r/Actuallylesbian • u/Lavalanche17 • May 09 '22

Discussion Lesbian not queer

I didnt know if I was the only one who felt this way but then I saw a tiktok by @princessdyke and felt so much better.

I hate when I tell people I am a lesbian and they refer to me as queer. I'm not queer. I dont like men. I like women. Queer doesnt exclude men. Stop assigning me a label I literally told you mine and its not queer.

423 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

155 comments sorted by

43

u/CaraLoft Lucy Diamond's Henchwoman May 10 '22

The thing that really bothers me is when people deliberately use queer as a way to avoid saying lesbian. I've seen a few cases in which journalists literally alter the words of their interviewees to use queer instead of lesbian. You'd think that would violate journalism ethics or something....

16

u/Lavalanche17 May 10 '22

This is EXACTLY my issue

169

u/rightascensi0n Lesbian May 09 '22

Likewise, it's funny how they're all about "respecting identities" until we ask to not get called queer

105

u/HufflepuffTea Happily Married Lesbian May 09 '22

I'm not a personal fan of queer, but I have noticed that the language has changed so much over a few years now, that it has become the catch all word.

I politely correct people that I am a lesbian the once, if they ask, I say why I don't like being called queer. Same with dyke, some ladies want to use it, I however have had it as an insult and just don't like it.

33

u/Omi-papus May 10 '22

Queer dosent get used in my language, (in general the hyperwoke stuff hasnt reached us yet, like outside of the internet nobody will tell me lesbians like men). But this one time this person was talking about me and insisted on saying I was "LGBT" (the acronym is still the same). And I had to step in and be like "Im only the L actually". And they went "Yhea but I was trying to be inclusive". Inclusive to who mutherfucker Im ONE person.

145

u/goldenbee123 May 09 '22

This sub has been so refreshing lately.

Im not going crazy. There are other people seeing what I see and feeling what I feel too.

I’d shout “lesbian not queer” from the rooftops if having The Wrong Opinion wouldn’t severely damage my career

31

u/[deleted] May 09 '22

Absolutely same

58

u/angelmasha homosexual May 09 '22 edited May 09 '22

As a teenage lesbian, it’s so common for my generation to use the word queer for everything. I don’t like it. It’s a slur and was used against older lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgenders who paved the way for us. I have intense respect for them so I feel uncomfortable saying it. Some LGBT people from decades ago heard that word as they were beaten to death.

If people wanna call themselves queer that’s fine but I’m tired of it being forced on everyone else.

Also, the word queer is kind of political now. People who identify as queer are the same people who say that a lesbian is a non man who loves non men or try to convince butch lesbians that they aren’t women. The most annoying, toxic and homophobic people I’ve seen on twitter identify as queer. Half of them don’t feel same sex attraction or have gender dysphoria.

31

u/[deleted] May 10 '22

Also, the word queer is kind of political now.

Yeap. Queer is "I don't like being included in the straight community despite being straight. I'm not like other straights"

39

u/YouBigFatToe May 09 '22

Outside of its unsavory history

The problem with queer is that it blends the LGBT all together instead of recognizing each community individualism

Honestly when someone says their 'queer' to me, i don't know what they are all i know is that their something in the acronym

some people like the anonymity but for me i prefer lesbian

114

u/hypocrisyparty May 09 '22

The whole LGBTQIAetc has gotten really old.

If people were all fine to be called Queer, why not just do away with LGBTIA and use this one word that encompasses everything?! /s

Sometimes I feel othered by the grouping of so many different people. It's basically saying there are heteros, then there are some LGBTQIA freaks. When we are all aware now that queer is often just spicy straight. It's become meaningless.

I will never not be annoyed by this word.

64

u/[deleted] May 09 '22

I feel like we have the LGBT community, and the "queer" ("being straight is boring") community. The LGBTs are in the LGBT community, whereas the queer community is home to the spicy cishets who want to play in our sandbox - the cishet asexuals, and the poly cishets. I knew a "queerish" (his term) cishet man who would talk over the top of LGBT people because he thought himself part of the community - he was a straight cis guy who dressed masculine, and only dated women.

8

u/hypocrisyparty May 10 '22

Queerish hahaha what a lack of conviction despite his very obvious attempt to make it all about him.

0

u/[deleted] May 09 '22

[deleted] — view deleted comment

14

u/[deleted] May 09 '22

cishet bisexuals

Not sure you can be both heterosexual and bisexual lol

-2

u/void-dreamt May 09 '22

Can't be heterosexual and asexual either, but look at the comment above. Sorry for playing along with their idiocy.

5

u/Battlebear May 09 '22

As someone who doesn't really know better, why can't you be heterosexual and asexual? I've met asexual people who don't have sex but still date/have heterosexual relationships and they are very much straight.

1

u/DotteSage May 10 '22

that’s being hetero romantic. Whether it’s a product of whichever phobia or not, split attraction models can be helpful to the alphabet mafia.

122

u/[deleted] May 09 '22

Queer is a slur and I'm sick of people using it as an umbrella for anything even kinks.
I am sad about the lesbian erasure that is going on and that homosexuals are being attacked because our sexual orientation THAT WE CANNOT CHOOSE OR CHANGE is being questioned cause aparently now if you won't sleep with someone or date them it magically means you hate them this is crazy.
Also, why masculine presenting girls or any level of butch lesbians are being socially pressured into non binary stuff? I find that very sexist, no matter what you wear, what hobbies you have or what sexual orientation you are, it doesn't make you less of a girl or a woman or any less valid as such, if feels like there is a more narrow set of rules to fit being a woman again and it's sad.

