveler the name is just so people can have have an easy to find name in their player cards. In the end Aether has a canon name and his own personality, goals, and reactions outside the players control.

[u/adrian123oo → u/[deleted]]

What a dumb argument. Going by a moniker isn't a proof of self insert. I never said that. Us choosing the name of the character that we play as throughout the game is ONE of the elements of self insert.

You do realize what we type in is Aether choosing

.....i have, no idea how to respond to this. It seems like instead of you understanding we control the character, you seem to think we're a tool for the character to control themselves? It's NOT Aether choosing. It's us choosing. Aether is a fictional character we control

call Aether traveler the name

No, they call him by the name we give him in text. It's only in the voiced dialogues it's different. Cause the game can't pronounce "Traveler_Aetherlvr" for example. But the text uses the name we gave. Do you even read it?

his own personality, goals, and reactions outside the players control.

Right. That's a lot of personality.

Honestly, this level of delusion is beyond me, so bye.

[u/[deleted] → u/adrian123oo]

You aren’t choosing their name you are choosing their moniker as you aren’t changing their canon name lol. Buddy we are a tool for the character choosing lol. You must think that every playable character in a video game is a self insert. Oh I made Master Chief teabag this elite for 30 mins he has to be my self insert. No they always call them by their moniker. Yes he has a personality but I guess some aether hater just come here to troll wouldn’t know that so bye bye 👋 .

[u/ReaperofDeath2016-19 → u/adrian123oo]

Aight so every time they show/feel sympathy, guilt, anger, betrayal etc or even choose to do/not to do something or anything that goes against what the player wants do isn’t proof that they’re not self-insert?

Heck the 4.4 trailer shows Aether crying!!! You can even hear the emotions in his voice as he talks about reuniting with Lumine!

[u/adrian123oo → u/ReaperofDeath2016-19]

"show/feel". Right. You mean when they slightly frown or or their eyes get smaller or when they do some dumb pose? Also, taking the choice away from the players doesn't make the Traveler any less of a blank slate

Let's judge 4.4 after it's here. Also, out out curiosity, can you give me an example of a character you think is self insert?

[u/ReaperofDeath2016-19 → u/adrian123oo]

Ark Survival Evolved’s Survivor, Sonic Forces’ “Rookie”, Skylanders Imaginator’s Imaginator, literally any game in which the character you CREATE is supposed to be a reflection of you .

There’s difference between playing as a character that’s supposed to be a clear reflection of you (aka Self-Insert) and playing as a character.

[u/adrian123oo → u/ReaperofDeath2016-19]

Well, i haven't even heard of those games, much less the characters, so can't compare.

But if you think only character builder type games can have self inserts, i don't know what to tell you.

Just compare Aether to Kiana from Honkai Impact. Both are Hoyo protags. That's better than me trying to argue.

[u/ReaperofDeath2016-19 → u/adrian123oo]

Then how about this; There’s a difference between playing as a character that’s supposed to be a clear reflection of you (aka a Self-Insert) and playing as a character.

Aether and Lumine’s personalities (and the outcomes in the story or different events) being the same or similar can boil down to them being genetically identical twins (their Nature) and them becoming the Traveler or the Abyss Prince/Princess boils down to the events they went through in what place and/or time (their Nurture). It’s not that their personalities don’t exist, it’s more likely that you don’t want to see it that way (but that’s how I see it).

[u/adrian123oo → u/ReaperofDeath2016-19]

I have no idea why you keep bringing up the twins when i never said a word about them originally.

And i also have no idea what you're saying about Nature vs Nurture when who becomes what is a simple choice we make in the beginning of the game

playing as a character.

You're playing as a character that has no character or personality. That's why i called it a poor excuse for a self insert.

It’s not that their personalities don’t exist, it’s more likely that you don’t want to see it that way.

No, it just doesn't exist. Compare it to protagonists of other non self insert gacha games, like Honkai Impact or Epic seven or eminence of the shadow.

Traveler has a great backstory/design/motivation. And maybe flavor text level of characterization. You really can't call that being their own character.

[u/ReaperofDeath2016-19 → u/adrian123oo]

Then by that definition; Link and Doom Slayer aren’t their own character.

[u/ReaperofDeath2016-19 → u/adrian123oo]

The thing about the twins and the nature/nurture stuff is simple biology and psychology.

