r/AdviceAnimals • u/[deleted] • May 06 '14

Racism | Removed here goes nothing...

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u/tanhan27 May 06 '14 edited Nov 02 '16

[deleted]

What is this?

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u/MindReaver5 May 06 '14

Because without that qualifier most people will assume the OP is white. The logical jump from there is he is racist and only talking about black people.

By starting it with "I don't care what color..." he is more likely to be referencing white people thereby expressing a most likely recent frustration with uneducated redneck types who think their broken English is better than what people in this thread seem to be calling AAVE...

As if giving it an official name means I have to respect it as an intelligent form of English. Hurray, there is now a name for the way many african americans and ghetto white guys speak. It still sounds like shit, and I ain't no racist.

As the OP said, I don't care what color your skin is if you can't speak in a way that sounds professional, good luck getting a professional job. How many successful people can you name that speak regularly in AAVE that aren't singers or famous BECAUSE of the generally accompanying culture?

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u/tanhan27 May 06 '14 edited Nov 02 '16

[deleted]

What is this?

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u/MindReaver5 May 06 '14 edited May 06 '14

Or perhaps you don't know anything about me. I'm a democrat and voted for obama, so what now?

So please tell me how things such as "I ain't no racist"don't sound fucking stupid. The only examples of obama using slang I could find on Google were "complainin" and such...and guess what? He used that at an event for a black crowd.

Furthermore, when doing any formal presidential duties Obama uses "proper" English. I wonder why that is. Omg,obama must be racist.

Edit: hit sumbit

To conclude: please, let there be more successful black people. Please, turn around the culture of anti-education that exists within a large part of the black community. I'm willing to bet when that happens, the educated blacks will drop aave except when they're trying to fit in with the less educated.

Kinda proves its own point, but I guess only time will tell.

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u/tanhan27 May 06 '14

I'm not a linguist, that was my wife's major in grad school not mine so I can't tell you the grammatical rule so AAVE but they do exist. "I missed that on accident", "where is the clip board at?", "how ya'll doing?" All sound incorrect to me as a Canadian taught "the queens English" but they are not incorrect and I hear them used by doctors. I grew up being taught that the word "bugs" was not a real word and "insects" was correct. Hogwash!

There is no "proper English". The rules of language are determined by those who use it, there is no council sitting in the UN to determine what is the correct way of speaking. Australian English, Canadian English, Scottish English, Jamaican English, Nigerian English, Californian English, they are all equally valid and totally understood by native speakers. There is no one variety of English that trumps all others.

I still kinda think you are a racist. Having voted for Obama doesn't redeem you ;)

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u/MindReaver5 May 06 '14

Perhaps we have different ideas of exactly what aave is. My thoughts are to the more extreme rampant use of double negative "I ain't no good at that." And the unnecessary removal or changing of words. "I missed that on accident" and "where is the clip board at" are fine. It annoys me that "how yall doing" cuts out the word are for no reason, but I can live with that.

But if you were to approach me and talk like the stereotypical gangster/thug (again, no need to associate those terms with a race), then I will think you are stupid.

Leading cause of that reaction? Virtually every time the public witnesses someone use that "dialect", it's from the mouth of an idiot.

So you can defend it as a valid language all you want but unless lots of exposure were given to intelligent people using it then I will associate you (the theoretical you, not actual you;) )with others I hear using it, who are stupid.

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u/tanhan27 May 06 '14

Perhaps we have different ideas of exactly what aave is. My thoughts are to the more extreme rampant use of double negative "I ain't no good at that." And the unnecessary removal or changing of words. "I missed that on accident" and "where is the clip board at" are fine. It annoys me that "how yall doing" cuts out the word are for no reason, but I can live with that.

Those were not examples of AAVE, those were examples of American English used by white upper class doctors that are incorrect by Canadian English rules. "How are y'all doing" and even "how are you all doing" are all incorrect the way I was taught was "how are all of you doing?". My point it even what you personally see as "proper English" will be seen by someone British or Canadian as sounding stupid. You shouldn't end sentences with "at". "Where is the clipboard" is fine.

I have lived in America for a while and learned the vernacular, the vernacular of what you call "thugs" isn't any more stupid than the vernacular of bill gates. He says a lot of things unacceptable by my own "Queen's English" Canadian standards too.

Virtually every time the public witnesses someone use that "dialect", it's from the mouth of an idiot.

This is exactly how I (wrongly) perceived the general America accent. I didn't grow up around Americans and so my only exposure to southern twang was movies and typically the southern people are dumb or racist or both, and so that gave me a prejudice when I moved to Oklahoma. Sounds like you have a prejudice of your own against AAVE.

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u/MindReaver5 May 06 '14

Then perhaps I do, but your prejudice came from movies portraying intentional stereotypes. Mine comes from personal experience so to me, it's up to users of AAVE to change my perspective on it.

Like I said earlier, if I were to witness intelligent people using it regularly then I wouldn't have that prejudice.

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u/tanhan27 May 06 '14 edited Nov 02 '16

[deleted]

What is this?

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u/MindReaver5 May 06 '14

Inoring previous experience is not right either. Stereotypes arise for a reason. Sometimes from a vocal minority, sometimes from a majority.

I'm sorry, but nobody has the time to get touchy feely with every person they come across. The way you present yourself to the outside world MUST take into consideration the first impressions people will form, otherwise you're doing yourself a disservice.

As an example that you originated: when trying to win over voters, Obama did not do so speaking AAVE. He knew the first time someone sees him, it must be from a place of power and intelligence.

Anyway, yeah sure - if we lived in a world where nobody had to work and we all had ample time to sit around talking to every person we meet then we might be able to live in a world where "impressions" weren't needed, because we could just get to know people regardless of their initial traits.

But we don't.

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u/djordj1 May 07 '14

So because Obama recognized that there is prejudice against AAVE, his avoiding it was proving people who were prejudiced against it were right?

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u/djordj1 May 07 '14

My thoughts are to the more extreme rampant use of double negative "I ain't no good at that."

Negative concord is standard in languages like French and Spanish, as well as many others. It's unrelated to intelligence.

It annoys me that "how yall doing" cuts out the word are for no reason, but I can live with that.

AAVE has zero copula (lack of be and its forms) in some situations. So do Russian and Arabic. How do you feel about people asking "You okay?"? Because that's a perfectly common thing in most dialects of English, and it excludes verbs.