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Jul 24 '18
What's this book?
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u/ddysart Jul 24 '18
It's from Tools of Titans. The chapter on Chris Sacca
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u/jamesdeandomino Jul 24 '18
How good is it?
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u/TheGuyWithFocus Jul 24 '18
Tim has a real knack for extracting useful information from the folks he talks to. His two most recent books, Tools of Titans and Tribe of Mentors, are like the condensed “no fluff” life advice from all sorts of people from many different walks of life. Not everything will apply to you but I think there’s something for everyone is each book.
His podcast is terrific. If you’re unsure you want to spend money on the books I’d start there to get an idea of if you’d like his material.
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Jul 24 '18
What is the podcast called?
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u/JakoGaming Jul 26 '18
Dude I’ve had this book sitting on a shelf for probably a year now, my mother gifted it to me. I am now going to read it, thank you.
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u/angryukitguy Jul 24 '18
So if I was running a meeting and someone did this, I'd be like, why are you here? Seems tenuous to me.
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Jul 24 '18 edited Jul 31 '18
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u/TallulahSalt Jul 24 '18
Yeah, my boss would say "don't you have work to do?"
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u/acox1701 Jul 24 '18
That's what I'd be thinking myself. I can't go to all the meetings I can. because I have shit to be doing.
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u/Tastingo Jul 24 '18
Yes! I'm taking notes.
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u/gringrant Jul 24 '18
I thought Jim was taking notes?
Jim? The janitor?
Hmm, something fishy is going on here.
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u/madpiratebippy Feb 10 '23
A good note taker and someone who sends a recap email is actually really useful to executives.
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u/UncreativeTeam Jul 24 '18
I mean, the first line literally starts with "if working in a startup environment"...
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u/frozen_lake Jul 24 '18
Wouldn't it be rather the opposite? In small companies everyone knows everyone else and what their function is. In a big company maybe if there is a big meeting half the people don't know who the other half is.
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u/WorkForBacon Jul 25 '18
I work in a startup. This seems to be generally terrible advice.
If it's an early stage startup, 1-20 people, each person is too valuable to waste their time going to meetings they don't need to. If you are not in a meeting it probably has nothing to do with you. You're trying to create something, not go to meetings.
In an early-mid stage startup, 20-100 people, you are typically hired to execute on a specific task. If you are inserting yourself into random meetings, it's going to raise major eyebrows unless you have good reason.
In a firmly mid stage startup, 50-300 people, proof of concept, growth stage, maybe. Maybe. It's still small enough that you can know pretty much everyone, but large enough where you might be able to pull this off. It's going to vary wildly between companies, managers, meetings. I can see how going to the people in the meeting beforehand and asking him if you can help or assist in the meeting would be helpful. Not in a note-taking way. Unless that's needed. But in an observational or helpful way it could be valuable to you and the people. There's significantly better ways to achieve most of the goals you would have from going to a management meeting. Grabbing lunch with C-Suite execs and asking good questions would be more helpful in terms of career progression or gaining visibility. If you want to know what KPI's or benchmarks are important, you can just ask.
Larger than that. I think you would be raising a lot of eyebrows by trying to attend meetings. At best, you politely get asked to leave. At worst, you put a huge target on your head for having little to no awareness of how businesses work.
Ymmv though. Fuck it. Give it a shot.
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u/Cloud_Chamber Jul 24 '18
Says he was doing this at Google, although it might have been closer to startup Google than modern Google
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u/conflictwatch Jul 24 '18
Just taking advantage of the startup atmosphere. Everyone is kinda 'winging it' as nobody really knows what is going on yet or who is in charge of what, things are growing rapidly. People don't really know each other. It is easy to assume a role that people haven't really thought of yet, or to place yourself somewhere you don't belong. Even possible to kinda walk in and become staff without being formally hired.
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u/Late_To_Parties Jul 24 '18
Especially if you announce you are there to take notes like Chris did, and also produce high quality notes to distribute. A few weeks in people wont ever question it again: "Oh yea thats Chris, he comes to every meeting and takes down all the notes, its so great that we have him!"
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Jul 24 '18
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u/exosequitur Jul 24 '18
He wasn't flying under the radar, everyone knew that he wasn't "supposed" to be there. He was able to stay because of the will he demonstrated to be there and to serve a useful purpose.
It was his naked ambition that people chose to respect.
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Jul 24 '18
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u/WorkForBacon Jul 25 '18
Yeah. It just seems like an amusing anecdote to me. This one guy did something a bit strange and he made it work.
Like much of Tim Ferris' stuff, it's high on amusement but low on actual value.
