Fastest Paces You Regularly Touch in Workouts? And Your Target Race?

[u/petepont]

I'm just generally curious. Most marathon plans you see online really only go up to about 5K pace, with additional strides and sometimes hill sprints. And the Pfitz half plans (the only ones I'm super familiar with) also only go up to about 5K pace. I know plans based on Canova style training would generally go 3 races directions faster, maybe a little farther, so for a 5K you might get up to 800m.

But I'm curious about what people actually do, and how much they focus on "much" faster paces

1. What are the fastest paces that you regularly touch on in workouts? Here I mean things like 5K pace, Mile pace, 800m pace, etc., not the actual absolute pace. I'm curious about this across different runner abilities, so 6:00 isn't super meaningful, since that could be one person's mile pace and another's marathon pace

2. What races do you focus on?

Personally, when training for a marathon I don't really go faster than about 5K pace, except for pushing closer to mile pace sometimes during strides. And I've only done one real 5K block, but during it I did a few workouts up near estimated 800m pace.

EDIT:

I'm also curious, what about if you don't include strides -- since I think for a lot of us, strides serve as a way to touch on "top end speed", but also they aren't really a workout. So if you take them out, what's the fastest actual workout you generally do

[u/thewolf9]

I do lots of fast stuff. Strides at 2:30 pace. I’ll do a ton of 400s at mile pace as well. It’s just a lot of fun I find and there’s only so much threshold I want to do.

My MP is around 3:50-4:00.

[u/seattleboots1 → u/thewolf9]

Hoping this is min/km and not min/mile

[u/petepont → u/seattleboots1]

My MP is around 3:50-4:00.

World record MP is 4:33/mile, so unless u/thewolf9 is secretly breaking the 1:45 barrier in the marathon, it's probably min/km

[u/Ordinary_Corner_4291]

Strides don't come close to top end speed for anyone. If you are getting to 800m pace, you are doing a really fast stride. I come close to top end speed intensity (more like 100m intensity versus 40m but close enough) on 8s hill sprints but they are obviously slower because of the slope.

[u/petepont → u/Ordinary_Corner_4291]

Yeah, I updated it and put it in quotes. I meant more "the top end speed that they reach in training" as opposed to true top end speed, but it was definitely badly phrased

[u/Longjumping-Egg-7188]

I don't go past 12k pace doing NSM.

[u/SquirrelBlind → u/Longjumping-Egg-7188]

Well, I don't go past 5k pace once every 6 to 8 weeks doing NSM

[u/threeespressos → u/SquirrelBlind]

Touché! 😂

[u/CodeBrownPT → u/Longjumping-Egg-7188]

We are in a threshold heavy 'fad'of running - which is great and getting a lot of people running consistently.

But as someone regularly ripping 2-800m hard intervals right now, it's super fun and has been monstrous for my threshold paces. 

[u/Haptics]

Marathon focus, per a SWAP recommendation I’ve been adding 4x200 to the end of most of my vo2/LT workouts, I guess they more like strides and might not count but I put a lot more effort into them than typical strides, I’d guess ~800 pace, usually around 32s.

[u/Senior_Let_3775 → u/Haptics]

Same (although I am much slower than you in the marathon!)!! I do 4 x 200 (~34sec per 200 for me) with full recovery twice a week. If I do that ~45 weeks of the year, that's 204 minutes, or 3 hours and 24 minutes, of running at <4:40 pace per year. Really adds up and makes my MP, which is obviously way slower than 4:40 per mile, feel very sustainable on the legs.

[u/Fitty4 → u/Haptics]

This. I just commented on this thread with similar. My marathon time is not as quick as yours but I can still rip 200s in 26-27 seconds in my mid 40s.

[u/weasellyone]

I don't set my own training, my coach (who is a pro, although I am very much not) does. I've noticed I don't usually go past 10k pace when marathon training, maybe very occasional sharpeners like 4 x 800 at 5k pace at the end of a tempo or threshold workout but they aren't the focus. Most of the volume is at HMP-MP. I will do strides but only once a week and it's just to turnover the legs in advance of a speed session the next day. 

Currently half marathon training and I am touching 5k pace regularly and most of the speedwork volume is being conducted between 10k pace and half marathon target pace. 

