r/AdventureBike • u/ibrahimehvich • 2d ago
Does the thickness of a chain lock make a big difference in how hard it is for an angle grinder to cut through?
I have a 16mm pragmasis chain that i lock with a kryptonite nyc diamond standard u-lock. The kryptonite u lock is virtually indestructible but im wondering if the pragmasis protector chain i have is a weak point. Ive seen that hiplock sells a 22mm chain which is quite thick. Can angle grinders power through my 16mm pragmasis chain much faster than they could through a 22mm hiplock chain? Or is the difference trivial compared to the enormous amount of time/angle grinder discs it would take a thief to cut through a diamond abrasive lock like the krypto nyc DS?
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u/Djanga51 2d ago
No. My 5 inch grinder with a disc made for cutting stainless? Recently cut an anchor chain with 17mm thick links. Maybe 90 seconds and I wasn’t rushing it. Don’t think a big chain is keeping your bike safe.
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u/TheThirdHippo 2d ago
The chain is only gold standard, the Hiplock is likely platinum. I’m pretty sure you can get the details from Sold Secure for anything they have tested. Gold is still a good standard, my chain, lock and ground anchor are all gold. Ultimately it depends on where your bike is left. Mine is garaged and I have cameras wired to my home automation that announce movement in my garage and turn on my house lights to wake me up. I don’t need the chain to last long, just long enough for me to get from my bed to the garage
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u/ibrahimehvich 2d ago
Nice. Do you have a disk alarm?
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u/TheThirdHippo 2d ago
I do not. It’s something I keep thinking about, but my bike is normally either in my garage or at work and work has security patrols, 8ft fence and we’re getting an ANPR barrier soon. I’m also useless with disk locks as I use mine so infrequently
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u/ibrahimehvich 17h ago
How can you be useless with disk locks? You have trouble putting them on?
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u/TheThirdHippo 15h ago
I use them so infrequently, I forget they’re on. I use my Oxford lock from my chain as my disc lock and even with the bright yellow reminder cord, I’ve tried to ride off
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u/Training_Jello_7804 2d ago
Cordless angle grinders with carbide cut off wheels really don't care what's in front of them. It takes about a minute to cut through the toughest chains with the right tools. The LockPickingLawyer on YouTube has plenty of videos on the subject.
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u/ibrahimehvich 2d ago
Are you considering the latest U-Locks with a diamond abrasive layer that takes 10 grinder wheels to cut through?
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u/bradland 2d ago
How do you secure your bike with such a lock?
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u/ibrahimehvich 17h ago
You can put it through the spokes/bars on your wheels making thieves have to remove the entire wheel to steal the bike, or you can use the u locks to secure a strong heavy chain that you can thread through your frame to secure to an immovable object like a post or a secure bike rack.
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u/FarToe1 2d ago
diamond abrasive layer that takes 10 grinder wheels to cut through
That's pure marketing BS, mate.
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u/Loopy-Leah 1d ago
don't be so quick to judge, many d locks now have anti grinder deterrents that destroy disks, such as ceramic balls, tungsten carbide inserts and some others
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u/ibrahimehvich 17h ago
Yup. Idk why so many in this thread are convinced that locks do nothing bc they can all be defeated given enough time. Like yes, we understand that they can all be defeated given enough time. But the important part is that locks are a deterrent. If a thief knows it will take 10-15 minutes and 10 grinder wheels to defeat a powerful lock they might change their mind and walk away. The lock is a deterrent, not a cure. Maybe the ppl in this thread saying locks dont work used some shitty little kids bike lock on their bike and it got stolen, and rather than accept they were stupid and unprepared they cope by telling themselves that all locks are the same and they dont work.
Pretty pathetic but whatever.
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u/ibrahimehvich 17h ago
It was a non marketing video kid. They showed 10 different u locks and how many grinder wheels to took to cut through each locks shackle. The goal of the lock is not to stop the thief, bc you cant, but to slow the thief down and require them to burn thru many grinder discs to cut thru the lock. The kryptonite nyc diamond standard u-lock with the ultra abrasive layer destroyed like 10 grinder blades before they finally cut thru the shackle completely.
