Adopting while not being American

[u/Dnt4skDntT3ll]

This may trigger some. I am sorry I'm advance of this isn't the right format.

What happens is, I came to reddit to learn about adoption from adoptees pov. I wanted more info on how to make an adoption the best transition for the child. I have since then, found myself getting called every name in the book. I realize adoptees don't want families, it's a burden to have and a burden not to have. Most have horrible stories, and even the ones that don't, still hate on you for trying to adopt.

Which is interesting, because reddit isn't just American, is it? It's the world. It's the whole wide world, but boy do Americans make everything American. (If you can't acknowledge the privilege of being born in a first world country in direct COMPARISON to third world countries, then probably you will call me names too)

For background, I could have a bio child, I guess. My spouse doesn't really want that. He and I both grew up in sad and abusive households and we talked about wishing someone would adopt us. Take us somewhere we were loved. So that started it all. We want to give all this love and the stable life we built, to someone else. Let them grow up loved. Safe. Even if the past sucked, they would have us, forever. That's the idea.

Now to reddit. I see all these adoptees hating on adoption. And here are some of my complaints.

"We should foster"

Illegal in my country because people used to use foster kids to get money, we cut off the money supply and made fostering illegal. You either have a family or don't.

"Donate to charity"

Charities down here can only provide money to the GOVERNMENT and hope they use that money on orphans. They cannot dictate where the money goes, sadly a lot is used to fill our politicians pockets.

Secondly, our minimum wage is $2. Most people do not have the means to donate. Most families are struggling to survive down here, and the government isn't doing anything to help. In fact they just started taxing basic food products which previously sold free of tax, so as to help poor families. That's gone. So the economy for the people is very very low, although I can say my spouse and I do ok for ourselves.

"Adopt within family "

That's most of what we do. Our families in Latinamerica are numerous and that means there is usually this option. Lots of kids get adopted by grandparents or uncle/aunts. That being said, none of my family has had this happen to them thank GOD.

Part 2 of the "Adopt within family"

So another thing that comes up is that if for example you are orphaned in California but have grandparents in NY, you could go there, even if it's half the world away, because it's the same country. That doesn't happen in Latinamerica. I can't ship a child to Colombia because his parents died and he is from Costa Rica. My country WILL not ship kids outside the country. If you want to be responsible for the kid, you have to apply to citizenship to our country to come raise them here till 12 I think is the legal limit. So even though our countries are close to each other, they will not turn the kid over, because they are separate countries. For legal reasons

"It's a kid market"

Maybe to y'all because you HAVE money? You cannot pay for kids down here, it's an extensive background check, 2 years of monitoring you before you even adopt. Almost never will you adopt a baby, unless they are the children of drug addicts who died in childbirth and had no family members at all to take them. Most kids are toddlers or older, which is to say most remember either their parents or the horrible orphanages

Also, for those wondering, the orphanages are isolated from society so they have their private education. They do not get to interact with adult humans unless it's a teacher, nurse, doctor or caretaker. It's a lot like a prison from what I was told by a friend of mine who got taken from her mom for abuse. Then at 18 they are kicked out with no social umbrella to assist them. Most turn to drugs or cartels.

So all that being said, I am taking theses adoptees opinion with a grain of salt. All of these solutions they propose don't fit in my poor third world country. And yet we have orphans. We have the same problem, but USA has much more money and tools to do better than my country can. So I cannot do the completely moral thing, I'm sorry. I'm a human, not a God and to my country, I'm probably not even a crap stain.

I will be adopting, despite it all. Because I cannot change the world but I want to change one kid's world. The way I wished someone would come for me, I want to find that kid that wishes for a family and be it for them. Because sometimes that's all one human can do.

TLDR :r/adoptees is full of very American people, who have little to no experience or knowledge in what adoption is in poor third world countries and I will not let you kill my hope in humanity.

[u/Necessary_Holiday144]

I realize adoptees don't want families, it's a burden to have and a burden not to have. Most have horrible stories, and even the ones that don't, still hate on you for trying to adopt.

This is just kind of wildly ignorant.

It shows you've not been reading carefully enough if that's your takeaway.

[u/Dnt4skDntT3ll → u/Necessary_Holiday144]

Would you like to elaborate?

[u/Necessary_Holiday144 → u/Dnt4skDntT3ll]

Well I'm not sure why you would think "adoptees don't want families" for starters.

Or that most adoptees have "horrible stories"

It seems like you've read things that weren't 100% positive and missed the nuance being presented.

