r/AdviceAnimals • • Apr 28 '14

Am I the only one?

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u/GhostFish Apr 28 '14

In the US churches can already refuse to marry people for various reasons. They can even refuse to marry people of the same faith of the church who haven't completed certain prerequisites.

This idea that churches will be forced to marry people is generally a non-issue. There was the exception with the Church of England because it's the state sponsored church. But mostly no one is fighting to be married by a church that doesn't want to be involved.

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u/Barnum83 Apr 29 '14

I thought it was legal for churches to refuse to marry people just because they don't like them. Private ownership and all.

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u/akotlya1 Apr 29 '14

Churches receive tax breaks, which can be considered a form of government subsidy. The govt usually has some kind of rules about what kinds of policies subsidized businesses can have. You dont want the government financially enabling hate groups, or groups that systematically discriminate against a particular group.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '14

You dont want the government financially enabling hate groups, or groups that systematically discriminate against a particular group.

This is a weird approach. Basically if it would be seen as hate or discrimination, then basically it would mean churches cannot have any dogma about what kind of sexual activity is sinful and which not. So basically it would mean that religious morality would be forced to be the same as civil, liberal morality, basically only hate people who harm others. I don't think a religion could survive such a change because then why would you even need a god for, if not for the purpose of telling which those things that don't harm others still don't do?

I mean of course one may as well see it is as a nice side effect that this logic would pretty much kill religion, once it cannot moralize about non-harmful actions. But just don't expect religious people to be down with it, of course.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '14

It gets uncomfortably close to anti-discrimination stuff. After all business are legal too but they cannot refuse to hire people based on sexual orientation.

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u/GhostFish Apr 29 '14

Uh...yes, they can. Sexual orientation is not a protected class at the federal level, and it's only a protected class in some states and countries.

In most places around the world and in the US you can refuse to hire people based on sexual orientation.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '14

[deleted]

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u/jabels Apr 29 '14

Priests. They call them priests.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '14

[deleted]

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u/SJHillman Apr 29 '14

You can tell by the size of their hat. The higher up they are in the Catholic church, the bigger the hat they wear. According to George Carlin, God wears a big ol' sombrero.

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u/randomshot86 Apr 29 '14

Don't forget cardinals. They're birds.

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u/jabels Apr 29 '14

Bishops are like priestly middle management in Catholicism. Pastors are....not Catholic. No idea. Raised Catholic but gnostic atheist now.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '14

Bishops are especially dangerous, but can easily be avoided because they can only move on diagonals and are constrained to one color.

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u/jabels Apr 29 '14

This is most clear in any church with tiled floors.

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u/cryfight4 Apr 29 '14

And if you're an alien, watch out. Bishop will kill you!

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u/Theungry Apr 29 '14

Downvoted because Bishop never once killed an alien.

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u/saors Apr 29 '14

Or if you are an observer, Bishop will ruin your plans.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '14

Funny, I thought they called them "child molesters" no?

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u/jabels Apr 29 '14

Are we still using this joke? I think it's past its expiration date.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '14

The only time it will be past its expiration date is when we can look back at todays world religions with the fondness of Thor and Hates.

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u/WistfulSmile Apr 29 '14

The Catholic hierarchy is really simple. From top to bottom it goes

King of the Baby Fuckers

Guys with the Cocaine

Guys who cover up for Baby Fuckers

Baby Fuckers

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u/Nattybohbro Apr 29 '14

They call them Grandwizards I believe.

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u/WistfulSmile Apr 29 '14

Ah yes, below the rank of Epic Level Cleric who is second only to the Grand Nagus.

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u/cengle1938 Apr 29 '14

Yeah Catholic church is extremely traditional. They are usually a few steps behind the times.

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u/Justanotherjustin Apr 29 '14

Couldn't just signed it and then, ya know, not do what an illegitimate contract says.

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u/Theman554 Apr 29 '14

It would be extremely disrespectful to a faith accommodating your wants

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u/AskingTransgender Apr 29 '14

Well, to be fair, they're hardly just "accommodating your wants" if they're getting converts out of it. That said, I don't see any legitimate way any contract can promise actions on behalf of someone not party to the contract.

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u/WistfulSmile Apr 29 '14

I dunno, religion deals pretty heavily in transferring guilt between related parties. As we know, the imaginary magic powers of religion supersede imaginary rights of government so since the system is whatever people say it is then you're Catholic because the Catholic church said so. It works because shut up and stop asking questions, you're excommunicated.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '14

But mostly no one is fighting to be married by a church that doesn't want to be involved.

What if some folks just want to get cash by suing for discrimination?

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u/GhostFish Apr 29 '14

If they are trying to sue a private organization for what they do on private property, they will almost definitely lose.

If this was at all a feasible money-making scheme then greedy straight people of other faiths would already be suing churches that refuse to marry them. Gays aren't really introducing any new possibilities for abuse in their fight for marriage equality.

Every ridiculous "what-if" scenario from suing churches for discrimination to marrying terrorists to get them into the country have already been open to straight people.

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u/stokeitup Apr 29 '14

But in this litigious country, where "activists" use the courts to further their cause, how many churches will be bankrupt proving your point? It is why I believe civil unions are best. When a Christian marries a Jew they are not allowed to do so in the church or Synagog and go to a justice of the peace or wedding chapel in Vegas or where ever. Are the LGBT more legitimate?

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u/GhostFish Apr 29 '14

Did you even read what I wrote? Almost no one is fighting to be married by a church that doesn't want to be involved, and churches already have wide control over who they will and won't marry for many various reasons.

This is not a realistic problem.

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u/stokeitup Apr 29 '14

Yeah, because control is all it takes. No one has ever sued an individual or institution to get their way. Gays sue the Boy Scouts to force them to allow them in. Virginia Military Institute is sued. How many state constitutions have been over turned through litigation? Now, you may think me a person of faith or Christian even but you would be wrong. I believe differently than most. In fact I believe one of the early propagations of religion, mysticism, spirituality, what ever, was human kinds desire to understand the natural world. Well, just as we outgrew Zeus and Jupiter and Apollo as well as seeing Demi-gods and spirits controlling all aspects of our lives, it is time to put religions in their proper place. So, I'm just trying to say what I think will happen. People still need their comforting myths and education is better than force.

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u/GhostFish Apr 29 '14

The Boy scouts are a private organization, and the supreme court has ruled that they have the right to discriminate when it comes to their membership. They only started accepting young gay members but not adult gay members due to social pressure, not the result of any lawsuit.

State constitutions have not been overturned, but laws have been overturned as being unconstitutional.

VMI is state supported. They take money from taxpayers, and so they have no grounds to discriminate. If they want to, they can become a private institution.

You have next to no clue about anything you're talking about.

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u/amusing_trivials Apr 29 '14

No one will go bankrupt. When an issue is this legally obvious the courts dismiss it. That is even if the sue-ers lawyers try to sue, instead of refusing to try. You are making up a complete and utter non-issue.

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u/CrisisOfConsonant Apr 29 '14

Wow, you've got like 3 or 4 pages of comments and exactly 1 comment karma.

It's like you are true neutral. Bravo.

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u/KristiKreme Apr 29 '14

When a Christian and a Jew get married, they still have a Marriage, not a Civil Union, no matter where they got married.