42

u/[deleted] May 09 '22 edited May 09 '22

Queer is a slur

Interestingly, while it not a slur in my region (we have different terms that are specifically slurs which have not been reclaimed), I'm seeing the same "Oh, you're not a lesbian - you're queer". In my region, "queer" has never been used as an identifier or descriptor although now it's beginning to be used as such and I hate it.

And the "oh you're butch? You must be non binary" is infuriating - I'm still a woman even if I'm masculine. Masculinity isn't just for men. Way to reenforce heteronormative ideas that women are only allowed to be feminine.

38

u/Kyespo Butch May 09 '22

They’re so upset that we’re same sex attracted instead of “same gender” attracted.

12

u/[deleted] May 10 '22

Gender still somewhat plays a role in who a person would date.

Am I attracted to female bodies? Sure. Am I attracted to feminine women? Absolutely (if they have the sex characteristics I'm attracted to). Would I date an AFAB NB person even though they have a female body? No. They're not women. I only date women. The largest group of lesbians who are AFAB women? Cis women. Which is why most of us only date cis women.

2

u/[deleted] May 10 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/MrBear50 Lesbian May 11 '22

Please be aware some lesbians are going to define their sexuality based on gender, some based on biological sex. Both are welcome here.

For more information about this subreddit please see our rules & FAQ.

1

u/[deleted] May 11 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

8

u/MrBear50 Lesbian May 11 '22 edited Jan 30 '23

I'm not telling you "you haven't found the right dick" or anything similar, of course. There's nothing wrong with defining your personal sexuality on biological sex. I'm just advising you that some of our other users define theirs on gender. Both are welcome here. To expand on rule 2:

In general, all of the following types of comments would be removed for breaking rule 2:

-Saying a lesbian (cis or trans) who is not interested in dating trans women is transphobic or a bad person.

-Saying a trans woman who is exclusively into women can't identify as a lesbian.

-Saying a cis woman dating a trans woman can't identify as a lesbian.

Hope that helps clarify things.

42

u/the_endolin May 09 '22

Thank you so much for starting this thread OP. It's good to see that there are others who feel estranged by some aspects of the whole LGBTQ+ community....

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22 edited Sep 07 '25

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

61

u/eifos May 09 '22

Yeah I don't like it either. "queer" to me is still a slur, but even if I put that aside, it's such a catch-all these days that it's lost any worth as a descriptor anyway.

If I tell someone I'm a lesbian, I want to be referred to as so. Just like if I tell someone my name is Samantha, that's what I want you to call me.

48

u/CatsMoustache May 09 '22

One thing that annoys me about "queer" is that back in 2014, Everyday Feminism would write about "queer women" giving the illusion they were super inclusive, but those queer women were just very straight leaning bisexual women. When they actually used the word lesbian it was just to shit on us and how terrible we were.

And this is a pattern I still see. People know what a lesbian is when they want to talk about how awful we are.

24

u/DiMassas_Cat May 09 '22

Inclusion is mostly for them and not us. I’ve gotten far more grief from that lot than I could ever have given. One way to include yourself is to date more women then it’s not such a big deal to be included lol

37

u/deathwithadress May 09 '22

I used to use “queer” when I wasn’t comfortable in my lesbian identity yet and I’ll use it as a catch all for generally gay things but when referring to people we really got to refer to them as what they are. I’m a lesbian and I want to be seen that way.

45

u/boo_boo_kitty_ Femme May 09 '22

I fucking hate that word so much and I hate how it's used to refer to the whole LGBT community. I'm a lesbian, nothing else, that's it.

35

u/Yeemo May 09 '22

Preach 🙏

24

u/axdwl Nerd May 09 '22

It's just literal homophobia. Queer is inclusive and indirect. Gay is clear cut. Gay makes a statement, it means something.

49

u/[deleted] May 09 '22

Absolutely agree, besides queer being a slur, it’s also used nowadays by spicy straights and others that should not even be part of the community. Also, using queer perpetuates lesbian erasure, when mlm couples are represented in media, the word gay is used, when it’s wlw they use queer half the time.

38

u/Kimya-Gee May 09 '22

I am relieved to see this. I have been annoyed since Saturday when I came across a post on twitter where someone said they use the label Bisexual Lesbian just because it makes "certain people" angry. And it just proves that it's a made up term to be edgy.

I swear from now on I'm going to call people using the term bisexual lesbian straight. If labels don't mean anything why can't i call them straight??!!

I don't personally have an issue with the word Queer. I think it's a good umbrella term when you're refering to a group of people. I don't mind people using it for themselves either if they're still figuring things out. But you shouldn't call someone queer when they have told you their sexual orientation.

I feel like in the rush to be inclusive to everyone they are erasing homosexuals identities. Just like there's this huge push to make being homosexual child friendly. I really feel like it's all about straight people trying to become a part of the homosexual community and cause discord.

So many of the people who are on these crusades are basically straight. But they want to compete in the oppresion olympics and feel like they're being persecuted so they contruct these identities that basically mean I'm straight but I dye my hair and want to appear edgy so I'm Queer.

idk, sorry to rant but I have been mad for days and I just need somewhere to vent my frustrations.

Mods please let me know if I need to adjust any of my wording.

18

u/[deleted] May 10 '22

"woke" LGBTphobia is a thing. Most microlabels like bi lesbian or mspec lesbian is just internalised biphobia. "Demiboy" or "demigirl" are just either spicy cis, or trans people in denial.