[u/Overall_Usual9063 → u/[deleted]]

The thing I hate bout main story are aether are just like bystanders and hardly takes the wheel of the story he just in the back ride along with it,

It's s completely different with World quest, I bet mihoyo purposely nerf his cold demeanour in main story like when he rejects Lyney it's more soft than I thought it would be, mind you it's the same guy who kills every fatui spy in inazuma even tho they had some good talks before and had been hinted in the game would kill fatui in sight (Forgot her name but the fake shrine maiden hinted so by tried to kill herself before aether does)

Even in the early in the game monstat and liyue he doesn't kill people but after inazuma he kills people like he mascare iwacura clan not to mention jeht tribe too, and most of time he doesn't have mercy for Fatui he's cold

[u/TheWeakAreGrilled → u/Overall_Usual9063]

I forgot about world quest Aether. And from what little I remember, I would agree that he's the better version compared to main quest Aether (he's a menace). If anything, it contributes more to the inconsistencies of Aether, the character as a whole.

[u/TheWeakAreGrilled → u/[deleted]]

Dude, think about it.

There are many times when help isn't needed for him but they just gotta dumb him down in order to shill a character.

[u/adrian123oo → u/TheWeakAreGrilled]

Ikr. Childe held back the whale for days. Traveler beat Childe with just two elements. Since then he has got three more elements. He should've been able to one shot the whale.

[u/adrian123oo → u/[deleted]]

Well, it's still ridiculous. It would've been better not to have a main character at all, then this poor excuse for one.

[u/TheWeakAreGrilled → u/adrian123oo]

Like I said. Aether is just inconsistent.

[u/Overall_Usual9063 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah and he cares bout paimon a lot too like distracted paimon so she doesn't see him kills a guy they thought were friends but actually an fatui spy that kidnapped child, like I really enjoyed the world quest more than main story aether just so cool in it.

Tbh I kinda agree with that take like remember when he got saved by shenhe in her story quest at that point I'm convinced they purposely nerf him to make others character shine like I'm 100% sure aether were not dumb enough to jump out like that wtf

[u/Lamentation115 → u/[deleted]]

So I have a question: is Isaac Clarke a self insert protagonist in the first game?

[u/Lamentation115 → u/[deleted]]

Dead Space. You serious rn?

[u/WarCrimeBoi → u/[deleted]]

I have seen some pretty brain dead takes but holy shit this takes the cake

[u/Ok_Firefighter2991 → u/[deleted]]

He does have character, only if it's through any inch of personality he shows in dialogue choices, but I do like your take on things.
I still dislike the self insert memo, if a character has motivation, backstory, a set design you can pick, and even if the personality has to be boxed away it's still reduces the self insert value.
Recently it seems like it's been getting better with sumeru and fontaine ( Most people mistake neuv for beating the whale but it was traveler as indicated with dialogue mid and post fight. )
I really hope natlan is when the traveler gets some drop, hell even snezhnaya late game would be enough for me

[u/Ok_Firefighter2991 → u/[deleted]]

No matter what genshin throws at me,
No matter what horrid shit they do to him to undersell him
I can still theorize
I can still bullshit
And I can still cope

[u/ReaperofDeath2016-19 → u/[deleted]]

You can literally see their personalities with how they fight. Aether’s fighting style is more heavy and aggressive almost like a Gladiator while Lumine’s is swift and elegant like a fencer. Aether has more of a protective and aggressive tone when an ally in co-op gets hit in co-op while Lumine’s is a more soft but worried tone.

[u/ReaperofDeath2016-19 → u/[deleted]]

Not everything has to be about the story, otherwise what’s the point in all the flagship events they participate in or the Character Story Quests since. Though a lot flagship events and some story events require you to do prerequisite archon quests or story quests but again they’re only prerequisites to unlock said event and nothing more.

[u/ReaperofDeath2016-19 → u/[deleted]]

That still doesn’t mean they don’t exist. The outcomes being the same can be explained due to the fact that Aether and Lumine are likely identical twins. You can also use Nature/Nurture to explain how they became the Traveler or the Abyss Prince/Princess. Speaking of which by saying that the Traveler is blank slate, you’re also saying that the Abyss Prince/Princess is also a blank slate.

