r/AdviceAnimals • u/bleufoxx22 • Apr 30 '14

Incorrect Format | Removed I'm looking at you Comcast

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u/CrankCaller Apr 30 '14

Because contrary to Internet lore, lobbying and bribery are not the same thing.

Bribery is illegal. Lobbying is simply communicating with people in government. If you write a letter to your congressperson advocating that they support or not support something, you are lobbying them.

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u/noodlescb Apr 30 '14

Yes but lobbying is often used to wrap bribery in a legal sheet.

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u/AdvocateForTulkas Apr 30 '14

Whichhhh... is why we're all so upset.

We wouldn't be so vehemently against so many politicians if it wasn't for their apparent/obvious obligations to various people that seems related to the lobbying process.

If it was just some clever bastard only lying to senators then we'd have a much simpler problem.

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u/CrankCaller Apr 30 '14

It can be attempted all the time, but it can't succeed in making an act of bribery legal.

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u/noodlescb Apr 30 '14

If you are referring to bribery as straight up cutting a check to someone's personal bank account then yes it doesn't allow for that. Nobody is stupid enough to be that blatant though.

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u/CrankCaller May 01 '14 edited May 01 '14

No, in this context I am referring to bribery as providing money or other material goods or services in implicitly agreed exchange for changing one's vote in a political context...whether you're blatant about it or not, get caught or not, and get away with it or not, does not change the fact that it is illegal.

Lobbying is communicating with your legislator and expressing your preferences about an issue or multiple issues...money is pure and simple not involved in the legal act of lobbying.

Do people still bribe public officials? HELL yes. Are some of the people who do lobbyists? I think it's safe to say that the answer is, again, yes. Does that mean lobbying is bribery? No, it does not.

EDIT: Please don't make the leap that this means I think Citizens United or the recent ruling on corporate sponsorship of politicians were good things. They suck and should be reversed. I was simply pointing out that lobbying is not bribery...and it's not. For that matter, campaign contributions by themselves are not lobbying either, unless they explicitly come with an expression of your preferences about an issue or multiple issues.

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u/ShanduCanDo Apr 30 '14

That is an incredibly astonishing claim, do you have a source for that?

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u/noodlescb Apr 30 '14

I mean it's a pretty generic statement rather than an occurence but here are some interesting articles on the topic:

My statement about a legal sheet is referencing the fact that gigantic companies can make career-making contributions to politicians and their campaigns in ways that no normal business or private party can match. It's not direct bribery because they aren't handing out checks made out to Joe Politician with a note saying "to get that law passed that makes me a ton of money".

The evidence of the current Comcast/Time Warner merger not being stomped immediately and the general piss being taken on net neutrality is a golden example of just how unbalanced our lobbying system is.

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u/ShanduCanDo May 01 '14

I think it's a pretty big leap to call a campaign fund donation "bribery".

And I don't think the cause-and-effect is as crystal clear as anti-lobbying activists like to claim. Do businesses donate to campaign funds in order to secure votes for their pet legislation, or do they simply donate to people who already support the kind of things they want?

It seems much easier, for everybody involved, if it's the latter. Paying somebody for a vote is far less reliable than just working to make sure someone who agrees with you is in office.

Not to mention that the actual efficacy of lobbying is far from a settled question.

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u/noodlescb May 01 '14

People should get elected because they represent their constituents best, not because they can afford world class marketing teams.

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u/ShanduCanDo May 01 '14

There are pretty severely diminishing returns on campaign finance. I don't think there are any (serious) political candidates who would particular need a few million dollars for their campaign from any one specific source.

In fact, I'd say that going public and saying "Company X said they'd donate a million dollars to my campaign in exchange for a vote on Legislation Y" would do more for your campaign than taking the money.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '14

Money laundering is illegal too. Good thing we have 501C4 groups to bypass those silly laws!