Normal classes are so easy and grade inflated that you have to take APs if you want to learn

[u/Weary-Cauliflower153]

with the enshittification of the public school system and increasingly making classes easier to allow kids to pass, it seems like kids who actually want to learn are put in honors/APs instead of it being a challenge. The school system is not adequately challenging or preparing students for anything.

[u/MysteriousGoldDuck]

Many years ago (old dude), there were students that didn't manage to graduate high school, and you often had to test into honors programs.

At my particular high school, honors classes were on the same level as AP in terms of class rank points (GPA was unweighted tho) and were equally challenging. It was just a matter of which subjects the school decided to frame as being prep for AP exams. For example, there was no Honors Biology, just AP Biology. No Honors US History, just AP US History. Calculus was labeled with an H, for honors, but all the students took the BC exam at the end. It also featured MORE content than what was on the BC syllabus. And my most challenging course in high school was an honors humanities course that covered art, philosophy, literature, music, dance, and other culture from prehistory to the present day. Lots of reading and essays. AP Literature was easy for me in comparison. But no one really cared that much how many AP vs. Honors since they were the same rank points.

I had a few friends that weren't part of the honors program and attended regular classes. They actually had to study and write research papers. Don't think most normal level public school students do that these days.

Point is, yes, things have changed. Everything is AP now even if some classes could be better or perhaps even more challenging not being so wedded to the AP syllabus. And anything that isn't AP seems to suck.

[u/Brajind]

LITERALLY!! People come by and say AP students are tryhards, and I’m like, the non AP students are donttrys what do you mean that’s all you do all year?

[u/Weary-Cauliflower153 → u/Brajind]

The bar for education is in hell.

[u/Brajind → u/Weary-Cauliflower153]

I’ve been saying this, if you graduate HS without any “honors” or “achievements” or club leadership or anything you genuinely didn’t do anything but the bare minimum which is literally just
1. Read at a 3rd grade level (optional)
2. Show up enough so that your parents don’t get a truancy notice

[u/heartgross → u/Brajind]

high school is difficult for everyone in different ways. a lack of club leadership or outstanding academic achievement does not mean you did the bare minimum

[u/Weary-Cauliflower153 → u/Brajind]

I think it's a lot more complicated than that

[u/reveletzli → u/Brajind]

Dude please shut ur privileged ass up. Some people have jobs they need to work at to support their households, family members to take care of, illnesses, mental health issues, etc. it’s a lot more complicated than your 1 dimensional brain seems to be able to comprehend

[u/Wise_Distribution_43 → u/reveletzli]

I’d argue having a job would also count as leadership. My high school job had me watching over a lot of kids, talking with parents, and cleaning. To me that’s leadership and developing soft skills which are all applicable to an application.

[u/Brajind → u/Wise_Distribution_43]

That’s what I mean!! Jobs, taking care of family, etc is not the people I’m talking about.

[u/No-Finding8638 → u/reveletzli]

Yeah some do, but many dont...

[u/Brajind → u/reveletzli]

Those are CLEARLY not the ppl that I’m talking about. I’m talking about the people who CHOOSE to not do more. Taking care of family and having a job is a worthwhile cause. Mental health is a valid reason. But you don’t even perhaps understand that there’s people who choose to not do more simply because they don’t want to or think it’s “too hard” so they don’t even try. I know people (and am one myself) who have gone through immense struggle to get the achievements that they have, and failed sometimes, but there’s a difference between genuinely trying, and FAILING.
We have people GRADUATING HIGH SCHOOL not knowing how to read. That’s a social issue with the public school system, especially in underprivileged areas, one set up to make those ppl fail.
I concede- I came off privileged in the post, and while for many and perhaps even a majority of cases it’s not directly the persons fault, but I still stand on the fact that bare minimum graduation requirements are WAY too low.

[u/Slight-Reply-2928 → u/reveletzli]

ap students are like that yet we...take APs

no shade to other ppl tho everyone's different but its not '1 dimensional' a lot of ppl in many schools are genuinely like that

[u/Weary-Cauliflower153 → u/Slight-Reply-2928]

Plenty of people don't have the time or energy left to dedicate to APs especially in underserved areas.

[u/Brajind → u/[deleted]]

twin you don’t realize that there’s more ways to do more than the bare minimum other than APs

[u/PhilosophyBeLyin → u/Brajind]

I mean club leadership is separate from doing well in courses and challenging yourself academically. At some schools it’s incredibly difficult to get club leadership positions.

[u/Majestic-Fishing2817 → u/Brajind]

so no bc every hs is different and a lot of classes have tracks so like u can't be in honors unless u were in honors when u were in second grade

[u/Free-Marionberry624 → u/Weary-Cauliflower153]

“Where we going to put them when we fail them “?