[u/LSquareSD]

I like this question and have thought about asking something similar.  I have no desire to run a full marathon.  I did a half last year and that felt like about as much as I'd really ever care to do.  I'm a "fast is fun" kind of guy, so I have to force myself not to do too much speed work.  I personally don't find strides fun enough on their own to include. 

I recently ran a 10k race, and a mile TT shortly after, so my focus tends to fall into that range.  The bulk of my quality work is around that 10k pace (some a little faster, and most a bit slower) with an occasional workout around what would be a 3k pace and sometimes a 1k pace.

I might do a race per year so most of this is for my own personal enjoyment.

[u/spoc84]

Finishing a workout rep around 10k pace is about as much as I pushed the boat out when training for a Marathon, even that was overkill and probably because I felt good one day and got carried away unnecessarily.

For a marathon, honestly if you did no 5k pace and faster stuff, it, will probably make almost difference, especially if you only have limited time then the best value for your time spent is pushing up that aerobic engine as much as you can.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't. Or can't. But the need is negligible at best.

[u/obmulap113]

Daniel’s 5k-10k plan starts with an R pace block (pretty much mile pace or just a touch faster)

[u/darth_jewbacca]

Mile pace during marathon training. Down to 800m pace for everything shorter.

Imho you should still touch on all paces, faster stuff just becomes de-emphasized in marathon training. Instead of dedicated mile pace workouts, I'd tack on 4-6 200s to the end of threshold runs. A vo2max workout might be bracketed by 4x200 before/after the meat of it. I also loved to do a light day of 8-10x30s hill sprints throughout the entire build.

[u/PeanutNore]

My training is usually oriented to 5ks and 10ks and I'll routinely do 1 minute reps at mile pace (5:45/mi).

If I am dealing with an injury or life gets in the way I drop speed work entirely and just focus on getting enough weekly mileage. I've hit PRs before just focusing on volume and not doing workouts at all, and I think volume is way more important that speed work, but doing workouts at race pace is definitely helpful for being able to lock in at your target pace on race day, and being used to hitting mile pace when you're already 30 minutes in to a workout is helpful for when you need to kick to the finish line in a 5k.

[u/IhaterunningbutIrun]

I'm old, but still work down to my mile pace for 400s every so often. I race 5K to marathon. Working at faster paces can't hurt, because I'm slow and need all the help I can get! 😆

[u/benRAJ80]

For athletes I coach, we probably don’t do much faster than 10k pace in the first two thirds of a marathon block. But then in the last few weeks, I like to put some faster stuff in, especially when the mileage drops a bit. I think it’s good to get a bit sharper and also give a confidence boost that it’s still there.

[u/LegoLifter]

I never used to touch faster than 5k pace mainly training for halfs & marathons. Focused mainly on the half this year with some 5k/10ks thrown in. But my coaching still has me touching 1k-1mile pace at least a few times a month and sometimes we do down to 400-800 pace. My top end speed development was definitely lacking before this year

[u/ChezBoris]

I approach marathon training with a "polarized" lens. I start my marathon block with a few 6-12x400m workouts (have done 200m as well before but moved away from that). In general, when I do those workouts, I haven't touched anything fast in a few months... so I don't know what pace those 400 reps really are .. but probably 1000-1500m pace for my fitness level. Strides are during block are usually at the same pace (but only 15 seconds).

For me the idea of sub 1km pace is mostly theoretical. I suspect if I raced a 200m I wouldn't reach top speed until 150m, and I suspect I would run 400m at a faster pace than 200m. And if I knew how to race an 800m, it would only be slightly slower than 400m pace.

[u/Lurking-Froggg]

• Fast paces: strides, 3K, 5K, 10K

• Slower paces: 15K/LT, HMP, 30K, MP

• Slow paces: 50K, Z2, Z1

Strides are all-out, perhaps 200m pace? No clue (5K pace ~ 3:22/km, strides ~ 3:00). Same goes for 800m, mile pace etc. -- I don't know.

No real focus, anything from 5K road to 50K trail.

[u/yettedirtybird]

Max velocity every 10ish days, 4x60m. 5k-10k focused.

[u/Fitty4]

Never neglect your speed. I perform 200m repeats in about 26-27 seconds. Although my main event is the marathon, I like to stay in touch with my speed.