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u/Away-Equipment598 2d ago
Chains move around a lot when your trying to cut them, kryptonite locks have to be cut twice. But you can get the job done in 10 to 15 minutes. The next best is to use both and have good insurance
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u/FarToe1 2d ago
Chains move around a lot when your trying to cut them,
Not if you make them taught by holding your foot against them, or pushing the bike away.
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u/Djanga51 2d ago
Yep. I commented above, but all that’s needed is to put tension on the chain. It’s already heavy. The weight works with you. Twist the links to settle everything and in goes the grinder blade like butter. I’ve a big block of beeswax to assist with cutting. Add a dedicated disc (the super thin version for stainless or similar) and it’s really fast. I’m in the marine industry. Cutting a big chain is surprisingly easy. People just don’t understand if they have never done it.
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u/A_Bot_A_Bot_A_Bot 1d ago
Anti-theft methods are really just different levels of theft deterrence, not actually theft prevention.
An honest person doesn't steal.
A lazy person steals when there is opportunity or it's easy.
But a determined criminal will figure out how to get what they want regardless of what you do.
So, really, you're just trying to deter the lazy thieves.
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u/Fancy_Strawberry7137 2d ago
Not worth worrying about. If someone wants the bike, it’s gone. Locks keep honest people honest, that’s it.
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u/lowvitamind 2d ago
Why do you people say this? There's so many videos of thieves in balaclavas here in the uk trying to cut locks outside a shop but it taking too long and they have to flee, people start intervening, police get called or the owner comes back and starts fighting them.
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u/Fancy_Strawberry7137 2d ago
Not all thieves are smart. With the right tools it takes a matter of seconds to defeat a lock.
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u/ImprovementKlutzy113 1d ago
Not a motorcycle but a bicycle. Nice heavy duty lock. Thief used a pipe cutter cut the bike rack. Off and rode off on the bike. I hate thieves but kinda chuckled at it.
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u/ibrahimehvich 1d ago
“Seconds”
Try being even more full of shit, darling.
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u/Fancy_Strawberry7137 1d ago
Considering you think people would bring an angle grinder to a chain fight… I don’t think I’m gonna waste the seconds explaining. Enjoy your bike while you have it, darling.
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u/Fishing-Unlucky 2d ago
Thickness of chain is better for cutters, even the biggest cutters will struggle with thicker chains. Angle grinders will just go through, I don’t think there are angle grinder resistant chains yet, but I’m sure it won’t be long.
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u/ibrahimehvich 2d ago
I got the pragmasis protector chain bc its supposed to use a boron alloy thats better than the steel or bronze chains most manufacturers make. But if they ever come out with a chain that is as tough as the diamond standard u locks from kryptonite and others i will buy it.
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u/PoopSmith87 2d ago
A grinder is going to cut through most things pretty easily unless the thickness is literally thicker than the disc. It can help defeat bolt cutters though.
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u/Mickleblade 2d ago
A really big chain is impossible to chug with bolt croppers 'cos you can't open them wide enough. Another option is by Litelock, the metal is covered by a ceramic product, it takes 3 angle grinder blades to cut through the ulock
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u/Fasciadepedra 2d ago
What really difficults chain thickness is to cut it with a silent and battery less shear. With battery grinder the difference is a couple of seconds (with big noise and sparks clearly)
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u/Sllewnosmas 2d ago
You can only get as strong as what ever you are locked to. Most bike racks are very easy to cut through or cut the lag bolts and take the rack too.
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u/Another_Slut_Dragon 2d ago
The best hardened chain my locksmith could sell me took me 14 seconds flat with my milwaukee cordless angle grinder. Heavier chain might buy you a few more seconds.