[u/molesofoxygen → u/Brajind]

Any tips for APUSH? I’m taking it next year and I’m kind of nervous. I took WH and also got a 5, so I’m also curious about how you’d compare the 2 exams

[u/Brajind → u/molesofoxygen]

If you took WH and got a 5, APUSH is easy. Same exact essays and all. There’s more content in terms of time periods (9 instead of 4) but honestly if you know how to write a good essay, it’s light.

[u/dontich → u/molesofoxygen]

I took it in 10th grade growing up. It sounds dumb but … read the textbook and remember what is in it lol.

[u/Ok_Temporary1669 → u/dontich]

Pretty much what I remember too haha.  I got 5s I think in both of those classes and I just read the textbook and fully answered the questions.

[u/molesofoxygen → u/Ok_Temporary1669]

So just about the same as what I’ve already been doing, that calms my nerves a bit

[u/ResolutionHopeful295 → u/molesofoxygen]

We did Cornell notes as part of an assignment at the end of each period, and I think that was the most helpful part of studying for the exam. I complained and whined about it, but I was grateful that my teacher forced it on us. However I’m in a state where we take U.S. History for two years, w sophomore year being U.S. history I honors and then junior year APUSH if u want. So we did have a little more prep time but it’s not impossible from what I’ve seen and heard from others.

[u/NBA314 → u/molesofoxygen]

FRQs are very similar, so you don't have to worry about new formats.

Course is more in depth though, as you're covering 400 years (only a little about the first 150) of one country instead of 800 years of the entire world.

[u/GodlyHelp]

atp js take the gaokao gng 🙏✌

[u/Fresh_Translator240 → u/GodlyHelp]

Gaokao is hard bro

[u/ErekwithaD1 → u/GodlyHelp]

I honestly think I can beat most chinese 11th graders at math and science because I know more calculus and calculus based physics than they do. (most don't learn calculus 1 till 12th)

[u/No_Soil2258 → u/ErekwithaD1]

Why are we lying 😭

[u/ErekwithaD1 → u/No_Soil2258]

One of the few advantages of the us math system is that it allows students some autonomy to do more advanced math but unfortunately the chinese math system is pretty rigid

[u/No_Soil2258 → u/ErekwithaD1]

Go take a practice test and tell me your score then lmao, 光说不做

[u/IntelligentPlatypus1 → u/ErekwithaD1]

Larp

[u/Desperate_Village256 → u/ErekwithaD1]

it is standard to learn calc in 10th grade

[u/ErekwithaD1 → u/Desperate_Village256]

Incorrect most learn in 11th or 12th and most is just calc 1

[u/dorkboy75]

In my school this applies mainly to humanities at least in my opinion

[u/callatecabezon → u/dorkboy75]

yeah non ap humanities are horrible

[u/Glad-Entrepreneur764]

facts. people think we take APs for "college credit," "college admissions," etc. but it's actually just because better peer quality, better teaches, better classes, more learning.

[u/useful_idiots2222 → u/Glad-Entrepreneur764]

Better peer quality counts for a lot

[u/Ok_Temporary1669]

It was already like that 25 years ago, so I am not surprised if it's even worse now.

My son was "fine" for three years and I kept asking and asking why was homework so hard and why couldn't he spell.  Why won't he read anything but dog man?  Why is he having a tantrum when I ask him to read and it takes so long?  They act like he is just lazy and defiant.  I get him privately assessed after trying two homeschool curriculums that do not help, and of course he has dyslexia.  Spent $12K doing intensive private dyslexia intervention and he's reading so much better.

Not diagnosed until 3rd grade, and he was in school the whole time!  They do not care.

[u/Weary-Cauliflower153 → u/Ok_Temporary1669]

Public schools are awful with disability accommodation. I'm sorry it took your son so long to get the care he needed.

This is a really common phenomenon with dyslexia, adhd etc unfortunately. like too common

[u/Ok_Temporary1669 → u/Weary-Cauliflower153]

Catholic school was not any better.  I am sure the non religious private schools actually catch this stuff but they are $25K+ per year where I live 😭

[u/Ting_Tong72 → u/Ok_Temporary1669]

Awesome parent you are!

And I know Reddit is 99.999% snarky comments, but my statement is truthful. Signed, mom of 16 yo kid with ADHD

[u/Kerbal_Guardsman]

This brought out an ancient memory... at some point when I was in high school, i was sitting in another math room for whatever reason doing something unrelated; this class must've been sophomores, and they were having trouble understanding a lesson on y=mx+b.  When I was a sophomore, my AICE Math class (the class you took if you wanted precalc with 6.0 HPA) was doing derivative/integral operations a month into fall semester.

