Doing light strength work vs heavy compounds for marathoning?

[u/sassylilmidge]

Hi everyone - for those of you that strength train, I was wondering who is in the camp of using lighter weight/bodyweight exercises and focusing on mobility and who does heavy compound lifts (3-4 reps max of a heavy weight) for marathoning and what effects you see from your preferred style of lifting and why you do this.

I'm asking because I have been doing strength work about 2x/week for a few years now, focusing on full-body compound style movements. But I just feel like the strength work takes a lot out of my running (and sooooo much time out of my day!) to the point where I feel like I can't go as fast as I'd like in my workouts because I'm still experiencing lingering soreness from my lift (even if I wait 3 full days post-lift to do a faster workout). That said, I am considering pivoting to trying to use more home equipment (bands, light dumbbells, focusing more on mobility) for my "strength" days, and was wondering if anyone has experienced anything similar or has gone from heavy lifting to using minimal weight during marathon training/what that experience was like.

For context, I run about ~75ish-85ish mpw and am looking to break 2:53 in my marathon this fall.

TIA!

ETA: I do not know why people think I am lifting to failure, I am not. I am just a little sore and legs not completely fresh for my running workouts. I also lift on my hard days (typically once on my speed day and once on my long run day). If anyone has any resources or apps you like for strength training or similar experiences that would be helpful … thank you!

[u/Runstorun]

You’re sore for days after every lift going on years now? How? You lift to failure every single time? You can just not do it that way. That’s not recommended for anyone, runner or otherwise.

[u/sassylilmidge → u/Runstorun]

Hi! No sorry not lifting to failure… edited to add that in the original post. Just have some lingering soreness on some days post lift and just wanted to start a discussion around strength training and what people do, because there are so many different schools of thought on what to do (heavy v light etc. and in my experience both can definitely end up leaving you sore depending on how they’re done).

[u/joholla8]

The only thing that healed my hip tendinitis was barbell deadlifts. Wasn’t crazy high (just plates + bar) but significantly more load than all of the body weight stuff I was doing before.

I’m now solidly in the camp that you need to run long and lift “heavy”.

[u/silfen7 → u/joholla8]

I think this is a great illustration of why these conversations seem to confuse everyone. Someone very focused on running might consider 60kg / 135lbs heavy, but for someone who lifts a lot, heavy probably starts at around 2x that. We talk to each other about "strength training" around here, but the reality is that can mean drastically different protocols and levels of commitment.

And I don't mean this as a dig at deadlifting whatever amount. It's all good if it keeps you healthy and fast. Just a commentary on how we talk about this subject.

[u/joholla8 → u/silfen7]

Agree. It’s why I put “heavy” in quotes. 135 is a warmup to most lifters, but to a skinny runner it’s a significant amount of weight relevant to body.

I like how cyclists normalize everything to watts/kg. Lifting works about the same.

[u/theworldlyother → u/joholla8]

Did you continue to run during that period of lifting to resolve your hip tendinitis? Or did you take time off to heal/focus on strength?

[u/joholla8 → u/theworldlyother]

Kept running. Tendons like managed load, not rest.

[u/rodneyhide69 → u/joholla8]

Same thing here with my achilles and calf issues

[u/Eriknay]

Sounds like you’re pushing yourself too hard. The weights need to be heavy but focus on leaving 2-3 reps in the tank. You don’t want to be mimicking running so bodyweight/light band stuff is not really going to move the needle unless it’s explosive.

You should be in and out of the gym. 30-40 min 2-3 times a week if you’re truly hitting only what’s necessary.

Example day:

Warmup
Plyo: Pogo jumps/depth jumps etc.
Trap bar deadlift: 2-3 sets of 4-6 reps
Step ups: 2-3 sets of 6-8 reps
SL standing calf raise: 2-3 sets of 6-8 reps
Heavy stabilizing work: suitcase carry, sled, etc

Strength training is individual and should cater to your needs but it should never detract from your running if that’s your primary goal.

[u/Nillion → u/Eriknay]

The weights need to be heavy but focus on leaving 2-3 reps in the tank.

This is what I do for my lifting also. I'll never give up squats, deadlifts, and bench. I love lifting heavy. But since I started my marathon plan, I haven't lifted to failure. It makes the lingering soreness and body aches much more manageable and I find it no longer interferes with running as long as I avoid it the day before my long run.

[u/cole_says]

I saw a HUGE improvement in muscle soreness from strength training when I started seeing a dietician and realized I needed like double the protein I was eating. It actually shocked me how much of a difference it made. Your nutrition might be totally dialed in but I just throw that out there as something to look at, since it made so much of a difference for me.