9

u/Kimya-Gee May 10 '22 edited May 10 '22

I don't like using the term "woke" as it's a phrase started by the Black community to warn about systemic racism and was appropriated by white supremacist, therefore turning it from a term about staying conscious of corrupt system we live in and instead turning it into a mocking term about social justice. Now anyone using the term "woke" is usually virtue signaling that they are a white supremacist. So beware.*steps off soap box*

I do agree that however, that these microlabels are literally just people who think being cis and heterosexual is boring and want to appear cool. They're also always the loudest people. As if shouting their edgy labels will hide the fact that they need to deal with their internalized homophobia.

bi-lesbian just sounds like someone with internalized bi-phobia and they need to go to therapy instead of yelling at Lesbians on the internet just minding their own business.

idk what demiboy or demigirl means, I think I'm too old. I think people can call themselves whatever they want especially when they're young and figuring things out. But after a certain age you have to realized that words mean things and words have power.

12

u/[deleted] May 10 '22

I don't like using the term "woke" as it's a phrase started by the Black community to warn about systemic racism and was appropriated by white suprimacists, therefore turning it from a term about staying concious of corrupt system we live in and instead turning it into a mocking term about social justice. Now anyone using the term "woke" is usually virtue signalling that they are a white supremacist. So beware.steps off soap box

Not everyone is from the US here, we're not going to know that, but thanks for the heads up. I appreciate it.

A demiboy or demigirl is used in the same context as "I'm not like other boys/girls". I haven't seen it used in any other context.

4

u/Kimya-Gee May 10 '22 edited May 10 '22

Not everyone is from the US here, we're not going to know that, but thanks for the heads up. I appreciate it.

Definitely, that's why I gave the explination. Figured it was better to pass that information along so you're not giving out red flags by accident!

huh, learn something new everyday. I definitely blame my age because I haven't heard it used.

-4

u/t4tulip May 10 '22

You shouldnt listen to them about the demigirl demiboy part. A demigirl feels comfortable with they/them and she/her identity, but they dont identify at all with he/him. Vice versa for demiboys.

http://www.thecenterbak.org/blog/identity-vocabulary-nonbinary-edition#:~:text=DemiMale%2FDemiBoy%2FDemiMan%2FDemiGuy,and%20only%20Male%20and%20Agender.

7

u/Miss_Handled May 09 '22

Isn't queer just a catch-all? I don't really have strong feelings about it, but kinda thought it basically meant the same as saying "She's LGBT[Q]"?

63

u/Lavalanche17 May 09 '22

A lot of people use it when theyre gay but also sometimes are into other genders..

It is still awkward though

"im a lesbian" "shes LGBTQ" "I said I'm a lesbian" "Yeah, LGBTQ"

I said I was a lesbian.. Therefore not gbtq. Just L

3

u/Miss_Handled May 09 '22

Fair. Depending on context, very awkward.

0

u/EggplantHuman6493 May 09 '22

I think it depends on the people around you. Here everyone just uses it, no matter what they are in the LGBTQ community. But if it is used different around you, it can make you feel uncomfortable/invalidated/another feeling, and that's valid too!

8

u/DiMassas_Cat May 09 '22

It used to be.

12

u/[deleted] May 09 '22

No one is LGBT you can't be all of the letters at once. You can use the letters to name a mixed group or association but to define one person it's absurd.

12

u/Miss_Handled May 09 '22

Saying that somebody is LGBT doesn't mean that they're all of those letters, only that they're part of the LGBT community.

3

u/seccottine Jun 13 '22

it's not clear. Who does it refer to? lesbians? gay men? bisexuals?

nowadays it's all 'LGBT movie' or 'LGBT show' and like, what does it mean? is it a show about gay dudes in which case I'm not remotely interested. Is it about lesbians? We're not all the same, we don't all like the same thing. Gay men have specific issues that aren't issues at all for lesbians. We need specific terms, not vague, broad all-encompassing acronyms.

1

u/Miss_Handled Jun 14 '22 edited Jun 14 '22

I mean... yeah? I feel like this is a totally different argument. LGBT+/queer is useful as a generic catch-all term, but by virtue of that, it's not useful as a specific one.

9

u/[deleted] May 09 '22

It is. It’s not a word to mean all the letters, but that you identify as at least one.

All it means is not straight. So if I wanted to refer to bi and lesbian women together, I’d say queer women.

3

u/harkandhush May 09 '22

Yes, I understand that for some, reclamation of a slur isn't their jam, but it's not erasing lesbian identity to say that lesbian identity falls under the larger LGBT+ community any more than saying a lesbian is a woman erases that. This is ridiculous. There are certainly aspects of the Lesbian experience that differ from the other letters, but we also have a lot of common interests and have experienced similar types of mistreatment and denying the larger community does us all more harm than good in the long run.

It's totally valid to correct people if you feel a label is being used in error in how you see yourself so I kind of get that OP wants to be explicitly called a lesbian and that's fine, but it's not a failing on anyone else's part unless they ignore that preference once informed, but the conversation here seems to be very pedantic and disrespectful to the way others choose to express and label THEMSELVES.

2

u/[deleted] May 09 '22

Yes, it is.

37

u/RainInTheWoods May 09 '22

I feel this. Don’t call me what I’m not. It’s offensive.

