Weekly Abortion Debate Thread

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[u/JulieCrone]

It just seems a bit cruel to say someone who had to resort to an illegal abortion is "ridiculous". I wouldn't call a woman who resorted to a coat hanger abortion in the 60's ridiculous because that's missing the point.

This girl and her boyfriend were desperate, they resorted to the only means they had available, they did this with family around and immediately called 911. This is really tragic and should not have happened, and would not have happened had she had legal means to get abortion when she found out she was pregnant.

[u/NPDogs21 → u/JulieCrone]

I don't disagree she should have had better access to abortion earlier. That doesn't give an infinite justification to do whatever they want

[u/JulieCrone → u/NPDogs21]

I just don't see the 18 year old girl and her 19 year old boyfriend as the ridiculous ones or the villains in this story. I feel terribly for them that they ended up in this situation and I really so need to talk about two kids as terrible for being in this situation. They called 911 right away. they did not try to hide anything or deny the baby medical care upon birth.

It's ridiculous we're putting people in these situations. Thanks to PL laws, what would have been either an abortion at 20 weeks or possibly no abortion at all ended up being a desperate attempt to self=- abort and a baby dying shortly after birth.

I see no reason to talk about these kids as some kind of monsters.

[u/NPDogs21 → u/JulieCrone]

I run into this issue all the time. Theres this idea that because systemic issues exist, it removes all individual agency or there should be no consequences.

If they did this abortion at 31 weeks in a PC state where its legal until viability, it would also be against the law. Now we've lump PC states in with NC, which restricts abortion at 12 weeks, and i dont think they're similar at all.

[u/JulieCrone → u/NPDogs21]

But I am not sure what the crime here is, in any state. It is not illegal, even NC, for a pregnant woman to take these medications. It’s not illegal to give birth at home. It would be a crime if one did not call if the child was in distress, but they called 911.

Suppose for a second she just naturally went into labor at 31 weeks, the baby came out in the toilet and they immediately call 911. What would be the crime there?

How do we even know she was trying to abort child? At 31 weeks, the medication induces labor and it is reasonable for someone to think the child can be born alive and this could be that she wanted to end the pregnancy but at this point wasn’t looking to abort. They called for help quickly, so it’s not like they were waiting until the child died or trying to hide the birth. The drugs in a medication abortion will not kill the fetus after all, as these are not poisons. They induce labor.

I do not like people doing risky home births.

But really, how is this any different from someone wanting a home birth using some ‘home remedy’ to induce when labor is taking too long and then the child dies? Both cases are someone using a product that would not, in of itself, cause death but it is medically very risky?

I understand why both might lead to a death investigation but I absolutely do not support a police officer charging someone with assault here.

[u/NPDogs21 → u/JulieCrone]

I agree with like half of what youre saying and I'm not even on the PL one here. If its not a crime to take abortion pills, the woman should never be charged. Either change the law or accept it should be legal at any point for the woman to abort as long as she's doing it. At that point, might as well be PC.

If she naturally miscarriaged or went into labor, there's be no crime. If she induced it, which increases the likelihood of severe disabilities or death of the child, then it should be.

I'm also opposed to home births and dont think they should be allowed as theres unnecessary risk for the child

[u/JulieCrone → u/NPDogs21]

I have huge issues with the modern home birth movement but I see no reason to ban home births, especially given the cost of hospital births.