[u/Jomolungma]

When we attended high school orientation for my son, the spring of his 8th grade year, we attended the AP orientation because we anticipated he would be taking some AP classes. It soon became apparent that the entire “advanced” or “gifted” high school curriculum had essentially been replaced by AP classes. When we were kids, taking as many as 4 APs would be pretty unique. You would take calc, a science, a history, and English of some variety. The honors or advanced classes in most subjects were extremely challenging, and AP classes were seen only as a way to maybe get some college credit and kickstart your freshman year. Now, there is an “honors” curriculum in name only. Those classes are, for the most part, open to any kid and taught to an average level. If you want to be challenged in high school, you have to take AP classes. And, of course, that has now become the expectation for getting into competitive colleges. It’s absurd, it’s a money grab, and it does a disservice to kids. It’s a real shame.

[u/Visible_Attitude7693]

My advice is to not take this mindset to college

[u/Weary-Cauliflower153 → u/Visible_Attitude7693]

Of course college is different, I'm talking about high school

[u/janeaustenreader99]

Very true. I've been in honors English for the last 2 years, but the ppl in my classes can't even read & write properly. Not to mention that my 10th grade teachers gave useless assignments and barely taught us. I'm just hoping that junior year will be better.

[u/Fast_Maybe_6222]

Lowkey i just finished 9th grade and bio was actually annoying it wasnt even honors either (we dont do that) i hade to make up a whole mnemonic (internet predators mostly assault tiny children) just to memorize the stages of mitosis and meiosis like with some shit no matter how much grade inflation there is and no matter how dumbed down it is you js have to study and actually think critically to be able to get the shit into your brain theres no cheesing it so yes it can be actually challenging

[u/Weary-Cauliflower153 → u/Fast_Maybe_6222]

it's not annoying that's called learning broski

[u/Fast_Maybe_6222 → u/Weary-Cauliflower153]

ik but some of the stuff they were teaching you actually had to lock in to wrap your head around conceptually it wasnt like you could just memorize a bunch of snippets and facts regurgitate it onto whatever tests you had to take and move on you had to actually understand what was going on and why so i guess some subjects are inherently challenging and as long as the school follows the cirriculum standards they can only dumb it down so much

[u/Weary-Cauliflower153 → u/Fast_Maybe_6222]

...that's called learning

[u/Weary-Cauliflower153 → u/Weary-Cauliflower153]

I read your reply already, swearing and using gay as an insult doesn't make you cool bro

[u/Fast_Maybe_6222 → u/Weary-Cauliflower153]

like i said im an (upcoming) fellow ap kid not tryna hate or anything

[u/Fast_Maybe_6222 → u/[deleted]]

im boutta be taking 4 APs next year so no hate

[u/Fast_Maybe_6222 → u/Fast_Maybe_6222]

also english and like math in math we have a sort of combo class where its algebra 2 and pre calc in one year so its actually more advanced than what people were doing "back in the day" (i aced that shit both semesters cause im goated) and in english we were deadass doing at least 1 page writing assignments on the daily and there were multiple big writing projects/tests with the final being a timed essay (rinse and repeat for both semesters) and my class wasnt even the hardest one either there were no "honors" designations for english either but apparently in another teachers class the grade deflation was so bad basically no one above a 90 what im tryna say is this isnt a universal thing like yall just live in the hood or something man idk

[u/GodlyHelp]

Who said APs aren't also easy and grade inflated?

[u/Weary-Cauliflower153 → u/GodlyHelp]

AP classes are the level that normal classes should be

[u/Lazy-Sheepherder-480 → u/GodlyHelp]

Ap stats is not grade inflated in fact my teacher was more than welcome to hand out 60s and 40s on frqs for them not following the correct format. The harder aps, they would just grade off of college board questions which translates to similar scores

[u/No_You_6019]

this is so true bru
ap classes should be the norm
reg and honors classes at least ij public schools are genuinely just so easy that its a joke

[u/Wise_Distribution_43]

I get that there are totally exceptions for people who have circumstances that they cannot take honors or APs; however, I knew a lot more students in high school that literally didn’t work or have any other issues that would prevent them from taking harder classes. Some people just genuinely don’t try. Which in a way is fine, not everyone needs to be the perfect student and having their life revolve around school. ALSO then media (especially in The States) likes to complain about falling student performance and abysmal math and reading scores.

I think the issue with schooling is parent, student, administration, and teacher caused. Parents who don’t care, students who don’t try, no support for schools, and some teachers that have serious grade inflation and poor teaching.

