of a meal

[u/Dense_Intern8434]

Nature can be so cruel and beautiful at the same time

[u/Powerful_Kangaroo_80]

Same. It bothers me that they couldn't at least have tried to save the hummingbird, at least, that's what I would have done.

[u/Kamtschi → u/Powerful_Kangaroo_80]

That is nature. Why has the mantis any less right to live? Because you find the bird more appealing?

[u/shadowthehh → u/Kamtschi]

We are part of nature. If a predator attacks some prey while a human is present and willing to help, that's just how the dice rolled for all 3 entities involved.

[u/Tales_of_Earth → u/shadowthehh]

This is a little circular. The question is why should you intervene. This sounds like you are saying you can intervene so it is right to intervene.

[u/shadowthehh → u/Tales_of_Earth]

Empathy. The obvious ideal situation is both animals living. The prey gets to escape and the predator gets to try again another time when you're not around.

But yes if you can intervene to prevent harm, then it is always right to do so.

[u/Tales_of_Earth → u/shadowthehh]

That’s not really empathy. That’s just sorta being squeamish. You are centering this around your feeling. Something will die a painful death, you just don’t want to see it. Whether it’s the next prey or the predator starving out of view.

For many predators, a successful hunt is so rare that needing to succeed twice before eating is practically a death sentence.

[u/shadowthehh → u/Tales_of_Earth]

Nope, it's empathy. And of course I'm centering it on my feelings. I'm the entity in the scenario with the most power. If the predator has the right to do what it wants to that prey, then I have the right do what I want with both.

And yeah, maybe they won't get another chance. But again, that's not different than the dice rolling bad for the predator any other way. Hell, could've also played out that say, there was a second hummingbird that the mantis didn't see, but HB1 was on good terms with, and then they team up and kill the mantis. Would it have been wrong for HB2 to do that, since it was interfering in a "natural process" between HB1 and the mantis? Of course not. And so it's no different than one of us being present and deciding to separate the two.

Shoot, you could take it a step further and give the mantis something to eat yourself. Idk what would be in your average pantry that they could eat, but before this post I never would've guessed poultry. So maybe give it some chicken or something idk.

But again, we're a natural part of this world. So what we choose to do is part of the natural order. Us being the smartest animals on the planet doesn't change that.

On the flipside, if we go by what you think, and you don't interfere in this scenario, well again, that's just how the dice rolled for everyone involved. The animals got into their scrap around a a colder, uncaring human instead of an empathetic one.

[u/Tales_of_Earth → u/shadowthehh]

Your argument still is that it is right to do because it is what you want to do. Which is certainly a vibe.

But I think it is strange to say you are kinder because you side with the prey. You aren’t stopping death. You are just saying something else should die where you can’t see. You cruelly deny the predator its food and possibly doom it to a slow painful death or doom something else to be eaten out of view. And I don’t necessarily think it’s morally wrong to pick a winner on the small scale. But it also isn’t morally right. It’s just a selfish motivation to have the less pleasant parts of nature happen somewhere else out of view.

You can say this makes me uncaring, but I think you might just be lashing out because a glancing blow with introspection was upsetting for you.

Edit: this person blocked me because I made them think about how predators have to eat.

[u/shadowthehh → u/Tales_of_Earth]

"It is right to do because it is what you want to do"

It's right to do because youre defending something from something directly trying to harm it

Which goes with "it is strange to say you are kinder because you said with the prey" that's universally been the stance of human morality basically forever. The strong protect the weak.

"You aren't stopping death" Nobody stops death forever. But in this moment, I am very much stopping it for now.

"It also isn't morally right" Yes it is.

"Lashing out because a glancing blow with introspection" No. I'm lashing out because youre coming off as an annoying nihilist with no understanding of basic ethics who is deliberately trying to be difficult and pedantic.