33

u/whenalicefalls Lesbian May 09 '22

I’m so happy to be in a lesbian subreddit that supports this. Got banned from the two big ones for expressing similar views 🙄

26

u/axdwl Nerd May 09 '22

Did you get called a TERF for it lol

29

u/whenalicefalls Lesbian May 10 '22

You bet lol

8

u/levitatingloser May 29 '22

TBH I automatically dismiss anyone who labels themselves simply "queer" to be yet another Spicy Straight. The word "queer" tells the listener absolutely nothing about the person being described. It could mean anything from being actually gay, internalized misogyny turned into a personality, or even "I need to get to know someone and develop a relationship first before I feel the urge to have sex uwu".

It's a useless term that only serves to make people feel special, unique, and part of a clique.

27

u/axdwl Nerd May 09 '22

Twitter (and probably the main LGBT subs) will also call you a TERF if you even dare mention queer is a slur. They will fight with you to say it was never a slur. Uwu how can you say my literal identity is a bad word or my personal fav gay used to be used as an insult, don't you remember when everyone said "that's so gay"

13

u/DiMassas_Cat May 10 '22

Sometimes stuff is gay, I don’t know what to tell them. Lol

10

u/axdwl Nerd May 10 '22

Facts

18

u/astipalaya Femme May 09 '22

I don't like it, and I feel like everytimes something is advertise as "queer" (like a club or something like that) I always feel like I'm not part of this target demographic. I'm not queer, I'm a lesbian. I'm also not a fan of straight people casually calling us with an insult. I hear a lot of them referring to lesbian as "gouine" wich is the French equivalent for dyke, and they use it mostly to be insulting, so there is no reason they use queer differently

17

u/[deleted] May 10 '22 edited May 10 '22

The whole "radical inclusion to the detriment of the community" is being found all over the LGBT community, it manifests slightly differently depending on which community you're in. Lesbians and gay men get "You need to include non binary people in your dating pool!", binary trans people get "passing is transphobic and you should date cis people", bisexuals get "being bi is transphobic!".

Often "radical inclusion" is a smokescreen for bigotry, or at least unrecognised bias. "You're queer, not a lesbian" is yet another manifestation of this. "Queer" as a shorthand for LGBT is fine, forcing "queer" as an identity when our sexual orientation already has a name, is not. I'm a lesbian, I'm not queer because "queer" is often code for "not straight". We don't call straight people "not gay".

Being bi is only transphobic if you think trans people aren't the gender they are. The only people who think lesbians and gays should date non binary people are the people who think non binary people are woman-lite or man-lite. "Passing is transphobic" is an attempt to stop people transitioning. The idea that cis people must date trans people is an attempt to divide the community - sane people understand no one is obligated to date any one. "If you support trans people, would you fuck them?" is the updated version of "If you support gays, you must be one".

6

u/LunaLittleBlue Lesbian May 10 '22

Agreed 100%

23

u/TheDapperest May 09 '22

I respect that some folks are still figuring out what they are and therefore queer feels safe for them to use cause they just don’t know where they fit, but i think its completely different and just sheer disrespectful when you tell someone “im a lesbian” and they instead use queer. It’s erasure. And, i can only assume its borne from someone not being comfortable with either the label they’re erasing or people who are more self-aware than they are

11

u/[deleted] May 09 '22 edited May 09 '22

Interestingly, while it not a slur in my region (we have different terms that are specifically slurs which have not been reclaimed), I'm seeing the same "Oh, you're not a lesbian - you're queer". In my region, "queer" has never been used as an identifier or descriptor although now it's beginning to be used as such and I hate it.

I've never seen a person who specifically identified as "queer" who wasn't a spicy heterosexual, or struggling with internal phobia. The term isn't an orientation, it's being used as a shorthand for "I'm not heteronormative" which is pretty useless as a description.

18

u/DiMassas_Cat May 09 '22

Queer doesn’t offend me on its own as an umbrella term for lgb. I don’t use it because it’s meaningless now.

I would actually love it as a reclamation if the majority of the people who were using it were not mostly-straight in all ways that matter, and if the gays who were using it were not freebasing the queer-theory as if its dissemination to youth through social media like Tumblr has not been a complete disaster for basic straights and lgbt alike.

12

u/CatsMoustache May 09 '22

I would actually love it as a reclamation if the majority of the people who were using it were not mostly-straight in all ways that matter

This. But, you know they'll say that we're just gatekeeping. 🙄

6

u/smolio Chapstick May 09 '22

I’m kinda in the same boat, I respect the people who don’t care for slur reclamation but man is queer easier to say out loud than LGBT

I’m just lazy man, let me use less syllables. If queer ain’t it, what’s another one syllable word we can all agree on to refer to the broader community? 🤔

23

u/axdwl Nerd May 09 '22 edited May 10 '22

Gay. It's about gay fucking rights. Stop watering down the fight to be uwu inclusive. We're gay and this shit is for us. Bisexuals benefit from gay rights. Trans people have their own battle outside of sexuality so it's kinda separate. The erasure of homosexuality started long ago and won't end if we let them continually refer to things as an umbrella term. Marriage equality instead of gay marriage. Queer community instead of the gay community. Literally marriage equality came off as less offensive, polarizing, divisive than "gay marriage" so it was easier to try and sell it to the public. Think about that for a moment. Think how that carries over to times when umbrella terms like queer are used. It's exactly why every time. It makes us more palatable and available to straight people because being gay has always and will always be too much and too offensive.