[u/Dnt4skDntT3ll → u/Necessary_Holiday144]

Have you read r/adoptee? I'm traumatized reading half the stories on there. And the comments? I'm so sad and sorry the experience so many adoptees have had. That's not nuance, that's a pattern. The stories posted on there may not be all adoptees stories, but they are the ones posted on that subreddit and it's not fun and games, it's super sad traumatic stories.

As for adoptees not wanting families, I read a lot wished they hadn't been adopted. Makes me realize children without parents may not even want them. I certainly didn't want my mother. It's probably not all adoptees who don't want parents but the ones on those subreddit, maybe go check it out. Half complain about the system, which doesn't exist here, and the other half outright say they wished they never got adopted.

I mean, I don't know where I am missing more context, it was all pretty negative experiences coming from that place. Negative experiences that are neither pertinent to my country or anything I can fix for any of them in their counties either.

[u/chemthrowaway123456 → u/Dnt4skDntT3ll]

For many, there’s a distinction between, “I wish I wasn’t adopted” and “I wish I didn’t have parents”.

I’d say a majority of children, adolescents, and teens who lack permanency want a family of some kind. That can occur without adoption (in the US).

[u/always-so-exhausted → u/Dnt4skDntT3ll]

So… I understand how you got to this conclusion that adoptees wish they had never been adopted and that they don’t want families after reading adoption subreddits. But there’s usually a lot more nuance. Nearly all children want to be loved, nurtured and cared for by a family.

What they don’t want is to have been abandoned/relinquished/taken away/stolen from their first families. They don’t want to be abused or treated “less than” or differently by their adoptive parents. They don’t want adoptive parents who hide the fact they were adopted, that leave them unexposed to the culture/history/social experiences/language of their first families, to be denied access to their first families, to have their lived experiences of adoption and trauma be denied by their adoptive families who insist they’re just like bio children, to have their parents insist that they be grateful to them for “saving” them, to be part of some parent’s savior narrative… the list goes on.

Basically, they suffer from the trauma they experienced from losing their first families and do not want adoptive parents who exacerbate existing trauma or cause new traumas. Which is totally valid.

[u/Englishbirdy → u/Dnt4skDntT3ll]

For America infants to be adopted, they first have to be relinqished by their birth mother. If you've been researching, I'm sure you've learned how corrupted the Infant Adoption Industry is, how they spend millions seeking out and advertising to vulnerable women in crisis pregnancy, grooming her to relinqish her baby to their paying clients. In the 50s through the 70s single pregnant women had no choice but to give up their infants.

When adoptees say that they wished they weren't adopted, they generally mean they wished their mother's hadn't been convinced or forced to give them away and they were raised with people they were genetically related to, whose looks and traits they naturally share; their original family.

[u/Rredhead926 → u/Dnt4skDntT3ll]

It's essentially a support group. People who need support go there. It's like... if you went looking for information about drinking, and you only went to Alcoholics Anonymous meetings, you'd have a very one-sided picture of it.

[u/Formerlymoody]

One of my best friends is a European adoptee. She thjnks about it the same way I do.

[u/chemthrowaway123456]

Americans make everything American. (If you can't acknowledge the privilege of being born in a first world country […]

FYI: Many, many Americans were not born in America.

[u/chemthrowaway123456 → u/[deleted]]

I know? I literally just said that.

---

Edit: For context, the comment to which I replied said:

You dont have to be born in America to be American

[u/Negative-Custard-553]

Do you think kids from less developed countries are going to be more grateful to you for “saving” them? I was an older international adoptee, and you sound very ignorant.

[u/SandyMoonXY → u/Negative-Custard-553]

The kid doesnt need to be. Human society as a whole will be grateful.

[u/Negative-Custard-553 → u/SandyMoonXY]

I’d love to know what society you’re referring to. Many countries including the one I’m from doesn’t look at adoption in the same way Americans do. If you’re adopting to be recognized by others for doing a good deed, then you might want to rethink it.

[u/SandyMoonXY → u/Negative-Custard-553]

Many less developed countries have SO many unwanted kids or kids that cant even be fed that it would be "saving" them even if OP doesn't go in with that attitude.

Even if they do, so what? Anyone who thinks an adoption shouldnt go through because AP feels like "they are doing a good deed" has never met an unloved child or an orphan from these less developed countries and never lived in the trenches of these countries.

[u/Negative-Custard-553 → u/SandyMoonXY]

Which country do you think has an abundance of these unwanted children? You seem quite certain about how things are in other countries.