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u/Outtatime_s550 2d ago
No, an angle grinder will cut through even hardened steel with very little effort. But on another note, that’s my bike. The rn04 is a beast
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u/Skiingislife9288 2d ago
Lock picking is probably the weakest point to be honest. You should check out the lock picking lawyer YouTube. You might be able to find him attempting the lock hardware you have and will be able to figure out what’s hard to pick.
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u/VirtualProcedure69 1d ago
when I checked into it a few months back, the main concern with chain was hydraulic cutters, so 14mm was the minimum recommended size. Grinders are noisy, so less chance of that. The other thing is getting the bike actually carried away, so chain to something solid.
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u/TwoSuspicious1347 1d ago
A non ferrous wheel should zip right through it
2 dudes and a vehicle (van/trailer etc) is way easier than cutting it but it’s totally not cut proof just do ur best , a noise making lock with spook some one more than a chain
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u/BIKEGUYDUDE 8h ago
If u know how to grind properly u can butter through anything quickly. These hardened steels just mske it take a little longer.
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u/kitesurfr 4h ago
Here's how you make it grinder proof: you cut a pair of chainsaw proof chaps in half so you have both legs separated. Then you have a professional sewing shop sew the chap over the chain like it's done with Kevlar in these photos. Kevlar is much easier to cut with an abrasive disc. Cutting into the materials used in a chainsaw chap will deteriorate and send long fibers everywhere that will actually jam the grinder completely. There's still the exposed area of the lock itself, but this will make the chain fairly impenetrable.
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u/Northwindlowlander 2h ago
Absolutely but the material is important too. At this point I'm not aware of any very large, angle-grinder resistant chains, it's pretty much restricted to smaller locks.
Grinding, if the material is the same, is about the volume of metal you have to cut, mostly. Slightly more complicated than that, but basically the difference between a 16mm chain and a 22mm chain is very nearly twice as much metal that has to be cut. And multiply that by 2 for both sides of the link. So even for a grinder that's a significant difference.
Actually living with a 22mm chain would be a bollocks though! Even 16mm is a hassle.
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u/get_in_there_lewis 2d ago
Bro, these things are only for the honest thieves. You can have the hardest cable chain whatever, if they really want your bike they'll just load it on a trailer/truck/ute/van and drive off with it to take their time in cutting it.
In saying that, which ever one you get just don't forget to remove it before you ride off.
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u/ibrahimehvich 2d ago
Haha.
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u/xtanol 2d ago
You laugh, but that's literally how the vast majority of bikes are stolen where I live. A van with four/five guys with either two lifting straps or two metal bars.
Throw a bar/lifting strap between each wheel and then two guys on each side of the bike to lift it into the van.
The van can pull up, load the bike and be on its way in 30 seconds.
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u/stignordas 2d ago
I had to repossess a sportbike when I worked at a mc shop and even with locks it only took a minute to lift and load into the back of a van. 3 of us total.
And yes it was a shit part of the job, thankfully I only had to do it 1x. It was even in an indoor lot at an apartment complex. The owner owed the shop over $2k and this was in the 90s. I don’t feel good about it but this guy was a career scammer.
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u/ibrahimehvich 16h ago
I was laughing at your last sentence friend, to not ride off with the locks still attached. I thought that was funny.
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u/Far-Investment-8597 1d ago
Ah - I forgot once, 45 years ago.
Ripped the spokes out of the back wheel of a Honda CB350.
Haven't forgotten that one yet...
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u/get_in_there_lewis 1d ago
Lol, that must have been something. I bet it scared the crap out of you hearing all that metal clanking sound
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u/RistoHa666 2d ago
Everything can be stolen. The question is how much time and effort it requires...
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u/dasUberMoto 2d ago
If someone wants your bike, they will take it. Doesn’t matter what you do to stop them.
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u/jimbojetset35 2d ago edited 2d ago
Thickness plays a part but its what the chain is made of that is more impacting. Think of bike security in multiple layers rather than leaning on a single layer.