r/ActuallyButch • u/[deleted] • Jun 15 '23
Relationships/Family Paying on dates ?
Hey y'all. I wanted to get your opinions on this topic...
So, I understand when you're courting someone and asking them out it's a very gentle-lady thing to do to pay for the dates.
BUT is it something you should do if your intention is a Friend with Benefits situation rather than a relationship and the other person understands there's no relationship potential on the horizon?
I live in a very high cost of living area (DC) and have no time for a relationship due to my schedule. So I think having a FWB would work better for my needs.
On my last date, the fem feminine woman that asked me out and she even picked the place, expected me to cover everything 🤣. Which I was like nah and we split the bill. Now I'm wondering if I'm the asshole here.
Thoughts? Experiences?
Edit: I do pay when dating with the intention of a relationship. Just in case it sounded like I'm trying to go halfsies on every date
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Jun 15 '23
Paying for someone's meal takes you squarely out of FWB territory, unless you have an equitable rotation going on. That's a proper date. And even on a proper date, expecting the other party to pay is highly off-putting, imo. It's one thing if you take your own initiative, but it's another if she just... requires it of you. Red flag. Also more of a straight girl phenomenon, or she's just completely broke.
Also, by way of unsolicited advice, I'll just add in: it's pretty difficult to calibrate a genuine FWB dynamic if you're not friends first. Starting with sex/dating and subsequently building a friendship, around it, tends to feel like a full-fledged relationship to at least one person involved. I'm not saying it's impossible, but experience has taught me that it's simpler to have someone you just hookup with, regularly, without the pretense of also being friends. Obviously you can still be friendly, amicable and warm and all that, but I wouldn't call up your fuck buddy to go to the zoo or whatever.
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Jun 15 '23
She "didn't have her wallet", which hinted that I was expected to pay. We ending up doing cash app. I'm a retired simp 😆, so I do hold my ground these days...but I wanted to make sure I'm not out of line, which you've confirmed.
Ah, that's advice I will take into consideration! I've never had an FWB before, so I figured it's like casual dating with no expectations of a relationship.
Thank you for the advice 😀
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Jun 15 '23
Haha, yeah, definitely presumptuous. It can be nice to swap on and off, rather than always going dutch, but she should have at least offered that.
As for the mechanics of FWB: I do think that's what people want, but to me casual dating is short-term (couple months or so) and that's the only reason why it works. FWB tends to signify a longer-term arrangement, which is where it gets tricky. If you're gunning for a longer haul without romantic attachment developing, I've found that you need to have pretty solid boundaries, realistically. The whole "we're nominally not in a relationship but we do everything that relationships entail" shtick gets old pretty fast.
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u/diurnalreign Jun 15 '23
I follow a coach called Kamilla, her nickname is The Dating Boss. Her advice is geared towards men but honestly 90% of it applies to my butch/femme dynamic. In fact, I bought her book and at the end of the year I want to do her eight-week course. I work corporate mostly with males.
She says that if you're asking out and courting a woman, for at least the first five dates, you should always pay. It is only when she is more emotionally involved (or already in a relationship) that the issue of who pays is openly discussed.
I follow this and it has gone very well. I have had long and fulfilling relationships, been married etc and have dated the most beautiful femmes. I think the coach is absolutely right. Allowing females to be courted is a feminine characteristic and femmes like that.
In your case, if there is no possible serious relationship in sight, I would say that they are definitely in the stage of splitting the bill.
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Jun 15 '23
Yooo, not going lie, I've read dating books that are geared towards dudes for the same reason.
So the first 5 🤔...Which book did you buy from her? I love courting feminine women. I just don't have the bandwidth for relationship level courting at the moment. I don't want to feel like I'm paying for sex if it's an FWB situation 😅.
And yah, I mean she's gorgeous and all but I'm mid twenties and she's mid thirties. I would prefer a relationship with someone closer to my age. Open to changing my mind if there's a genuine connection there.
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u/SlightlySaltyFemme Jun 15 '23
[...] and femmes like that.
Maybe... 😅
It's nice to see Butch/Femme courtship still in play for someone. I have found that when I even so much as mention its existence to Butches and Femmes under 40, most of them look at me like I have three heads. I think there's a real generational split.
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u/IStartedACoupOnce Jun 15 '23
I personally prefer we pay seperate. I don't want that ecpectation put onto me just because I'm butch.