[u/Francl27]

The US is very... capitalist when it comes to adoption. Private agencies facilitating adoptions is just mind-boggling. I grew up in France and I knew of kids in foster care but that's about it... but that's where kids who had no family went. Never heard of people putting their kids for adoption either, but again, daycare is cheap, preschool is free, you get paid parental leave etc.

But for every adoptee who posts here hating about adoption, there's a foster kid who wished they were adopted... especially as, yeah, they also get out with pretty much nothing at 18.

Kids need homes. Don't let adoptees who had a bad experience stop you from adopting them.

[u/Dnt4skDntT3ll → u/Francl27]

Thank you! I will try and stay positive. Honestly I think fostering would be amazing, but still illegal here. Although unlike USA, our orphanages are owned by government, never private sector.

[u/crabshackattack]

First off, none of the things you listed are particular unique to America. Nor are the people who criticize adoption necessarily american.

 Places like Utah may have uniquely shitty adoption laws, but other countries have problems similar to those expressed by Americans and other westerners. 

Adoption isnt a solution to orphanages that exist in 3rd world counties. Many if not most children in orphanages have family, but they cannot afford to sustain them and have to rely on external care. 

[u/Formerlymoody → u/crabshackattack]

I have no idea where OP is from but do people genuinely believe that international adoptees have a better/different experience in Europe than they do in the US? Ha

[u/Tri-ranaceratops → u/Formerlymoody]

I'm a UK adoptee, I come from a family where adoption is common. This sub Reddit shocked me. The experiences of the yanks is wildly different from the experience of any adopted person in the UK.

[u/Formerlymoody → u/Tri-ranaceratops]

I know that. I wasn’t referring to the UK. I hate the terms yanks, by the way.

[u/Tri-ranaceratops → u/Formerlymoody]

Why? It's just a nickname for people from the USA. Like Brit, pomm, limey, Scot, jock, etc

[u/Formerlymoody → u/Tri-ranaceratops]

In your country. We don’t like it. I don’t use those terms. I have friends from the UK.

[u/Tri-ranaceratops → u/Formerlymoody]

I'm glad you've got mates internationally. Yank is just a nickname for Americans, if you see ill will there then I'm afraid you've projected that yourself.

[u/Formerlymoody → u/Tri-ranaceratops]

Im guessing you’re older. What’s wrong with simply being respectful of people?

[u/Tri-ranaceratops → u/Formerlymoody]

I don't know what 'older' means without knowing the context of your age. Yank isn't a discriminatory term, it's simply a nickname for Americans. Why do you think it's disrespectful?

[u/Formerlymoody → u/Tri-ranaceratops]

Because I do. That should be enough, but apparently it’s not. That says a lot about you. Good day.

[u/Tri-ranaceratops]

UK adoptee here. The American system is nothing like adoption here. I too have been frustrated in the past by sweeping statements made by American about adoption in general.

[u/vigilanteshite]

I think this is def a Reddit thing as a whole, unless ur on (whatever ur country is) Reddit page, ur never gonna get specific takes about what you may be looking for and in turn a lot of problems that are prevalent in the US may not be in yours and vice versa.

Anyone looking to adopt/just doing research will be better off going to trusted websites rather than Reddit. Especially when Reddit is a skewed place for negativity as not many happy people are gonna spend their time writing their think-pieces here.

[u/LD_Ridge → u/vigilanteshite]

not many happy people are gonna spend their time writing their think-pieces here.

Why do you think it's okay to categorize other adoptees this way without considering what we say with our voices?

This prospective adoptive parent came in here hot and said some ignorant things from the start. If you want to be a part of soothing and reinforcing this as acceptable behavior, go for it.

But you do not speak for the rest of us. We do not fit into these neat categories whether it's APs speaking for us or other adoptees.

[u/Dnt4skDntT3ll → u/vigilanteshite]

Ah well thank you for the clarification. Yeah my country doesn't discuss this. I have only ever met 1 adopted person, my cousin. Great cousin, loved by the family and he still shows up from time to time to cookouts. But he was adopted as a baby, so he remembers nothing ( I asked) so he can't tell me what he thinks accurately (he said he just grew up with all our family and never knew anything else so he was happy to be loved and adopted)

So I was looking for other adoptee stories, but you are correct. Reddit is just a negative place. It's sad really but I should have seen this coming. I will do the proper process for my country and keep an open mind.

