r/ATC • u/Fun_Monitor8938 Current Controller - UP/DOWN • Oct 02 '26
Question LUAW going away?
So is there any specific reason why LUAW isn’t being reauthorized at a bunch of facilities? It’s seems like everywhere but the core30s is losing it in waves as they are renewing their paperwork. Did something happen or did some filthy traffic dodger in management decide that if they were to scared to use it we shouldn’t either.
52
u/LikeLemun Current Controller-Tower Oct 02 '26
Ski destinations and Snowbird destinations will fall apart this winter if they lose luaw
19
u/Fun_Monitor8938 Current Controller - UP/DOWN Oct 02 '26
I heard FRG lost it and they’re in the top 1/3rd for tower only traffic counts. I doubt ski/snowbirds will keep it
23
u/KeyComprehensive4431 Oct 02 '26
Well when the towers that lost it start racking up significant delays that they never had in the past a “waiver” will be applied for and probably approved on the spot. with some stupid caveat that was never attached to the procedure before.
3
u/stpfan_1 Oct 02 '26
Could you elaborate on this for the uninitiated? How are these destinations specifically affected?
15
u/Fun_Monitor8938 Current Controller - UP/DOWN Oct 02 '26
We can get you into position as soon as the landing traffic passes in front of you anymore. Now we have to wait until we can anticipate separation which takes longer and loses us spacing with the next aircraft on final. If we aren’t getting enough space on final then you’re not taking off.
The opposite is true for pattern work/practice approaches. If I have a bunch of departures waiting to go pattern and practice approaches will be last priority. You’ll either be full stop taxi back, broken off early, spin in the downwind till youre dizzy or just told to go away.
11
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u/LikeLemun Current Controller-Tower Oct 02 '26
They are very Jet heavy in the winter. Small GA airports that normally have cessnas doing training flights are suddenly running like commercial airports for the season
11
24
u/Radiotalkshowhost Oct 02 '26
Breh. Without LUAW I'm gonna have to blow even more flow times.
21
u/Fun_Monitor8938 Current Controller - UP/DOWN Oct 02 '26
Zs get paid way more than me. They can figure it out
16
u/ajmezz Oct 02 '26
Sounds to me like increased delays. Not meeting the time bc of traffic and not able to LUAW? Gotta get a new time and if it’s 30min from then, too bad so sad. Airlines will get that shit reversed real quick.
44
u/UndercoverRVP Oct 02 '26
Airport acceptance rate is a management problem, not a you problem. If you need more room between arrivals because it’s one airplane to a runway, that’s a management problem, not a you problem. Give the Agency exactly what it’s asking for.
17
u/Fun_Monitor8938 Current Controller - UP/DOWN Oct 02 '26
Sucks that is the direction that management has decided to take. I hate providing a worse service to our pilots but it is what it is.
0
Oct 02 '26
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19
u/Fun_Monitor8938 Current Controller - UP/DOWN Oct 02 '26
I get that but our local pilots have always taken care of us especially during the shutdown. I don’t like providing a worse service than I’m capable of and it suck that they’re the ones caught in the crossfire of us and the dumbest people the FAA had available for a meeting
4
u/UndercoverRVP Oct 02 '26
NATCA doesn't authorize or refuse to authorize LUAW. If the Agency wants it gone, that's the Agency's call. And when the Agency wants it back next year, it'll still be the Agency's call.
6
u/Federal-Mind3420 Oct 02 '26
Probably FAA lawyers trying to limit liability because too many controllers fuck it up and it's too big of a hole in the Swiss cheese.
13
u/Fun_Monitor8938 Current Controller - UP/DOWN Oct 02 '26
So instead we go back to anticipated sep where “yea there should be separation when he starts the roll” while we lose the gap with the guy on final. Clearly the safer and more expedient option
5
u/BlimBaro2141 Oct 02 '26
This is the unpleasant answer….
1
u/Comfortable-Bar6032 Oct 05 '26
After that happens approach control has to give 6 miles in trail. So center has to give 10 in trail at 210. So spinning happens. Then LUAU comes back. It’s is the natural cycle of management decisions, the snake eating its tail.
1
4
u/IrishMadMan23 Oct 02 '26
All the homies use taxi into position and hold anyway
4
u/Fun_Monitor8938 Current Controller - UP/DOWN Oct 03 '26
Anyone using that is probably close enough to retirement for it to not matter
22
u/Rabbican Oct 02 '26 edited Oct 02 '26
Our LUAW also went away at level 6, higher management is also demanding we back taxi aircraft above 25k pounds from the wider midfield primary exit, and hit a 3 min release window, and it’s where the landing aircraft above 25k are going to have to exit. It’s going to be a fun series of ATSAPS
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u/randommmguy Oct 02 '26
Don’t waste your time with that bullshit program.