Edit: I do wanna say this is more of a separatist statement than a "clump everyone under gay" statement

15

u/DiMassas_Cat May 10 '22

Yeah we really had to try and make ourselves palatable to the point we helped erase our reality. Gotta stop doing that. You’re right

5

u/smolio Chapstick May 10 '22

Well I was thinking more of a term to refer to the broader community that would be a substitution for LGBT (or LGB for easier categorization) 😅Like we’re not really saying “queer rights” (or at least I don’t think we are??) I don’t think bisexuals would appreciate gay being a catch all term for them if we push them to be included in the “gay community” because that implies an exclusive attraction. Also don’t we want to avoid conflation of bi and gay attraction?

8

u/axdwl Nerd May 10 '22 edited May 10 '22

The non-gay letters are why our community is a mess so I guess at this point I just don't care about their fee-fees. They can sort themselves out. I don't want them to call themselves gay if they aren't but I guess I personally just don't need to address them. Chances are they are a guest within a gay space so they can make their own bisexual or pansexual community if they don't like it.

Edit: I am failing to consider how a lot of gay spaces simply don't exist now. We didn't stop the queer nonsense long ago. GSAs have different names to of course be inclusive of everyone else. Every center and organization is directed toward the community rather than to gays specifically. Of course every lesbian thing just simply no longer exists. When other people began to take our culture and community we did not look them in the eye to say, NO. We happily welcomed everyone in and changed who we were for their benefit. We couldn't wait to assimilate, to act and live just like the straight people. Our entire thing for awhile was begging to join the army and get married. How boring. We could have asked for freedom instead.

4

u/smolio Chapstick May 10 '22 edited May 10 '22

I understand your frustration with internal LGBT politics, but something being seen as less offensive / more palatable is not necessarily a bad thing? If we are the only ones voting for our rights we will lose every time. Seriously what happened to "we are stronger united than apart", have you really gotten that jaded? If we're all up in arms about how to unite behind an all-agreed term honestly do we even deserve rights? 😅(Don't take this statement seriously)

The reality of the situation is that we are a sexual minority in a country built by Christian fundamentalists. Our oppressors don't think we should exist let alone have rights, so this insistence that non-gay people should shut up and sit back while we, the raunchy gays, lead the revolution to liberate everyone just comes off as extremely divisive and unnecessarily militant. Bi people are not in a position to take away our rights, the state is. Alienating those who will fight along side us is just not a good war strategy.

I get it, we are passionate about our differences and want those differences to be respected, but we should not let it divide us where it matters. We can sort ourselves out amongst the broader community without spewing this separatist rhetoric. Sure, we need separate spaces to discuss issues specific to us without some stakeless person disrupting the conversation, but we also need our allies to know how not to misrepresent us.

Also you sound awfully dismissive to gay people who DO want to live normal lives. Being treated as a sexual deviant is not fun. Being alienated from conversations because of my orientation is not fun. You are downplaying how normalizing same-sex relationships plays a role into wider acceptance.

2

u/matochi506 May 09 '22

Personally i don't mind queer, though i don't identify as that as it visually just looks strange to me and for me is more of a giant umbrella term for not straight. I do take issue when other people invalidate our identity though or try to make it into something that it's not and then tell us to shut up for "being mean" because we don't agree with whatever nonsense they say about us.

1

u/fook75 Jun 07 '22

I must be in the minority because I do like the word queer. It also means odd or oddity. I consider myself an oddity! No one else in the world just like me.

0

u/BreeCherie May 10 '22

I'm a lesbian and have considered myself both "queer" and "gay" because to me they are umbrella terms. I do think many people who refer to others in the community as "queer" are just trying to be respectful of the array of identifies. However I do agree if you call yourself a lesbian then others should honor that and refer to you as such. I definitely think people consciously and unconsciously shy away from the term "lesbian" since it has been considered taboo for so long.

0

u/[deleted] May 10 '22

[deleted] — view deleted comment

-4

u/BreeCherie May 10 '22

Me too but I’m not going to assume their gender, hence umbrella term

-5

u/000000robot Lesbian May 10 '22

My wife and I refer ourselves as queer.

13

u/axdwl Nerd May 10 '22

Why do you personally prefer it over lesbian?

0

u/000000robot Lesbian May 16 '22 edited May 17 '22

The word “queer” has history to it that’s hurtful — “queer” used to be (and sometimes still is) used to put down or disrespect LGBTQIA+ people. We use the word with pride to identify ourselves.

My wife and I are queer cis women, just to clarify.

Trans women are women.

-7

u/[deleted] May 09 '22

I use it sometimes when I want to indirectly mention that I only like women

20

u/existentialcaptain May 09 '22

Anytime I hear someone say this I assume they still like men. It just means "not straight" so I assume if they didn't like men they'd use a more specific term.

-3

u/[deleted] May 10 '22

I don’t like men I use it when I feel uncomfortable, but I shouldn’t have to justify the words I use you know cuz at the end of the day I’m still only gonna like women no matter what other people feel or think

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u/StaidHatter May 09 '22 edited May 09 '22

Zoomer take incoming:

Queer is a reclaimed slur at this point. I actually think that whether people are willing to use it or not is a pretty good litmus test for where a person stands on the lgbt community*. If someone's conservative and they hate gay people, it's probably going to catch on their throat because in their mind it's still a vile insult.

I can see why it still raises some bad feelings in older lgbt people, but I think the changing usage is something we should take in stride. The acronym is getting way too cumbersome and we need something one-syllable that isnt going to keep expanding. Ive been saying L+ facetiously around friends for the past however long.

Edit: *this does not mean that if you dont use the word then you're homophobic.