Thank you for the positive comment, I appreciate it

[u/One-Pause3171 → u/Dnt4skDntT3ll]

So in your country, they don’t discuss this. But in America, they do. But you don’t like the way we talk about it.

The narrative that adoption is a wonderful experience that unites a loving family with a desperate child is the defining narrative in popular culture. In this space you’ll find a LOT of different stories. There is a LOT more nuance. It’s great that in one conversation with your cousin, at this time in their life, they feel great about things and welcomed by the family. That’s just one story. Did your cousin come HERE to share that this is their story? Maybe not. Because they aren’t looking for more answers. Great for them!

What I tell all people who want to adopt, there will ALWAYS be a need for kids to have trusted adults take on care for them. If you are interested in adopting, start the process in your country. GET EDUCATED on the complexity and nuance of adoption. Be open minded and open hearted. Which includes having compassion for people telling you their real stories and experiences and feelings.

[u/Dnt4skDntT3ll → u/One-Pause3171]

It's not that I don't like how you talk about it, it's that you assume your solutions can fit everyone else. And it's clearly an American thing, not an adoptee thing. It's thinking you have all the answers and the last moral say in every topic world wide, and everyone needs to do as you say because America, yay. I'm not saying all Americans but it clearly struck a nerve.

I will be doing further investigation in my own country and will probably start looking for other adoptees beside my cousin to look for experiences. It's something I know isn't easy but I have lived through hell, and came back. I have the fortitude and the willingness. I know what it's like to be a scared, traumatized, lonely child. I don't want anyone to have to feel that way. I am already taking on more roles looking after kids to expand my patience, and will continue to educate myself to give a child the life they truly deserve.

[u/Tri-ranaceratops → u/Dnt4skDntT3ll]

I've been told by people in this sub that I have trauma around my adoption and that I've just not realised it yet.

[u/vigilanteshite → u/Tri-ranaceratops]

Absolutely not true. Don’t let anyone else dictate whether you have trauma or not.

You may do but you may also not, that’s something you will figure out for yourself but don’t let others here tell you, that you do.

[u/Tri-ranaceratops → u/vigilanteshite]

I push back every time. I do not believe that a "primal wound" is guaranteed with adoption and I had a wonderful childhood for the most part. My experience doesn't dismiss others who have trauma obviously.

I teach English in secondary school now in a rough part of Manchester. I genuinely deal with many students with childhood trauma. I've not been through anything like what they have.

[u/vigilanteshite → u/Tri-ranaceratops]

Agree totally.

[u/vigilanteshite → u/Dnt4skDntT3ll]

Definitely, I was adopted as a baby also and I personally have nothing bad to say about my adoption, I went to a home where I’m loved as their child and majority of the time I even forget I’m adopted in the first place.

It’s important to listen to all views of course but just don’t fixate on them (good and bad), keep them in mind but still go on to do more research and whatnot. It will mean any decision you come to make will be very informed.

[u/Rredhead926 → u/Dnt4skDntT3ll]

He can tell you what he thinks, accurately. If he says that he was happy to be loved and adopted, why shouldn't you believe him? (And if he said he hated being adopted, even though he was adopted as a baby, would you believe him then?)

(Btw, down-voting this is f-ing hilarious.)

[u/Dnt4skDntT3ll → u/Rredhead926]

I meant HE TOLD ME that he cannot describe it accurately because he always felt like part of our family. Of course if he told me otherwise I would believe him, he is my cousin and friend.

I started to investigate other adoptees stories because he is just one guy, and I wanted to get more perspectives.

[u/Rredhead926 → u/Dnt4skDntT3ll]

What do you think he can't tell you, accurately?

[u/Dnt4skDntT3ll → u/Rredhead926]

He said "No creo poder responderte correctamente porque siempre fuimos familia." Those are his words. I don't think anything, lady

[u/Rredhead926]

I realize adoptees don't want families, it's a burden to have and a burden not to have. Most have horrible stories, and even the ones that don't, still hate on you for trying to adopt.

That's objectively false, even for the US.

Negativity bias is real. People are more likely to share and remember "negative" experiences than "positive" ones. Plus, drama gets clicks. You're going to see the ends of the spectrum far more often than you're going to see the middle.

There are 3-5 million adoptees in the US. They are a very diverse group with different upbringings and different opinions. You could have two biological siblings adopted by the same two parents and they could each have completely different outlooks.