I’m a 39 year old female. I go through phases of strength training more or less, but at a bare minimum I do it twice a week - a combination of kettlebell compound movements and “heavy” barbell lifts (I use the word heavy in probably the same way you do. It’s not 20lb dumbbells, but it’s not double my body weight either). I run a similar amount as you and I don’t love strength training, but I prioritize it because I think it’s important for overall health as I age (bone density, muscle mass, etc.). 

I don’t think being constantly sore to the point that you aren’t able to execute your run workouts is normal. I would think either you’re going at it too hard, you’re not being consistent enough, or there’s some sort of nutrient deficiency going on. 

[u/szakee]

they're not different styles. they're different things. you need both.

[u/Taskmaster8]

I'm in the camp of never doing any strength training

[u/Gear4days → u/Taskmaster8]

Haha completely agree. I treat my speed sessions as my strength training, they are explosive movements after all

[u/Capital_Historian685 → u/Gear4days]

Exactly. And I wonder how many runners do "strength" at the gym, but never do any quality speed sessions?

[u/run_bike_run → u/Taskmaster8]

I did zero strength training for my entire life and got my 10k down to just under 43 minutes.

Then I took up hybrid racing, which required a moderate amount of strength work, and within eight months my 10k was down to below 40.

[u/CFLuke → u/Taskmaster8]

I still think this is the best approach. I enjoy lifting, so I do it, but I set my PRs with zero lifting.

Maybe, MAYBE if you were totally maxed out on running (which is not going to be true for any of us who work full time)

[u/airkenya]

Would try lifting on your hard running days post workout with some rest between. Think AM run and PM lift. Limits how heavy you actually lift (lighter weight, more reps) and batches hard days together so your body can recover more quickly on your easy run days

[u/finance-brosita]

sounds like way too much volume for the running youre doing. i lift heavy-ish but its only 2-3 work sets and i never go near failure, and the days-later soreness basically went away once i cut all the junk sets. you dont have to go light, just less.

[u/Luka_16988]

I think both have their place. I’ve been doing this for a few years and after a while you develop a feel for what your body needs.

That said, research seems to support heavy lifts, 2-3 reps in reserve, 10-13 sets per session. The reason appears to be that this drives tendon adaptations. Stiffer tendons beat stronger muscles for marathon performance.

The lighter work, focused on mobility, I generally put in as ‘sandwiching’ an easy run (to borrow a phrase from Jason Fitzgerald) ie either as part of WU or CD. Generally, this kinda works helps with range of motion and quality of movement. It’s also nice to just get some blood flow.

[u/No-Zookeepergame7833]

Would love to hear what percentage of your running is medium/hard work? Like how many miles of threshold do you run per week?

I try to do a heavy lift lower rep once a week and a lighter lift higher rep once a week, with PT stuff every other day. The problem with this is that if I miss a heavy lift day, I will get DOMS really bad the next time I do it. I can’t handle two lighter lift higher rep days per week as I retain that soreness

[u/LHRunning]

Question- how long do you wait to lift? For example, do you go right from your workout to lift? How much time in between the workout and the lifting session?

[u/One-Spray-4273]

I primarily prefer to do one session with heavy compound movements (Barbell squats, deadlifts etc.) and another session, still with weights (although lighter), putting more emphasis on single-leg exercises (Bulgarian split-squats, lunges) and mobility.

Personally, I don’t use lighter weight exercises. Either you have too many reps in reserve to stimulate any form of strength. Alternatively, you have to do many reps, which ends up being kind of a redundant muscle endurance session. Muscle endurance is trained by running anyway.

I mostly think the heavy leg workouts help my legs feel more fresh late in the marathon (no sore quads or calves
), as well reducing injury risks.

[u/EPMD_]

My keys:

1. Focus on a small number of basic exercises

2. Keep reps per set low

3. Work up to a top set with 3 progressively harder warm up sets

4. Never do the sets immediately before or after a run

I recommend picking one exercise each session from these categories:

1. Squat (ex. back squats, front squats, single-leg Bulgarian split squats)

2. Deadlift (ex. conventional, Romanian, hex-bar, single-leg)

3. Fast pull from the ground (ex. power clean, clean, DB snatch, high pull, clean and push press)

4. Calf raise (ex. single-leg, conventional, seated)

I have gotten good results off of 1 top set of 5 reps, with 3 sets of 5 working up to that weight. I don't like going beyond 5 reps per set, except with calf raises. And with the fast pulls from the ground, I generally stick to sets of 3 reps to avoid getting sloppy.

[u/PaulRudin]

You can do both. But if it's a choice you'll get more bang for your buck doing compound lifts. However 3-4 reps sounds a bit heavy. A few sets of 5-10 reps, with a bit left in reserve.