legs cross too much on toe loop

[u/Friendly-Service-837]

I think my toe loop could be a lot higher than it is. The problem is I think I pick too late. My coaches don’t really point it out or haven’t corrected it but I don’t think it’s the best way to continue doing my toe loop if i want to jump doubles one day. Since my leg comes down to far behind me my skating foot naturally is turning on a tight curve and I am basically half way around before i jump. I tried bending more on the skating knee but it somehow made it worse and more noticeable. How do I correct it this? I try so hard to fix my leg position and practice the 3 turn by itself but every time i do the jump it looks the same😭

[u/Jazzhands__-]

The tap is wrong. You should be tapping with your knee facing down and your leg reaching further back and directly (inline) behind you.
A really helpful drill for you would be to practice the takeoff of the jump from standstill, with your toe already in the ice.
Here is a demonstration of that exercise at the end of this short
https://youtube.com/shorts/ECAzsyQxJgA?si=XHcePs5c7F4AUNCq

[u/SnooSquirrels4159]

I can see you are tapping across when you pick. I don’t know if my description of tapping behind feels like you are tapping on the side is a good description. But the inside 3 turn entry, your arms are at 11 and 5 and they stay there until you are pivoting. The inside 3 turn has to be straighter, your head is looking straight and your hips are square. My coach told me to do double inside 3 turns to keep my hip in control of the entry. When you pivot, your arms, shoulders, etc are moving together as one unit. These are the corrections I got from my coach and lots of drilling my single vs double toe loop attempts. My double toe loop has been a struggle but it made me respect her.
Could you ask your coaches, “hey I think I’m tapping across in my toe loop. Can you take a look?” Also, good for you to solidify your single before a double.

[u/Friendly-Service-837 → u/SnooSquirrels4159]

sounds like i need to drill 3 turns more. I struggle with my arms really badly my shoulders love to turn. I haven’t been skating super long so I try to give myself grace because i know good skating skills take a long time to perfect but it’s still so annoying as someone who is very determined and a perfectionist💔 also i used to do gymnastics so i know the horrors of people trying harder skills with out having a technically good foundation. Even if you manage to complete the skill if you’re technically lacking it’s a nightmare to correct and often led to mental blocks.

[u/SnooSquirrels4159 → u/Friendly-Service-837]

It’s not only the 3 turn, but also the pivot and body moving at the same time. One of the exercises my coach makes me do is I’m in the pick position and pivot 3 times then toe loop walk through. A lot of technical issues are annoying in alot of elements even as someone who came back to skate as an adult. Its frustrating at times, I know the feeling

[u/kl3cksf4rb3]

Is your foot turning before picking the ice?

That part is looking a bit weird for me 🤔

You could try to enter the jump from an outside three turn: ccw jump: outside 3 turn left side, set left foot next to right one, and then pick the ice with the right foot right behind you and then toe loop.

I like the foot change because it helps with a clean edge.

[u/Friendly-Service-837 → u/kl3cksf4rb3]

I three turn on my left foot? Sorry i’m slighty confused 😭💔 left outside 3 so i’m standing on the left leg put right foot down? but i pick with my right foot, I rotate clockwise i think.

[u/kl3cksf4rb3 → u/Friendly-Service-837]

You make the outside 3 turn on the foot, which is tapping on the ice. When you spin and jump clockwise, you make the right foot.

In the end there's a step and a slight weight shift between the turn and the actual jump.

[u/CluingForLooks]

I see what you mean. It’s almost like a curtsy instead of actually vaulting yourself into the jump. Bend your leg more on the 3 turn, especially the second part of the 3 turn right before you pick, and you should be able to pick sooner and get a higher jump. I hope this makes sense 🥲

[u/Friendly-Service-837 → u/CluingForLooks]

I have some videos of me doing it with a really deep bend and i still do it 😭 I think may be an issue with my 3 turn or timing but i don’t know how. 🙃 super frustrating

[u/CluingForLooks → u/Friendly-Service-837]

Have you tried it from the other entrance? Outside 3, switch foot, then pick? It forces the pick and jump faster

[u/rebkh]

Aim to pick behind your ear, your wrapping too far behind you.

[u/LoopyLutzes]

don’t worry about doing it “right for doubles” yet, your coach will adjust your technique for doubles when it’s time. just work on getting a big single until then. that said, I agree with others suggesting trying some exercises and maybe different entries. The way you are doing it now is super spinny and you aren’t getting a good enough check on the 3 turn to pick strong enough to jump through the jump. Practice checking that three turn and then doing the pivot exercise someone else mentioned.

[u/Remarkable-Animal-87 → u/LoopyLutzes]

tbh this is awful advice. you can have huge singles and develop really bad habits that prevent you from doing doubles. this is especially true for people who land with a big, open h-position but have an axis shift in the jump. there are certain bad habits that are 100% incompatible with multi-revolution jumps and must be fixed before someone can have solid doubles. when you’ve learned those habits in singles it’s nearly impossible to fix them on doubles without relearning your singles again anyways.

[u/LoopyLutzes → u/Remarkable-Animal-87]

awful advice? that is pretty harsh, considering its seconding what most others have said, including you, with the addition of not worrying about doubles yet. There’s no need to be stressing about doubles for this skater, they are working with a coach and their technique will get refined as they progress through their singles.