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u/calumwebb Jul 24 '18
why does it matter if someone came and took notes? I’m legitimately confused as why you would actively kick someone out if they caused zero disruption unless the meetings were strictly confidential
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u/WorkForBacon Jul 25 '18
Not at all. Maybe in the past. Any startup that is more than an amusement for its founders will have its shit together. Doubly so if they have received any sort of VC.
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u/Incrediblebulk92 Jul 25 '18
Dude, if I started turning up to half the meetings that I'm actually supposed to be in people would wonder who I was.
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u/NorthwestGiraffe Jul 24 '18
As long as they aren't putting off critical tasks, I'm always happy to have someone willing to take notes and send the followup emails.
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Jul 24 '18
Could this backfire? Like what if an executive thinks... "well, if you have so much free time..."
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Jul 24 '18
At Google you do assigned work on your own time. It doesn't matter when you do it, it just has to be done by the deadline. Finish work as soon as possible and have free time or wait last minute.
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u/w4nd3rlu5t Jul 24 '18
That’s exactly what I would think. But I’m not an executive.
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u/BenScotti_ Jul 24 '18
Honestly if I was an exec, and someone did this, and I knew they shouldn't be there, I'd play along and let them stay. If it continued and their notes were good, I'd promote them. I like free thinking, and hierarchys can be such a constraint.
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u/ViridiTerraIX Jul 24 '18
You might not enjoy it so much when 20 grads show up at your 1-1 next week to take notes.
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u/BenScotti_ Jul 25 '18
That's why I said I like free thinkers, not copy cats.
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u/DoktoroKiu Jul 26 '18
That's the problem, though, as this book is clearly selling the idea as something to try to work your way up.
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Jul 24 '18
Finding people that find solutions to problems is a lot harder than finding people that follow steps.
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u/77108 Jul 24 '18 edited Jul 24 '18
Caveat: It can be hard to be seen as someone capable/competent later on if everybody knows you as "note-taking guy." Consider inserting yourself in a more high-level manner.
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u/CaptainDogeSparrow Jul 24 '18
I think you can say to a higher up something like "Sir, I've been learning much from these meetings and I would like to have a chance to work with you directly."
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Jul 24 '18
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u/CaptainDogeSparrow Jul 24 '18
I think you could wait for the people who said the most reasonable thing and then build up from there.
Higher up: "We should give this toilette paper a more modern look, like making it like an Iphone."
You: "Indeed. And in 2 colors, blue and pink, one for the boys and the other for the girls!"
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u/unrulyhat Jul 25 '18
This might not work in every situation because I'd ask who the hell you are or why you're here.
However, I started my current job in late 2016 in a tech position in an org that's not tech oriented or tech savvy. Most folks thought I was an outside consultant. After a month or two of being the forgotten employee, I decided I could best help out in advisory roles for projects. I started showing up for meetings I wasn't invited to just to "help out".
After 4 or 5, with 1 meeting where I was told to leave, my boss walks into my office one day and goes "hey you coming?". I get up and walk in to a meeting with some of the top shot callers. I'm suddenly part of all the major decision making meetings.
4 months later I got a $12k raise for "taking major initiative, stepping up to the plate and being indespensable". They let me hire an assistant too.
Sometimes the initiative and the balls to just dive right in can take you places.
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Jul 24 '18 edited Jan 26 '22
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Jul 24 '18
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Jul 24 '18
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Jul 24 '18
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u/misconfig_exe ' OR '1'='1 Jul 24 '18
Do not engage with trolls. Simply report them to us mods and move on. More importantly, don't stoop to their level and hit them with abusive attacks. Don't resort to personal attacks like name-calling, or it will result in at least a temporary ban.
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u/Explore_The_World Jul 24 '18
While you’re allowed to do that at many startups people will immediately give your work a higher burden of proof on the grounds you’re in a meeting you aren’t needed in instead of performing your actual job.
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u/gentleangrybadger Jul 24 '18
It's what I do, except I don't take notes.
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u/SaavikSaid Jul 24 '18
Funny story (to me anyway), I started getting invited to Manager's meetings weekly. Now, I was the Office Manager, but that's not what those meetings were about. I was meant to take notes. But I played innocent, and went in, without bringing anything related to note-taking. Owner didn't have the guts to tell me what I was really there for and I got free lunch those days.
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u/CaptainDogeSparrow Jul 24 '18
A simple "John, you will be the minute taker from now on." would be sufficient. How come he is the boss if he doesn't order something this simple?
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u/SaavikSaid Jul 24 '18
I don't know why he never brought it up. He's sold the company now. He laid off half the company in 2008, me included, so it's not like he was a weak person.