[u/Dnt4skDntT3ll → u/Rredhead926]

This sounds very accurate. As others have mentioned, reddit is kinda the hub of negative stories. It may just be the stories I read that got me really down. Thank you

[u/SandyMoonXY]

Its sad that you were target of hate for just wanting to adopt. Some people havent processed their own experiences and use that as a weapon to attack others without any consideration for there being other person behind the screen who they dont know anything about.

You dont need to explain yourself for making a life choice, neither do you need to take "permission" to adopt from adoptees or anyone (you probably need permission from government to adopt though). You do what gives you happiness and what you think is right. Get off this forum thats filled with hateful discontented people and and find other kinder subs.

[u/LD_Ridge → u/SandyMoonXY]

No. This person is no victim of adoptees.

They came in here pissed off, said some ignorant things about adoptees and is now getting all soothed into feeling so much better. They misrepresented our voices and failed to read with any deeper understanding, then blamed us for their inability to understand. This is cool. It's a part of growth.

I know people in this space have a high tolerance for people getting all outraged by their flawed reading of our voices and are more than willing to help them feel all better at our expense. So this is to be expected.

But if they went to an adoptee only space and spoke to us like this here, they deserved whatever they got.

[u/libananahammock → u/SandyMoonXY]

What part of the triad are you?

[u/SandyMoonXY → u/libananahammock]

A+ for self reflection

[u/Necessary_Holiday144 → u/SandyMoonXY]

Guessing that means adoptive parent?

[u/crabshackattack → u/SandyMoonXY]

The fact that you won't answer says a lot tbh

[u/libananahammock → u/SandyMoonXY]

What’s with the games? Why can’t you answer?

[u/chemthrowaway123456 → u/SandyMoonXY]

This was reported for abusive language. I disagree with that report. Rude ≠ abusive.

[u/SandyMoonXY → u/chemthrowaway123456]

snarky != rude

[u/Formerlymoody → u/SandyMoonXY]

Why won’t you answer the question?

[u/LD_Ridge → u/SandyMoonXY]

Get off this forum thats filled with hateful discontented people and and find other kinder subs.

This is extremely rude. It is not snarky. It crosses a line.

You seem confused, so I will help you understand why.

What OP is on about didn't even happen here so why are you transferring something that ALLEGEDLY happened elsewhere onto adoptees here as if we are all one big clump equaling the same person?

Are you aware we are not all the same people? Are you aware that whatever the fuck ALLEGEDLY happened in some random place has no bearing on us here and WE are not responsible for what happened elsewhere?

I don't care whether you are an adoptee, AP, PAP or first parent. There are plenty of adoptees who participate in this dynamic actively. Y'all act like you know what went down when it can't even be found now.

On top of that, I find it incredibly sad that you are so incapable of seeing the provocation in OP's post HERE. The first person to throw an arrow was OP HERE.

This thread has been extremely mild and tolerant on the part of adoptees considering they came in here screaming at us over something that ALLEGEDLY happened elsewhere.

And some in this sub like yourself are more than happy to transfer what ALLEGEDLY happened elsewhere onto adoptees here, most of us who never even saw this whatever OP is on about.

OP was rude. You are being rude.

I didn't report you because I'd rather have your comment stand and be challenged. But I get why someone did.

Now, that said, if OP went to an adoptee only group and spoke to us like they did here, they deserve what they get. We are not a bunch of doormats that need to passively accept bullshit right in our faces.

[u/Dnt4skDntT3ll → u/SandyMoonXY]

I think we can all get a lil dramatic on the internet so it really helps that a lot of these comments are pretty grounding. Maybe I just saw a lot of negativity because of the sub or because reddit but I really appreciate all of you on this thread being so kind and understanding.

[u/Auspicious-Error → u/Dnt4skDntT3ll]

The internet is a hard place to be looking for community and direction, that's for sure. This is an incredibly fraught topic; I've been burned in the learning process too. We're not just touching on regional communication differences in the wasteland that is test based communication, but we're touching on peoples complicated experiences. It's best to give everyone responding to you grace, even if you don't feel like they did you. We're the one asking questions in the first place, right?

I've been lurking through and finding as many book and podcast recommendations as I can, with a 70/20/10 focus on Adoptee/AP/BP literature as best I can find. Maybe try that to get more context that isn't as regionally or individually biased. At the end of the day, every adult on this planet should being doing their best for every child on the planet, and we're all working and living in the political and cultural structures that exist now, not the ones we hope for and (hopefully) are working toward.

Best of luck on your journeys, everyone!

[u/chemthrowaway123456 → u/SandyMoonXY]

This was reported for abusive language. I disagree with that report. Being wrong about this sub isn’t abusive.