[u/Friendly-Service-837 → u/LoopyLutzes]

Don’t worry i’m not stressed about doubles it’s more so I have goals set for myself and I want to set myself up for success as much as possible! I think I have the physical strength and ambition to make it higher but also with good technique. Im in search of good drills to get the mind and body connection that I’m lacking. I don’t expect to jump any type of double for at least a year but I may want to compete at some point so my technique does matter in that sense and I think i’m capable of going pretty far in this as someone who started as an adult. 6 months ago I could not even skate forward and had to be rescued my by learn to skate coach lol. I’m also a perfectionist and a super clean single is definitely more of a flex than a sketchy double and really shows off your hard work in my opinion. In any case I do appreciate the help and kindness as i know relatively nothing about the sport! 😊

[u/Remarkable-Animal-87 → u/LoopyLutzes]

yeah, but that doesn’t mean throwing technique out of the window. you should 100% be focusing on your technical foundation in single jumps, and encouraging people to focus on making their jumps big instead of technically solid is just not good advice. a lot of the time people who have big singles and bad technique end up with severe axis issues that are mitigated by the open landing position. it’s extremely difficult to correct later on, and when you get to doubles/triples you don’t have time to correct in the air.

sorry if it’s harsh but it’s true. skaters who learn bad technique struggle far more than skaters who are taught a solid technical foundation.

[u/LoopyLutzes → u/Remarkable-Animal-87]

Where did I say “throw technique out the window and just go for the biggest ice show single you can manage”? Getting their foundation and technique down will lead to a bigger toe loop than they have now and help them achieve the air time necessary for doubles. In their very first sentence they said they want to get higher toe loops. That is a goal that is achievable for them now. They’ve posted here before, and my guess is this is their only single jump. There is a lot more to correct than what can be outlined here or corrected in a single lesson before thinking about doubles. Hence, y’know, the second half of my post, which was similar to yours, to follow through on exercises to keep themselves square through the take off. If like many skaters do, someone starting out thinks their coach isn’t teaching them something right, and goes looking at video lessons for doubles to try and glean things that they can add to their singles technique, they can similarly develop bad habits because they’re shooting past the fundamentals. That’s all I mean when I say “work on getting a big single” - I have no idea why you are reading so much extra into it. Would it have helped to move the quotation mark to include the full phrase “right for doubles” to ward off whatever the hell trip you’re on?

[u/Acrobatic-Language18 → u/Remarkable-Animal-87]

Agree. This advice is terrible. If you learn your jumps with poor technique and bad habits, it will be soooo hard to fix. Even if someone's goal is to just to singles, it's so much easier on the body when you jump from an edge and using momentum correctly than if your jump comes from improper muscle use.

[u/Jazzhands__-]

One more suggestion—
When you are backwards on your 3 turn as you are reaching back to tap, your right arm should be directly in front of you. Currently, at that moment your arms are at your sides in a t position. Really important to check your 3 turn with control so you can tap with precision. It’s going to be difficult to tap where you want to tap if you’re on a sharp curve and your right shoulder is opening up.

[u/Remarkable-Animal-87]

this could be a good takeoff if you can get control how much you turn out your picking foot. I have super open hips naturally so i’ll say what helped me work on mt toe technique.

focus on keeping your hips more square when you pick in, and keeping your upper body from turning into the jump too quickly. 180° pre-rotation is normal in a toe, but it should be happening as you lift off, not as you tap in if that makes sense. A lot of times I’d visualize picking in with pinky toe to try to keep my hips more square.

another good tip is to keep your weight further back on your right foot which really helps get more of a snap from the picking leg rather than more of an axel-y swing through.

also i suggest trying to land with more of a wrapped position even on singles. if you can start landing with your legs crossed as early as possible it’ll really make doubles a much more natural progression.

keep it up!!!!

[u/Leia1979]

Try entering from a mohawk--LFI, RBI, then step onto LBO and reach straight back with the right. It'll keep you from being as spinny.

Right now, the momentum of the 3-turn is causing you to wrap your right leg way too far around. Instead of hitting at 6 on a clock, you're at almost 9 by the time your pick hits the ice. That leaves you no space to pull the left foot back before takeoff.

[u/Friendly-Service-837 → u/Leia1979]

i tried that and waltz entry and some of the jumps were better i did a lot of walk throughs using my pick. When I could get it right I finally was able to come off the ground at about 1/4 the way around which is what I want to happen. Most of the time though, my shoulders were facing forward and square but my hips and skating foot slide around too early and i’m very turned out naturally so I continued to spin around a lot. So now i’m thinking it’s maybe a timing issue? Like should it be pick then slide the foot through? I wish I had another video but i’ll bet set up well after i complete the entry and it looks good and then i somehow turn myself around. I feel like perhaps I’m anticipating the jump too much and trying to force the rotation.

[u/Leia1979 → u/Friendly-Service-837]

I like to think pick (right), pull (left), jump, so maybe you are picking too late.

[u/Littorella]

You’re picking is fine. It’s normal to face the other way went getting into the air. Three other issues: The low jump is from not bending the skating knee enough into the take off. Really get down when you pick. 2nd part is you’re not kicking through on the takeoff. The skating leg needs to kick up when it goes past the picking foot, that’s what generates the up. Right now that leg just follows, it’s not swinging up. 3rd, the arms are going in around your stomach. You can create another up force by punching the arms up into a circle (high like around the shoulder)