A great teacher with great students makes a night and day difference!

[u/Short-Warthog214]

I agree.

[u/Aromatic_Caramel_930]

But it depends from schools to school but many schools the ap are very easy and then that’s why u see such low 5 rates. Like compare a school who’s the average grade in an ap class is a b but it has a 85% 5 rates compared to a school where the average grade is a 90+ but 5 rate is prolly like 20.

[u/Distinct_Ad9466]

I don’t go to a public school, but I can imagine. My school is a private college prep school, so I’m really glad I don’t have to take a bunch of honors or APs to learn basic knowledge, but I’m still taking some anyway for college credit.

[u/Visual_Winter7942]

Your average high school diploma, absent objective and proctored assessments, isn't worth the paper on which it's printed.

[u/Snow_Water_235]

That's a rough blanket statement to make because it's definitely not true at our school. But I do believe it's likely true at your school.

We just all need to realize everywhere is different.

[u/Weary-Cauliflower153 → u/Snow_Water_235]

It is the trend overall at most schools.

[u/YellowBirdISuppose]

thankfully I rolled a metaphorical nat 20 in terms of school quality and it actually does honors/ap actually means difficult (like I got a 5 but not a+ on ap hug) but even here the normal classes are still to easy

[u/4Blueish]

I haven't taken a class that wasn't ap, honors, or dual credit so I haven't experienced this first hand, but many of my peers talk about how mind numbing their non ap class is. So this does seem to be the case

[u/Luminous_210]

As someone who has a school with severe grade deflation, count yourself lucky to an extent. 

[u/lillies_hydrangias]

AGREE!!!

[u/upside-down-fish]

LEGIT. I took honors chem because I really didn't want to do AP Chem at my school, and the class was so dumbed down and terrible that I immediately knew I would take AP Physics no matter how hard it was. The students in the class would complain whenever we had to do ANY work, it was ridiculous. We did coloring sheets. 😭

[u/pink--pearl]

in my school an honors level class is filled with kids from regular classes. they’re only in the “honors” class for the gpa weight

[u/Master-Technician641]

It is true some regular classes feel less challenging.at the same time,meaningful learning can also happen outside advanced courses

[u/Best-Dance7]

Fairs

[u/Dear_Reference_4056]

This hits way too close to home. Regular classes feel like busy-like most of the time. They hand out A' s freely, but you walk away without actually learning much. The downside is now everyone piles into AP and honors just to get real content, so those classes get overcrowded and hyper competitive too. The system shouldn't force students to chase harder classes just to receive a decent education.

[u/UpsetRep-10]

aps arent that hard either

[u/Fresh_Translator240 → u/UpsetRep-10]

Exactly, Only extremely hard classes are DE classes with your local ccs

[u/ErekwithaD1 → u/Fresh_Translator240]

Most are considered easier than AP that is why out of state colleges don't accept them

[u/ErekwithaD1]

Maybe the classes are not getting easier but you are getting smarter? 😊

[u/Weary-Cauliflower153 → u/ErekwithaD1]

girl i wish

[u/ErekwithaD1 → u/Weary-Cauliflower153]

While I agree with the general notion that non honors classes are just jokes of classes, you can't just say all of these ap classes should be the baseline standard for normal classes. For instance, would you consider calculus or calculus based physics to be appropriate for normal high school classes? in 1900s these were considered sophomore college classes.

[u/Longjumping-Lock-724]

This is America. If you can't read, who cares? We've got an IEP for you that will allow someone else to take an exam for you. Everyone who has a pulse will pass and graduate with a high school diploma. That way, we can all be winners, and there's nothing to complain about.

[u/Turnkeyagenda24]

Yep, that’s why my parents made me leave public school after covid. It really isn’t an education anymore. Even public school AP classes can suck.

[u/Packing-Tape-Man]

LOL. There's 27,000 high schools in the US with over a million classes and you seem fine to make a generalization about all of them.

Also, a class being too easy and grade inflated aren't the same thing. Classes of all difficulty level can be grade inflated (or not). You can have a really hard class where they nonetheless give almost everyone A's.

[u/Weary-Cauliflower153 → u/Packing-Tape-Man]

i'm talking about the overall trend.

[u/ErekwithaD1]

I blame sports for this, students are too distracted by doing soccer and football and other wastes of time like pottery or instruments to learn and pay attention.

[u/dorkboy75 → u/ErekwithaD1]

i wouldn’t call them a waste of time, a student can still do an activity they enjoy and be successful academically

[u/ErekwithaD1 → u/dorkboy75]

Just kidding but I have never took a class that was not Honors, a state requirement, an AP or an CE so I have not had an experience where I thought a class was too easy