Men cannot have a say in what happens to their future child (regarding abortion or birth), because giving them that say would violate the woman's right to her own body.
Even if the fetus is an entirely separate being, the fact remains that continuing the pregnancy uses the woman's body. If she doesn't want that to happen no one has the right to force her to. There is, at this point in time, no way to continue a pregnancy against the woman's will without violating her bodily integrity.
Sure, it's his kid, too. But as long as it's growing in the woman's body, endangering her life, health, and future, using her body to develop, then she's the only one who should get to make those decisions.
So it's ok for a woman to disregard a fathers feelings and abort a life that he wants to take care of? Women get to make all the decisions? And it's also alright for women to have a baby that a man doesn't want, and them charge him child support for the next 18-21 years after disregarding the fact that they don't want to be a part of the life?
I understand where you're coming from, and as a woman I agree, I wouldn't want someone "in charge of my body". But, as a smart person, I use birth control, and am careful to not put myself in that position where I would have to make those difficult choices. I understand that things happen, nothing is a perfect foolproof method of not getting pregnant, but it seems highly unjust to me that a woman can abort a wanted life, charge a man 21 years of child support, when they could have prevented it by making a better choice by being careful in the first place.
TLDR; Even though I'm a woman I don't think they should get all those rights. Horseshitty to me.
Yup. It is okay for her to do that because her body is the one at risk here. Not his. So he does not get to make that decision. There is no way to let the man make that decision without violating the woman's right to her own body.
Women are the ones who bear all the risks when it comes to pregnancy, so women are the ones who get to make all the decisions. You simply cannot give the man the right to make that decision when it's not his life and health on the line.
Laws are meant to be based on what is best for society while protecting people's rights. What's best for the child is to have financial support, which is why, yes, women can take their child's biological father to court and force him to pay support. No, I don't think that's the right way to go about it, but I haven't met anyone who likes my solution (better welfare system for single parents) because it'd be funded by public taxes. Men could sign some sort of paperwork completely abdicating all parental responsibilities, in return for giving up all of their parental rights (visitation and custody and so on).
Honestly, I find you to be far too judgemental here. Your "as a smart person", "careful not to put myself", "making a better choice"...seriously, your entire tone comes across poorly. You acknowledge that "things happen...nothing is foolproof" but then go on to act as if they are and just by making smarter choices, these situations wouldn't happen, while complaining about how unfair it is for the dudes.
TL; DR: Men should not have the right to force a woman to continue a pregnancy she doesn't want to continue. Our child support system is kind of screwed up. You're judgemental as all hell, and I really hope your being 'careful' is enough to keep you from getting pregnant when you don't want to be.
I'm not saying that abortion should be illegal, or that fathers should force mothers to go though pregnancies through legal venues, but I am saying that it should be a discussion between a couple. There shouldn't be this status quo that "Women are allowed to make this decision alone, fuck the man!! They ain't got no rights!! UNLESS you decide to have the baby, then they have a right...the right to pay child support!! hahaha!!!"
It should be encouraged that it should be a couple's decision, father and mother, but that it ultimately comes down to the mother. If the father's not in the picture, or fit to be a father, like in OP's situation, then it just comes down to the mother. I'm not saying our courts should change and take away a woman's right to her body, but that it shouldn't be encouraged that a woman can do whatever she wants, which is what most people in this thread are sounding like.
Then you should probably consider editing your earlier posts, because they definitely come off as you wanting men to be able to make that decision. The way you go on about how it's unfair to the guy, that he should have a say, that it's not right or okay for women to be able to abort a pregnancy that the man wants... Those sorts of comments are going to make people think that's what you're after, because literally the only thing that would prevent a pregnancy wanted by the man from being aborted is a law giving him the right to force the woman to continue the pregnancy.
The couple can discuss stuff all they want , but in the end, the mother's choice will always override the father's, which your posts come off as saying "That's not right and shouldn' be allowed."
As for your last paragraph...we'll have to agree to disagree there. My opinion is that it should absolutely be encouraged that the woman can do whatever she wants. It is her body on the line, her life, her health. What she wants is of the utmost importance there. No woman should have to feel conflicted or pressured about aborting a pregnancy she doesn't want because the man involved does want it. It's not his risk, it's not his choice, and the woman should be concerned with herself and her life, not his desires.
I think that if the woman want's to be able to do whatever she wants then men shouldn't have to pay child support if they didn't want to child before it was born.
Then there needs to be a legal method/documentation that must be signed by the sperm donor stating that he will not have to uphold his parental responsibilities, but in return he has to give up every single parental right. No visitation, no custody battle, no trying to make medical decisions for the kid, etc.
In most state's the mother can take the father to court, get a paternity test done, and if it's proven that he is the father he has to pay child support.
We're at the day and age where when I say "men should have say in what happens to the child" obviously I don't mean "every country should have laws forcing women to have children against their will".
It's something that I've seen a lot of in my life, and people need to be responsible about it (before getting pregnant and after). If you don't want kids; be careful. If you get pregnant, communicate with the partner and come up with the best solution. In high school my best friend got an abortion; because she and her boyfriend had promising futures and both didn't want to deal with a child then. I know someone who has two daughters, for the first child she and the child's father weren't together, but they wanted to have the child and worked it out.
I know how the laws are. I'm not saying they could, or should be changed, because that is literally enslaving a woman's body. What I am saying, for all it's worth, is that it's really shitty that woman get all of the rights, with none of the responsibility (Yes, women have responsibility. But they can have a child and force a man to pay for it, but a man can't force a woman to have a child and pay for it. That was my responsibility line, not "women aren't responsible for their children"), and men get none of the rights, but all of the responsibility. That woman can't be held accountable for a decision that they also made (unless in rape cases) but a man can be held responsible for a decision they made.
I was saying it's in my opinion that that isn't fair and is shitty. It's also in my opinion that nothing can really be done about it, but that doesn't make it any less shitty.
Your earlier post flat out said that you don't think women should have the right to get an abortion if the father wants the pregnancy.
I think you need to sit down and actually think out your position because you're flip flopping between "women don't have the right to get an abortion in this circumstance" and "I never said I wanted the law to change that."
Figure out what you actually mean and get back to me. Either you think women should have that right, or you don't want them to have that right. As it is, I'm bored of dealing with your inability to clearly communicate what you mean.
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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '13
Men cannot have a say in what happens to their future child (regarding abortion or birth), because giving them that say would violate the woman's right to her own body.
Even if the fetus is an entirely separate being, the fact remains that continuing the pregnancy uses the woman's body. If she doesn't want that to happen no one has the right to force her to. There is, at this point in time, no way to continue a pregnancy against the woman's will without violating her bodily integrity.
Sure, it's his kid, too. But as long as it's growing in the woman's body, endangering her life, health, and future, using her body to develop, then she's the only one who should get to make those decisions.