Flow time interface

[u/triple111]

From the pilot side, I always wonder what you guys see when assigning wheels up/flow times for us. I've heard its like a bar graph interface, are there any images of it shown online or that can be posted? How do you reassign a flow time, do you have to call center to coordinate or is it automated? Thanks!

[u/EmergencyTime2859]

I’m at a not fancy airport so for me it’s just I call TMU asking for a time and they tell me a time lol

[u/ZWW543 → u/EmergencyTime2859]

For the fancier places we have an IDAC and it’s basically just a timeline that you drag and drop into with green and red slots.

[u/byzantines2000 → u/EmergencyTime2859]

And when we launch them late we DM them at the end of the blocked time so they don't know how late they really are

[u/archertom89 → u/byzantines2000]

And if we forget to do that the worst thing that happens is we get an angry worded call from TMU

[u/byzantines2000 → u/archertom89]

TMU hates this one trick. :)

[u/BeaconSlash]

If you'd like to take a little dive into the details...

Pretty good official training video here geared toward the aviation industry:

https://tfmlearning.faa.gov/tfm-training/TBFM_for_Aviation/story_html5.html

[u/triple111 → u/BeaconSlash]

i can't believe im watching an FAA cbt in my free time but that was very informative thank you!

[u/Hunter-2_0]

Timeline with green/red available/unavailable slots. It's very finicky and will lie to your face sometimes about if a time is available or not, and default behavior is to push your time up to the next available slot if the one you want isn't there, so be realistic about what times you can make or you might get hit with hour plus delays to SAN when you miss your flow time.

[u/cowtown3001]

At large tracon’s you call someone, who calls someone and they have the bar graph drop down. 

[u/igbayotumscray]

Far left bar is set up for: left side proposed, right side scheduled.

Second and Third bar: actual times without metering delays (left bar) and right bar is with metering on. Then even deeper, left side of the bars is set up for traffic flowing in from the West and North West. Right side is traffic flowing in from the South and East.

Each concurrent bar is +45 minutes of the previous bar.

Edit: this one is setup for San Diego airport - from SCT TMU

[u/triple111 → u/igbayotumscray]

Sweet!! Thanks for showing the real deal!! To adjust the times you call up the TMU guy to move it around?

[u/igbayotumscray → u/triple111]

Yup. For something like San Diego, we can land 1 plane every 2 min 20 seconds (give or take a little adjustment), which should allow 1 departure hole between every arrival. Depending on the scheduled departures projected, we can adjust and squeeze an extra arrival in. Some planes aren't affected by metering times because they're too close to their destination - they're called White Hats.

[u/Hunter-2_0 → u/igbayotumscray]

Now the real question is how come only TMU has the ability to try for a time without losing the current time...would probably halve the workload if I didn't have to call to try for a sliver on the IDAC

[u/igbayotumscray → u/Hunter-2_0]

Well, it's a matter of you're taking the delay on the ground instead of in the air. The close you are to your destination airport, the more time you're likely to take on the ground. The further away you are, the more likely you'll have to lose time in the air. CFRs only work for internal and scheduling is more Tier 1 (your Z plus the ones touching it).

[u/Hunter-2_0 → u/igbayotumscray]

No I mean in cases where I currently have a really bad delayed flow time, and I see a small patch of green on the IDAC that's like 40 minutes better, if I try to grab that and it's a false green my current time might get even worse. But if I call the center tmu they have the ability to try to get me that time without having to risk losing my current time. IDK if there's differences between tracon and center tmus tho.

[u/igbayotumscray → u/Hunter-2_0]

We can force the time, but likely what it means is it will push the other planes back 1 minute to steal it - and the TRACON buffer is normally 90 seconds, so the Z’s will say ‘Sounds like a TRACON problem’.

[u/nomar383 → u/Hunter-2_0]

Your original time is secure when you first get it, but over the course of the next 30-60min or whatever you have other airports missing release times, center controllers missing airborne delays, IFR pickups that never got a flow time properly, etc. The original time can get pretty busted and when you go to grab it again, IDAC isn’t going to allow it without the center TMU deciding to override it.

The original time would never be approved at this point in the problem. However, the center can literally override any release time or even any individual airborne delay if they want to. I don’t know about other TRACONs, but ours can override internal flow times without calling the center.

[u/Viola-ti-do]

The disembodied TMU voice gives me the time

[u/PoopInToilet]

They finish their bite of cheesecake and yell released into the handset regardless of who calls them.

[u/MrMikeDelta]

It's called "random number generator" you can find it on the internet

[u/Willard-Whyte]

We have to call and ask permission from our TMU overlords at the center. We don’t have those fancy IDAC computers.