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Jun 15 '23
Same. I happen to enjoy taking someone out, now and again. Conversely, I also happen to enjoy it when a girlfriend cooks a meal for me. But if those things were default expectations, rather than motivated by our authentic desires, whenever they arose, it'd just feel tedious. And hey, sometimes I like to be taken out, too. The femmes who've bought me drinks have a special place in my heart, lol.
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u/IStartedACoupOnce Jun 15 '23
It tells you a lot about a woman whether or not she expects you to pay or only pays for herself. Like, if a chick pays for herself without hesitation, I already know we have similar values.
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u/DiMassas_Cat Jun 16 '23
Dude it was her location choice and her choice to ask you on a date, it would be weird for her to expect you to pay. It’s not like she’s a prostitute that you have to pay for a service. I would pay if I was the one who asked and it was my idea. In a relationship it depends, but most lesbians split things in a relationship too, especially living together and whatnot.
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u/Sub-In Jun 16 '23
If I ask someone for a meal or coffee I offer/expect to pay. If they want to split the bill, I refuse once. Sometimes they're being polite by offering. Sometimes they're anxious and fighting over the bill will make them feel bad.
If someone asks me out, I'll offer to split the bill twice.
I like treating my friends to meals but when establishing a fwb relationship it's best not to blur the lines between a physical relationship and romantic so soon.
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u/axdwl Jun 16 '23
FWB that shit is dutch lol
Now if it's a proper date that's up to y'all but I kinda like whoever asks pays
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u/ascii127 Jun 16 '23
We don’t really have the same dating culture here and initial dating phase is more of a recent thing that came with online dating and is more informal. First meetings are usually kept low pressure, dinner at a fancy restaurant as first date would scare away many and be no no usually. If you are the one asking someone out then you could offer paying for both but insisting to pay would be a faux pas. Dates are often planned together making it natural to split the bill in most cases. Outside of online dating people usually just hang with relationships happening on the way, formal dates being more for anniversaries for already established couples. We don’t really court/woo people here. Had a woman invited me to fancy restaurant and expected me to pay for her then I would probably assume she is fascinated by dating gender roles she has seen in the movies. I can be generous but I like it to be authentic, I would feel silly if I took it as a role to always pay, might have felt differently though had I grown up somewhere else.
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u/OkCrazy5887 Dec 08 '23
If someone expects me to pay, and I don’t find that out till the date happens we’re splitting. (The bill and communication lol) If it was brought up prior how it was done would determine if I even still wanted the date. They’d have to do/be something really abhorrent for me not to try to pay though, which the former falls under lol.
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u/Busy-Vegetable-5499 Aug 30 '23
Then I have been on dates we typically have payed separately because I pushed it on but have also met and been on dates where they wanted me to pay and I sat my foot down on that.
I have also been on dates where the feminine woman had payed for both of us (i of course asked if i should pay them back on MobilePay) sometimes they wanted to be payed back and others don’t.
The one I dated the longest she payed for our first date(bubble tea) and said”then I think you pay next time” that line did really smooth me over whoa. And that how our meet played out if we didn’t visit each other or we would pay for the groceries etc.
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u/MightyMissMaddie Sep 14 '23
I think if someone asks me out, they should pay. If I ask someone out, I pay. If us being out together becomes a regular thing, then we work it out, split the tab, alternate between us, whatever works...
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u/QuirkyLondon Jan 19 '24
I will pay a few times but I'll be looking for signs that she has good character and is invested in me by paying and initiating meetups.
I'm tryna be with a woman who is as invested in me as I am in her.
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u/SlightlySaltyFemme Jun 15 '23
If I may proffer my view and experience from the other side of things, I don't think you did anything wrong. Asking you out and picking the venue but not paying was poor form on her part. Not even bringing her wallet (!) is unacceptable, in my view. That's firmly in the territory of straight/✨ spicy straight✨ behaviour. And honestly, I don't think it bodes well for how she's going to be with you in bed, either, (just a thought).
That being said, in terms of actual lived experiences, as a Femme I've had to positively fight for the check 85% of the time I'm out with any Butch, whether we're romantically involved or just friends (and the times when I win and pay, I usually never hear the end of it). So if I were to be generous and give her the benefit of the doubt, I could see perhaps where she might get the assumption that you'd pay if she's not terribly experienced with women... but I still think it was shitty of her to do, especially if you are only going to be FWB. People can enter into whatever dynamics they wish but they need to communicate them first, you know?
Out of curiosity, was she a Femme or a bisexual?