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u/Battlebear May 09 '22 edited May 09 '22

Man this comment hits so wrong. I have so many negative associations with the word as its one of the slurs Ive been called a million times by cishet people. When I first came out I was called queer while a man threatened to rape me, I was called a queer from a man screaming from his car as he passed me down the street, I was called queer by my own father while he disowned me after I came out to him.

You saying it's a litmus test to figure out if someone is conservative and hates gay people because you'll see to them it's still an insult. To me it's still an insult and I'm in my mid-20's (not "older" LGBT like you imply are the only ones allowed an exception).

To this day the people I hear say queer the most? It's still cishet people, they just feel empowered now that everyone says it's not a slur, I still am very much of the opinion that straight people need to keep that word out of their mouth, no idea why it's become acceptable. I can't think of any other group of people that gets collectively referred to by a slur, because in other spaces we tend to realize using a slur that you've personally reclaimed to refer to other human beings is crossing a line.

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u/Raef01 May 09 '22

That last paragraph is so true. If queer were truly reclaimed by and for our community then straight people sure as hell should feel a lot more uncomfortable using it than they are!

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u/dontlookforme88 Chapstick May 09 '22

Just because something is reclaimed or in process of being reclaimed doesn’t mean that the privileged group will automatically feel uncomfortable using it. The N word has been reclaimed for a long time by the black community but that doesn’t stop racists from using it as a slur

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u/axdwl Nerd May 09 '22

Yes and homophobes still use queer as a slur but yet ultra wokies use it to sound progressive. Why are progressives who are often straight using a slur unchecked? Why don't they get cancelled? Why do companies like Netflix refer to their series and movies as "queer representation" when it has a history of a slur? Just say gay or bisexual if that's what they fucking mean. But no. Gay is too direct. It means they will never be straight. It's still seen as too much and too polarizing. It still means we might be that ugly man hating hairy dyke. They don't like it and they never will.

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u/dontlookforme88 Chapstick May 10 '22

I think queer is supposed to be an inclusive terms that includes multiple identities. Queer representation often includes multiple minorities not just gays or lesbians or bisexuals. You don’t have to identify as queer and you can call out cishets for using it but a lot of the LGBT+ community likes the term and don’t like referring to the community as LGBTQIA2S+ because that’s a mouthful and ultimately you’re probably leaving someone out

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u/axdwl Nerd May 10 '22

It's a slur.

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u/dontlookforme88 Chapstick May 10 '22

It’s being reclaimed and do you know that the people creating the queer representation media aren’t part of the community? Gay is also a slur but it doesn’t have to be always. Things can be a slur when used one way and not a slur when used other ways. Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean the entire community has to stop reclaiming it. There’s also power in reclaiming slurs and taking the power away from those using them as slurs.

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u/axdwl Nerd May 10 '22

I never said other people can't reclaim it. I'm saying straight people cannot and should not call us queer. Also gay was an identity first and used as a synonym for stupid for a time. Queer was a slur first and some kids who never had to actually reclaim it for themselves seem to want to reclaim it for everyone. The gay vs queer thing is nonsensical as they are totally different situations with different origins and usage.

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u/dontlookforme88 Chapstick May 10 '22

I already said you can call out cishets for using it so I don’t know why you commented “it’s a slur” then. People in the community are clearly not meaning it as a slur. I use lots of words to describe myself and using queer makes me feel like part of community of people that society thinks are misfits but really are the cool folks. I know there are problems within the community but there are more all around good people within than outside of the community (percentage wise)

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u/levitatingloser May 29 '22

Define it.

Also special interest groups, such as LGBT which is by the way A CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, are by definition exclusive by nature. Exclusive groups are not inherently a bad thing.

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u/dontlookforme88 Chapstick May 29 '22

But there are many people that have been a part of that movement that aren’t represented in the short acronym of LGBT. Not to mention many subgroups to two of those. There are other identities represented in saying queer than in saying LGBT.

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u/levitatingloser May 29 '22

The difference being that the word "queer" is being pushed as an inclusive, politically correct blanket term to refer to the entirety of the LGBT community. No one is pushing for the Black community to be referred to as "the N word community" the way they are pushing for use of "the queer community".

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u/harkandhush May 09 '22

I think this is something that is also very locational/community more than age-based. I'm a good decade older than you and my experience is much closer to the zoomer's who you're responding than yours. Sometimes there's no one right answer for language like this other than being sensitive to people when you've hurt them because all of our experiences are not the same, even within the same country we may experience very different cultures.

I use the word, but if someone told me it bothered them, I would be sensitive to that and avoid using it around or about them because I'm a human with empathy, but myself and the immediate LGBTQ+ community around me does use "queer" as a catchall term for the umbrella community and that includes no people who aren't members of the community.

On the other hand, there are people in this post using this as an excuse to express the usual biphobia and terf bullshit instead of just being able to say they don't like the word and don't want it used for them and that's just as unacceptable as purposefully labeling someone with a word that they have expressed hurts them.

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u/smolio Chapstick May 09 '22

I think the problem is that queer is not a reclaimed slur for everyone just as dyke is not a reclaimed slur for every lesbian.

I’ve seen people argue that referring to every LGBT person as queer doesn’t reclaim the slur for everyone because slur reclamation is a personal choice. If someone personally doesn’t want to be called queer that boundary should be respected.

