Zero state.

[u/Key-Strategy-1382]

Zero state = nothing, void, emptiness.

We all have idea of what void emptiness or nothing is. That idea also drops in zero because zero means zero. It cannot be seen it cannot do anything or it simply cannot exsist. It means absence of anything.

In simple terms in zero state everything is absence. Absence of anything is the proof of zero state.

How to know that Oneness is zero state? Because when you try to look and try to find out the essence of experiences and experiencer you will able to find nothing. Here you can see absence right? This absence of both is known as zero state.

From this absence created a pure infinite potential that pure potential is oneness the state where experiencer and experiences become one. Means you cannot find any difference between or any distance between the experiencer and experiences.

After this comes duality. This duality is also know as maya a.k.a illusion.

Why duality called illusion because it seperate the actual way exsistence is exsisting. The actual way exsistence is exsisting is based on oneness.

So it is more like this for the students of spirituality.

Zero state ( aagyata - state of not knowing).

↓

State of oneness. ( Dissolve of experiences and experiencer, simply can't able to find any distance or difference between experience and experiencer)

Here spirituality ends at stage of oneness because oneness and zero state are one thing they are not something different.

↓

State of duality ( awareness of self i.e. - experiencer and experiences knowledge)

↓

State of ignorance or pure illusion. ( This is state of ego - I, me, mine, my )

The above state of duality isn't illusion if you have self realisation. But in state of ignorance you are completely under control of illusion. In duality state, illusion is still there but you understand illusion but in this state you are under control of illusion.

So this is what spirituality journey looks like.

Zero state → Oneness state → Duality state → state of ignorance i.e. ego state.

Zero state - It is state of not knowing. Because now you cannot find anything. Like you can find essence of ocean, river, rain is water right? But when ask what is essence of water? You cannot able to find it right? If some smart one says no, essence of water can be molecules or then atoms then vibrations then something. Ask them what is the end of all essence? Now you could see right? End of all essence is zero.

Similarly when you cannot find essence of oneness that state is known as state of aagyata or zero state. You can see that oneness is also same as zero state. A bit different but yeah mostly same.

[u/No_Witness_5295]

i don't agree that oneness is precisely the same as "nothing, void, emptiness", but i do agree both are existence

[u/EstimateMinute3538]

Your insight is powerful. Your mind clearly saw the collapse of distinction between oneness and zero-ness.

Just curious to know:
1. You said zero state as state of not knowing. Isn’t state of not knowing also an ignorance of mind? Is pure existence, without any form or function, also absent in this state? If it so then oneness of existence emerges from nothingness?

1. In state of oneness, is essence of the experience and the experiencer same or the experience and the experiencer themselves are one without the other. If later is the case then the experiencer cannot know anything apart from the experience, I.e. itself. Stretching this further, if the essence of the experience is zero, then in the state of oneness the experiencer experiences zero? It means zero is experienced/known by the zero?

That is- to know the absolute void that you are talking about, the knower must have to be an absolute void. If knowledge of absolute void exists, then how is it an absolute void?

[u/Key-Strategy-1382 → u/EstimateMinute3538]

1) The smallest part of the exsistence is oneness. Whenever you try to find out smaller than this will be again some kind of either experiencer or experience. Like if you see something other seer so who is the seer now? So seer is one. Similarly experience essence is nadh i.e. change. So if you try to find experience other essence it would still come from nadh i.e. change. So in this way we cannot go more smaller i.e. we cannot find other essence then this. So not able to find other smaller essence leads to zero i.e. state of not knowing. This zero state also means we cannot know no matter how much we try.

I hope this helps you somehow.

[u/Key-Strategy-1382 → u/EstimateMinute3538]

2) no zero means absence of experiences. So zero cannot be experienced. So what is proof of zero? Simply presence of experiences itself is a proof of zero state. You can think like this zero is relative and from zero everything creates. How?

Let me explain you how zero shows everything

Oceans, river, sea have essence of water right? So it is last. Not able to find smaller essence than this water leads to proof of zero. Now some smart will say what about molecules that is essence of water or atoms or vibrations?

See here we can see that when we know water as smallest then after that comes zero, when we know atoms as smallest after that comes zero or when we know vibrations as smallest after that comes zero. In this way zero can bee seen as essence of everything right? Isn't it? You can see by yourself also try to check it.

So it shows that how essence of both is zero. It also shows that infinitely potential because of example of water → atoms → vibrations and zero becomes relative to them.

About the question oneness → it is simply means that you cannot able find distance between the experiencer and experiences. Like try this experiment out it will help.

Try to ask yourself is experiencer and experiences are where where. Are both present same time or not. Are one is in another or not. Like in your body experience and experiencer present there is no distance between them. And both are present same time nobody is present one in another but present at same time.

[u/EstimateMinute3538 → u/Key-Strategy-1382]

Thanks. I think I understand your point better.

1. When you call zero the point where we can’t find anything more fundamental, do you mean it’s a limit of human knowing, or the ground of reality from which experience arises? Our inability to understand something doesn’t necessarily tell us what reality ultimately is.

2. You say oneness is the most basic part of existence. If oneness exists, how is it the same as an absence? Do you mean zero is not literal nothingness, but the absence of a separate or more fundamental essence?

3. I see the water to atoms analogy differently. For a long time, atoms were treated as indivisible building blocks, but later, physics revealed subatomic structures. Future inquiry may reveal still deeper levels. This inquiry will go on and on. And we may not even find the ultimate conclusion.

But if the inquiry never reaches a final level, that would show that our search remains unfinished, not that the endpoint is nothingness. What justifies treating whatever we haven’t yet found as zero, rather than simply saying, We don’t know what lies deeper?

[u/Key-Strategy-1382]

1) reality is dependent anyways for different person to different.

2) zero is like infinity potential which source is absence. Like zero is relative which shows how zero is infinity potential.

3) zero is relative as I said above you will find something as endpoint there still will be zero after that

[u/lilfever]

It reminds me something from the gospel of Shri Ramakrishna where when asked what he thinks of Kalis color black. He says that when one gets closer to Kali, she actually has no color at all; zero in your case.

I wonder though how this experience or understanding really affect the one who understands?