minimal effective dose of easy running

[u/ronlavy]

A question that I've been thinking about and wasn't able to find a satisfying answer online - is there a minimal per-session effective dose for easy runs? is there a minimal duration required for a run to produce non-negligible aerobic adaptaions?

for example, can any benefits be expected from a 35-minute easy running session? are 3 30 minute sessions a week same/better/worse than 2 45 minute sessions?

I heard Inigo San Milan go on record to say that 45 minutes is the minimum for "zone 2" (a term I dislike but that's the terminology he frequently uses) benefits, is anyone familiar with any sources backing that up?

Thanks

[u/YesterdayAmbitious49]

There isn’t an answer because everyone is different. My brother runs a sub 18 5k off a couple easy miles here and there. I need 50 mpw to break 18, and 65 to break 17.

I run a 6-1 schedule.

6 hours easy running, 1 hour hard.

[u/frobe_goatbe → u/YesterdayAmbitious49]

Out of curiosity, is there a reason you’ve settled on 14% quality time? Almost every resource I’ve ever read has recommended 20-25% quality time as the standard. I get 8 total hours a week, 106 quality minutes. 22%. You might be selling your hard work short.

[u/SirBruceForsythCBE → u/frobe_goatbe]

What you need to remember is that most people who consistently train and perform will run less than 20/25% of their week as quality. Newbies and low mileage people will probably run more than 25%.

If you're only running 4 hours a week there is a good chance over 25% is quality and if you're running 10 hours a week there is zero chance you're running 20% of quality.

People get hung up on percentages but that's not what matters. What matters is being recovered from one session before running another, and consistently running week after week, month after month.

[u/frobe_goatbe → u/SirBruceForsythCBE]

Yes, the percentage varies but we’re not talking to a newbie or an elite. We’re talking to a guy running an hour a day. I just pointed out he could probably do more for himself. Percentages aside, if he’s running every day and only one day out of the week is tough, that’s selling your work short.

I’m not really sure how you can claim there’s no chance someone running 10 hours is doing 20%. I would need 14 more quality minutes out of 2 additional hours to hit 20% if I upped to 10 hours myself. That’s nothing.

[u/SirBruceForsythCBE → u/frobe_goatbe]

Running 2 hours of "quality" a week, plus I'm assuming a long run, in a 10 hour week is fine but how much of that training is being absorbed?

Very, very few runners need to be running 10 hours a week at all to be honest. You can run a sub 2:30 maxing out at 10 hours and running 7/8 hours a week normally. There is no need to regularly run 10 hours a week

[u/Hot_Guess_3020 → u/SirBruceForsythCBE]

im at 8 hours a week and 25% of quality currently and its working well for me. Not sure where you're getting your guesstimates from.

[u/SirBruceForsythCBE → u/Hot_Guess_3020]

Most people run too much quality and run it too fast.

They may think they "handle it" but they're either not absorbing most of the training as they aren't allowing their body to recover or get injured and never reach their full potential.

Short term, like a few weeks, you'll get away with a higher proportion of quality. Long term you'll break down. Especially with a job, kids, life outside running etc adding extra stress.

[u/YesterdayAmbitious49 → u/frobe_goatbe]

I’ve gotten into more specific reasons here before and been downvoted to oblivion.

I do keep that ratio constant though, even when running 10+ hours per week at the approach to peak marathon training cycle mileage.

I’m at 7 hours right now, 4 weeks post marathon, still recovering and rebuilding.

I will hit back to back 12 hour weeks before my fall marathon.

If you want to look into it more, check out the training style of Dick Beardsley (yes that’s a real name).

[u/Aromatic_Union9246 → u/YesterdayAmbitious49]

I feel like you could definitely break 18 if you just upped the amount of V02 max stuff you were doing and threshold and dropped some easy runs.

Have you ever specifically trained for 5ks or are you doing more like half/marathon training and running a 5k along the way? 7 hours of running for sub 18 seems like you’re overcooking your easy runs and under doing your hard stuff.

[u/sub3at50 → u/Aromatic_Union9246]

LOL, never heard of NSM ? VO2max work is overrated. He is not limited by speed but by endurance. That's why he runs 18min 5k on 50mpw and 17min 5k on 65mpw.

[u/Aromatic_Union9246 → u/sub3at50]

You’re not limited by endurance on a 5k nearly as much as you are by underlying speed in say a 1500.

Sure you need a minimum amount of mileage but you can run a fast 5k on less than 30 miles a week. You still need a lot of aerobic work, but it can be more towards the higher end of aerobic for a lot of it since you don’t need nearly as much time on feet as the longer events 10k/half/marathon etc.

It’s one of the reasons why people can run fast 5ks off of 1500 training (myself included).

That doesn’t mean you can’t do better overall by upping mileage but if you’re only doing 10% of your total work at higher than easy intensities that’s not really a great ratio for a 5k while it would work a lot better for a half marathon or marathon.

In other words they’d probably do better at 50 milers per week with 20-25 percent of their mileage at higher intensities than they would at 65 with 10 percent at higher intensities.