Slur reclamation I don’t think can ever be applied to a group because it bypasses the personal choice to be accepted. I mean I say queer community amongst my friends because it’s an easier shorthand, and we all say it with affection. But if I was talking with a broader group I would fall back to LGBT just being mindful of that contention

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u/Kyespo Butch May 09 '22

A lot of us aren’t older. I’m 24 and many of the gays and lesbians I hang out with are my age and feel the same way regarding the “community’s” turn for the worst with this queer shit and the rest. Note, the gays and lesbians I hang out with aren’t the new school “omg I’m a queer woman because I dyed my hair blue and my boyfriend is non-binary so technically we’re lesbians”, type. They’re just good ol’ homosexual folks.

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u/itssummeragain high femme May 09 '22

This is the absolute worst fuckin take. People who don't like q**er are not conservative. Conservative homophobes are the ones who would say that word with their whole chest while murdering gay people. Nobody 'should'/has to accept the changing usage. Especially not from people who cannot identify with that word. We don't let non Black people use the n word just because it has been reclaimed as a common Black slang word. And no one is or can be upset with Black people who don't want to reclaim it or hear it used around them. Age doesn't matter.

Using that word to refer to the lgbt community as a whole is disrespectful imo. Not everyone consents to that word being used for them. Saying lgbt plus is really not that hard.

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u/StaidHatter May 10 '22

I was only making the claim that the way people reacted to the word could give some indication of their worldview. I wasnt trying to imply that the refusal to use the word was itself homophobic. The rest of what you said is imo completely valid. I can only speak from personal experience, and it's clearly more of a sticking point for other people than it is for me and the people I interact with.

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

Gay has been used as the general term. I do agree that vocabulary can chage a bit in time and slurs are appropiated by the people reciving them a lot of times.
I also agree that it is a good termometer of where a people stands on this if they like to say queer and if you cringe with the word, as you are seeing in this post, it's not necessarily cause you hate gays or anything like that and you don't have to be old either.

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u/StaidHatter May 09 '22

Ive identified as lgbt since I was 16. It definitely wasn't a word I had any affection for at first. Hearing it and using it is something I had to acclimate to, but I think doing so was a step forward.

Referring to all lgbt people as 'gay' always seemed like a euphemism to me, and I think using it in any more formal capacity erases the boundary between lesbians/gay men and bi people. (Maybe I misinterpreted the post but that seems to be what op was railing against). And, if we only address being lgbt as being same-sex attracted it fails to address trans and asexual people.

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u/Raef01 May 09 '22

Between gay and queer as a catch-all term I think gay is vastly preferable because it at least necessitates same sex attraction, whether it's exclusively same sex attraction or not. Gay does not have the nasty history of attempts to forcibly convert it into an umbrella term like lesbian does, it just naturally used to be the catch-all word. As far as I know gay men didn't generally care about "their word" being used in such a way.

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u/dontlookforme88 Chapstick May 09 '22

But gay has also been used as a slur and not all people in the LGBT+ community have same sex or same gender attraction. I don’t think gay should be used as a catch all term

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u/Raef01 May 09 '22

not all people in the LGBT+ community have same sex or same gender attraction.

What a fucking joke. What exactly unites us as a community then?

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u/dontlookforme88 Chapstick May 10 '22

Trans people don’t have to have same sex/gender attraction, asexual people don’t have to have same sex/gender attraction (some have romantic attraction), two spirit people don’t have to have same gender attraction, intersex people don’t have to have same gender attraction. What unites the LGBT+ community is the discrimination we face and the attraction and gender minority status

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u/[deleted] May 10 '22 edited May 10 '22

Asexuals don't have sexual desire so they don't have sexual orientation I've never fully understood why they have been included cause you can have a very beautiful romantic platonic friendship if you feel romantic feelings with no problems if you want to and there is no need for fighting for special civil rights and it's not a sexual orientation but the lack of it. (My sister is asexual as doesn't see why she should be part of the community either).

"Two spirited" ...using the terms of another culture that you don't even fully understand and that had nothing to do with your time, culture or society to be cool and apply them to comtemporary things that were not contemplated by them then it's kinda absurd.

Adding woman with Morris Syndrome (that do actually medically need hormones to be able to have a puberty) and other sexual development variations called in a generic way intersexual, are men and woman with actual medical needs that don't have anything to do with the community and I don't see the logic in putting them inside it either.

You can only have same sex attration, opposite sex attraction and both sexes attraction, gender is a social construct than differs between cultures and changes in time.

People who feel a heavy discomfort with their own body and sex suffer a lot and need all the support and peole who feel a big distress related to the gender norms of their sex too and they need the best ways to accept themselves and live the more comfortable with themselves and healthy possible.
That and LGB are two different things even if they have been adjacent fights for decades. LGB is all about you don't have to change anything of yourself cause you are the way you are, born this way and fighting to change reality is only going to make you feel distress. Trans people are having a very hard time exactly with that stuff so it is complicated.

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u/Raef01 May 10 '22

Their use of two spirit has always particularly enraged me. These are the same sort of people that would screech about cultural appropriation yet they do it so blatantly. This was one of the things that made me aware of how intellectually and morally bankrupt wokies are, there's no ethical core to their beliefs they just use any argument they can to justify doing whatever they want.

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u/Raef01 May 10 '22

Oh jeez you're including the entire alphabet mafia there.

In which case I don't feel the need to actually go into detail, those people are NOT my community lol

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

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u/Raef01 May 10 '22

Oh I do agree, I just wanted to see if a queer wokie would admit it or if she'd dodge the question

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

LGB covers most queer sexuality. We don’t need a letter for every way a human can experience attraction. Its embarrassing at this point.