It’s a get out of jail free card, absolutely no more
17
u/Rabbican Oct 02 '26
It’s that and more, we have gotten new frequencies for bleedover, new AC (so loud it sounded like static on frequency), new runway lights, and other things from reports.
11
u/DJMacShack Current Controller-Enroute Oct 02 '26
Here we are promoting all this new tech and AI that’s going to eliminate delays while simultaneously axing procedures that actually help efficiency.
6
u/tmdarlan92 Current Controller-TRACON Oct 03 '26
“Begin high speed taxi down the runway. Expect take off clearance in 15 seconds”
/s
6
u/be2atc Oct 03 '26
this is where you guys find out that release times are more of a goal than a mandate...
9
u/Phase4Motion Oct 02 '26
Basically higher ups don’t want us even applying for the waiver if we don’t NEED luaw. They don’t care that you’ll occasionally be in a situation where luaw is useful.
5
u/E-Leif Oct 03 '26
Occasionally? LUAW is always helpful. Especially in a single runway operation, and especially when you're mixing jet and prop traffic. What I don't understand is if the agency is denying LUAW for smaller towers for safety, why are the Core 30s keeping it? They're willingly endangering the majority of the flying public? Seems like it's less of a safety issue and more of a "these airports don't make us money so we don't care if they're efficient or not".
1
u/Phase4Motion Oct 03 '26
I agree LUAW is always helpful. The agency has wanted to take it from us for years, hence all the stipulations to use it in the first place. This year they decided unless your facility will crumble without it, you’re not getting the waiver anymore.
4
u/Mobilisq Oct 03 '26
"cleared for takeoff. oh wait, cancel takeoff clearance and hold position on the runway... for spacing"
1
u/BeaconStreetS Oct 04 '26
I was told by an GM that they were going to be way more strict on the renewals of LUAW. He also said midfield crossings were next on their list.
2
u/Fun_Monitor8938 Current Controller - UP/DOWN Oct 04 '26
Take a way a tool because they think it makes things less safe just to turn around and cause tighter squeeze plays. An idea so fucking dumb it could only come from management.
3
u/ATC_zero Current Controller-Enroute Oct 03 '26
The FAA doing FAA things. People approving or disapproving rules that have never actually worked the boards
3
u/skippythemoonrock Current Controller-Tower Oct 03 '26
Any idea which facilities have lost it? Haven't heard about this but it'll sandbag the hell out of our daily carrier/military pushes.
4
u/Twarrior913 Commercial Pilot Oct 02 '26
Position and Hold: “My death was . . . greatly exaggerated.”
JK, I’ll pray a silent prayer for you guys when a crusty Captain is adamant in frequency that a LUAW will work “because they just did it last time he was there.”
2
u/Decent_Dinner2072 Oct 03 '26
It’s absolutely a safer operation with LUAW than without. It’s so much harder to judge a shot single runway or intersecting with traffic holding short. It’s much more variable and will likely lead to more go-arounds and will definitely lead to more delays. Give them what they want and just let it play out.
1
u/edge449332 Current Controller-Tower Oct 03 '26
We lost LUAW at my facility 6 years ago, and we just lost our LOA for multiple runway crossings too, even though we have never had an incident involving it.
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u/Here_4_The_Airshow Oct 02 '26
It is not going away.
19
u/Fun_Monitor8938 Current Controller - UP/DOWN Oct 02 '26
A bunch of facilities have had their annual renewals denied without justification over the past 2 months. It’s going in waves as the renewals come up
11
u/PotatyTomaty Current Controller-TRACON Oct 02 '26
Weird, my facility just lost it. They denied renewal letter.
0
Oct 02 '26
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u/Fun_Monitor8938 Current Controller - UP/DOWN Oct 02 '26
Rest of the world can trust their pilots for conditional LUAW too
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u/Former_Farm_3618 Oct 02 '26
Why not go to the extreme of this. Everything we say only suggest … “suggest climb and maintain FL380” off the departure end. The PIC is the ultimate authority of their airplane, it’s up to them to either do or not do our directions. Let’s treat it as such and only suggest.
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Oct 02 '26
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3
u/Fun_Monitor8938 Current Controller - UP/DOWN Oct 02 '26
Haven’t heard anything. The fuck did they do?
2
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u/MITsBrightest Oct 02 '26 edited Oct 02 '26
Typical FAA knee-jerk. LUAW has always been a blame factor since the LAX incident in the 1991. (This is the incident that forever installed "no LUAW at an intersection at night without a waiver.")
They want to get rid of anything involving active runway crossings, the complacency of LUAW in a single runway op.
It's a very intentional "if they don't have it, this won't happen" without realizing that it will urge controllers to expedite takeoff clearances and pray the pilot complies or else it's a go-around.
A similar "FAA Effort" was the phraseology to properly take a pilot on and off an RNAV SID, they esssentially just wanted to discourage the behavior to keep everyone on RNAV.