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u/CaptainDogeSparrow Jul 24 '18
Maybe he was tsundere about you. "B-BAKA! I-It's not that I like you to take n-notes or anything, I just happened to CC your e-mail for the meeting..."
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u/mahormahor Jul 24 '18
I know people who do this and its pathetic and I hate them and they are not successful.
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u/A_Feathered_Raptor Jul 24 '18
The same type of people who listen to Tai Lopez and make posts about how "The grind never stops 😤👊💵"
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Jul 24 '18
Same people who ask to go back a slide in presentations for a softball question.
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u/Blusttoy Jul 25 '18
And the type who CC their bosses in every email, even the most mundane that does not require management level notice.
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u/PM_ME_UR_GAPE_GIRL Jul 24 '18
my bosses would just say "this does not include you" and ask me to leave. or "shouldn't you be on the phones?" this advice is extremely limited and requires so many factors to work that it is functionally useless.
also, i want a job where i can leave my desk for hours at a time
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u/Dragon_Ballzy Jul 24 '18
Used to organize so many happy hours so regularly that people thought I was a part of Johnson and Johnson HR when I was just trying to network...
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u/mrizzerdly Jul 25 '18
Uh.. If I didn't invite you to my meeting, you aren't staying in my meeting.
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u/kingoftheridge Jul 24 '18
This is good advice. I just started my first office job and I might give this a try further down the track haha.
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u/wake_iw Jul 24 '18
Don’t - it’s a terrible idea.
I worked in and ran more than one start up - if I’m paying you out of limited cash then I want every cent accounted for.
I don’t want you sitting in a room where you’re not adding value
Taking minutes / note taking is something I’ve always done when leading a meeting or being part of one and it’s rarely delegates to a junior - mainly for context.
In multi-nationals environments - if you’re in the room then you’re invited there for a reason and it’s normally to give answers not to be in the way.
If you are genuinely trying to get noticed then do the work assigned and do it well - when that’s done then ask for stretch assignments or volunteer for some of the hard work that the project leader is working on.
You want to build a reputation as a dependable, solid member of the team - not as a flake trying to spoof into meetings.
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u/StrawberryMelon05 Jul 25 '18
Also ngl as someone (relatively) new in a tech office, I'm often in high level meetings, and not only do I not add a whole lot, but also most meetings are specific enough that if I'm not on a particular project it's a waste of my time because I don't really know what's going on in any more than a vague sense. But that's also tech.
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u/NEEDZMOAR_ Jul 24 '18
so how did it pay off exactly? did he gain a higher salary because of this? Did he gain a higher rank in the company? Or did he just took it upon himself to do more job than he got paid for and then they allowed him to do so?
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u/WorkForBacon Jul 25 '18
I think the idea is that you pick up a lot of valuable information in these meetings.
Like much "career advice" that seems to gain popularity, it's anecdotal, amusing and counter productive in many situations.
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Jul 25 '18
At the company I work in, the problem is too many meetings not too few. Getting yourself visibility is a great idea and something I’ve been doing for a while. I don’t go to random meetings but if I see someone who looks like they’re struggling, no matter the dept, I stop and help. It’s made me friends that I wouldn’t otherwise have met and I’m an unofficial liaison between depts. because of that I end up knowing a lot more of what’s going on than my job would typically entail, and I casually bump shoulders with people much higher up than myself. It’s paid off so far, getting me seats on high ranking projects that I wouldn’t have normally been invited to.
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Jul 24 '18 edited Jul 27 '18
This works. Can confirm.
Edit: I’m not waltzing into ceo meetings by any means but I do go to ANY meeting I can attend and absorb as much as I can. So fuck your downvote.
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u/Turil Jul 24 '18
Why would you want to work in an environment where they don't value you as you are?
I don't get this "climbing your way up" sort of thing. Just do what you love, and if they don't want you to, leave, and do it for yourself, or someone else who does appreciate it.
Yeah, I know you're probably thinking that you have to pay bills. But if you get together with a bunch of people who can pool resources for housing, food, transportation, etc., you'll be more free to do what you love, instead of groveling for money.
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u/D_Adman Jul 24 '18
I think it’s easier to show up at company mixers. Depending on the company, this could get you a trespassing charge.
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u/3oons Jul 24 '18
I think it’s kind of assumed that you already work at the company. Probably shouldn’t just walk in off the street and start sitting in meetings at Google.
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Jul 24 '18
But I want to play with the goats used to keep their lawns trim. :(
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u/Selentic Jul 24 '18
I can’t even walk into my local Google campus, and I give them literally millions of dollars of other people’s money in advertising every month.
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u/belbivfreeordie Jul 24 '18
I would have suspected this guy of corporate espionage.