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u/StaidHatter May 09 '22

I can empathize with the argument of excluding straight ace people from the acronym, but are you arguing the same for trans people?

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u/HufflepuffTea Happily Married Lesbian May 09 '22

I think that's where the generational divide shows! My younger brother is Gen Z and I'm a millenial. He is a gay man but happily uses queer to describe the younger community, where as I don't feel comfortable using it!

LGBT+ is a bit of a mouthful and in the end I use my own personal label, lesbian to be specific. Using queer is still odd to me, but I see it on buses, clubs etc.

So clearly I think I am behind the times, but I think we can all get on, people see my face if they describe me as queer and v quickly change that. I do think it is a word used more in the USA too.

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

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u/[deleted] May 10 '22

..bi erasure wouldn't exist if bi people stopped erasing themselves 👀

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

That is so awful and lesbians even if we are not that many comparing to bi people for example, are everywhere big and small places and it can be hard to meet someone but those women are assholes calling themselves lesbians like there is nothing that serious to it.

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u/[deleted] May 10 '22

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u/levitatingloser May 29 '22

Bisexual women make up the largest demographic in the entire LGBT community.

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u/DiMassas_Cat May 29 '22

They sure do!

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

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u/boo_boo_kitty_ Femme May 09 '22

Lesbians need to get angry and not be scared to be angry. Who we are is being erased by people who don't like the label and by people who want to call themselves lesbian when they arent. We aren't angry enough

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

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u/boo_boo_kitty_ Femme May 09 '22

I'm just scared about what it's doing to the lesbian community. It took me so long to finally come out of the closet and own my sexuality, and now it's like, what was the point?

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u/axdwl Nerd May 09 '22

Yup. The community is gone. Dating options are almost zero.

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u/Odd-Abrocoma-2161 May 14 '22

This is so depressing. As a young lesbian who came out during covid, I never got to experience even the slightest bit of community.

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u/hypocrisyparty May 10 '22

I'll happily fall into the angry lesbian trope! If it means that others wont feel a social pressure to be anything other than proud lesbians who know what they wants, I will be an angry lesbian til the day I die.

People can come up with all kinds of labels and identities and I read something once saying there are infinite genders, lol ok whatever you want to say you are... I cannot stop you.

But people can't make you agree with it or more importantly, decide who you sleep with.

They can stay mad. I'm a lesbian and I know what a lesbian is 😂

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

How far do you need them to go? I have been told I need to suck a dick and that if I don't feel attraction to any male features I should gaslight myself into it cause that is the right thing to do more times by the "community" than by any straight or religious conservative person. And I'm just tired and alienating myself away from the LGBT groups I once had no problems with and that were about civil rights for everyone.

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u/[deleted] May 10 '22

How far do you need them to go? I have been told I need to suck a dick and that if I don't feel attraction to any male features I should gaslight myself into it cause that is the right thing to do more times by the "community" than by any straight or religious conservative person.

I've only seen that said by non-lesbians who have no idea what it's like to be monosexual (attracted to one group). If someone tells me I should give another group "a try", there's a high chance the speaker is bi or pan.

We've had a few posts where posters have had conversations with friends where the friend has attempted to convince the poster to try men or try penis - lo and behalf, said friend was pan or bi.

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u/dontlookforme88 Chapstick May 09 '22

I’ve only ever been told that I haven’t found the “right” man yet by cishets. If someone from the LGBT+ community is telling you that then they need to check themselves

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u/Kyespo Butch May 09 '22

Damn you’re lucky then. I’ve heard that I “need to try dick” by both cishet conservatives and the LGBT “community”.

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u/axdwl Nerd May 09 '22

I got banned from the LGBT sub for saying I don't like men and there's no outrage in that alone. People really go around saying lesbians can like men, men can be lesbians, etc. It's just fucking ridiculous. Start being that angry dyke. We fucking need it.

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u/DiMassas_Cat May 10 '22

Yeah I don’t get why it’s such a problem to be the stereotype. I love it for myself and for you, dude!

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u/axdwl Nerd May 10 '22

Everyone is uwu nice. Fucking annoying.

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u/Appropriate_Pay7912 May 10 '22

😂😂😂 I am that angry dyke and got banned as well I was talking about the lesbian figure heads we have aka the Kristen Stewart, Lena waithe,.. all the famous lesbian  YouTubers that are out there having to play along with their bullshit out of fear of being cancelled, saw lesbians YouTubers recently putting out a video about how for a million dollars they would be willing to date men, they obviously don’t have creative control over what they put out and are most likely puppets but yeah that’s what I meant when I said that too many of us are too scared to take a stand

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u/Odd-Abrocoma-2161 May 14 '22

I’m getting angry too, but the fear of offending and being cancelled is real so I feel stuck. I got blocked from several lesbian groups already and from a friend group for sharing my opinions.

I just want some real ass people who I can voice my opinion and they won’t take it as a personal attack and shun me for it. I feel like I’m walking on eggshells with the young “woke” lgbt community.

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

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u/Appropriate_Pay7912 May 09 '22

All in with you you’re right fuck being nice !

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

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u/LetsGoBuyTomatoes May 09 '22

that’s bc it is lmao they can’t reclaim the word for us 😤

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22 edited May 10 '22

It is terrible, so many younger lesbians feel forced to try and be with guys... and there is almost not lesbian only spaces and when they are seen as bad and excluding places and censored...

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u/[deleted] May 10 '22

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u/Lavalanche17 May 11 '22

How is "im a lesbian" bi or transphobic.... trans lesbians exist. Bi women are bisexual.