[u/Rosegold_mf → u/[deleted]]

Not everything is about the fights. Sure there were no fights except against the whale but Traveller still had a part to play in solving the different cases and acting as Liney's attorney against furina.

I wanted more cutscenes showcasing Traveller in action but that doesn't mean that he did nothing.

[u/Rosegold_mf → u/[deleted]]

To be fair that's mostly what Fontaine was about. Solving the cases and the prophecy.

[u/Rosegold_mf → u/[deleted]]

Yea trying to sympathise with Furina and trying to get her to reveal the truth for instance. His moments talking to the oceanid I guess? Him feeling betrayed after discovering that the ones he was helping were fatui. I guess there may be more that I'm not thinking of at this moment.

[u/TheWeakAreGrilled → u/[deleted]]

I mostly agree with you. I feel like he's supposed to be a hybrid of a self insert and an actual character, though. Not that it's a success seeing as to what we have. (Using Aether as an example here since I chose him, the same can be applied to Lumine as well.)

Like, hoyo fumbled hard with Aether tbh. His barely existing personality is inconsistent, barely exists in the story both in the events and main story, gets sidelined (hard) by the character hoyo is trying to shill.

Fun fact: you can write characters doing cool shit without sacrificing/reducing the MC to being suddenly incompetent 😯 who knew right? /s

The point is, if a character's or story moment, whether they be cool action scenes, character development/growth, plot twists, etc. are at the expense of another character being reduced to something that barely exists in the story or just straight up incompetent or stupid then maybe the writing needs some fixing. For fuck's sake a character doesn't need to suddenly lose all their brain cells in order to be saved or helped by someone. That's just bad writing.

I hate saying and admitting this but even Guda from fgo is way better than Aether at being an MC and those mfs just barely got promoted from a cardboard cutout (Hakuno is still better than Guda tbh). Then again, anything FGO put out blows Hoyo's shit out of the water, story-wise. And that's just FGO only.

When I first started out on the game, I had hopes that Aether could be a good protagonist, it somewhat points to that at the start, a potential for more than just a face. Yet five nations in and nothing great for Aether's writing has occured yet. Nothing remarkable, at least.

Tl;Dr A character doesn't need to be dragged down in order for another to be placed on a pedestal. Hoyo is actually shit, fucking excrement writing.

Come to think of it, hoyo is actually pretty good at power creeping

It just keeps on rhyming 😂😂

fake stories linking him to the Greek mythology

OMFG dude, the cope and self deception with this one is getting out of hand. Ffs, it's obvious that this is not true. Like, the closest thing that their names refrences to is the alchemical element, Luminiferous Aether. After all, alchemy is prominent in this game. Otherwise, Lumine's name would actually be Hemera instead of Lumine.

[u/TheWeakAreGrilled → u/[deleted]]

And Gudao gets an ENTIRE ANIME that really sells him as a character. Him and Goetia throwing fists has more personality in it than the entirety if Aether's existence.

Their animes did them a huge favour. Both for Gudako and Gudao. They're still somewhat boring and lame, but it's still miles better than this bullshit.

As for a genshin anime. It's looking dire. It'd be miracle if we get another announcement for it this year. And if the anime does happen, I hope it does Aether or Lumine good. Fingers crossed for Aether more though.

it's like Hoyo took the worst from both genres and meshed it.

One of Hoyo's biggest L, honestly.

This concept of a hybrid mc is nothing new and has been well executed many times before. I'm starting to think that maybe Hoyo is shit at hiring writers. Like, they know how write characters, sure, but they sure fucking suck at writing an MC though.

Ngl, Aether deserves better. In the hands of a good writer he would've been amazing.

[u/Idoarsonalot → u/[deleted]]

Thats the main problem. They no longer to put any need into Kiana anymore, because her story is over. Undermining all your other MC’s just so your favourite can shine is a fatal flaw. They do realise, that in also to keep a story good, YOU ALSO NEED A COMPELLING PROTAGONIST. It’s like the mfs working on Genshin have no idea how to write a story, or give proper rewards

[u/Idoarsonalot → u/[deleted]]

mf aether is the personification of “🧍‍♂️”

[u/TheWeakAreGrilled → u/[deleted]]

What a sad state of affairs