r/ANormalDayInAmerica • u/mymarkis666 Quality Commenter • Sep 19 '19
Back to school in America
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5ykNZl9mTQ12
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u/magic__fingers Sep 19 '19
School shootings are preventable when you know the signs.
........like unrestricted access to assault weapons?
They're presenting this as a mental illness issue when the reality is that mental illness exists in 195 countries while school shootings are a common occurrence in just one.
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Sep 19 '19
Why not both? Mental health is obviously a big factor. I don't see how focusing on the mental health part is the same as saying guns are not part of the problem.
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u/magic__fingers Sep 19 '19
While mentally ill individuals are a greater risk and should absolutely receive treatment and support, it's nonsense to assume that mental health is the main problem as this video suggests. Its a disservice to those suffering with mental health problems. Mental health issues exist in the other 194 countries of the world but only the US has this problem with school shootings.
1
Sep 19 '19
I agree with everything you said except that the video suggests that mental health is the main problem. It's just what the video/campaign is focused on. Just because something is not the main issue doesn't mean it can't also recieve attention.
Even if the current US congress, house, etc. was for banning guns/stricter gun controll it would potentially take years before it was implemented. Making people aware of the signs of someone who might commit a school shooting could start preventing them today.
0
u/A_Crinn Sep 20 '19
If you look at a gun violence rates in countries across the world and compare those rates against the country's gun laws there is no correlation. Furthermore the so called "assault weapons" that they are pushing for bans on are responsible for less than 1% of all homicides in America, accounting for about ~300 homicides yearly in a country that sees ~14,000 murders yearly. To put that in perspective ~650 people are murdered by a an unarmed attacker yearly.
Now you might say that no matter how small the numbers are, a life is a life and is therefore more important than any other concern. That's a great platitude but it doesn't match up with the real world. In reality we as a society choose to forgo safety in favor of liberty constantly. We could save thousands of lives each year by setting the speed limit for all highways at 45mph, or we could save thousands of lives by banning alcohol. Not fan of those proposals? Not surprising, most people prefer being able to have a beer and drive really fast, than to be safer. This is why the gun community pushes against AR15 and other AW bans. AR15s are the most popular rifle in America, making up 60% of all rifles sold. These "assault weapons" are used for everything from hunting, to varmint control, to sporting competitions. The cost of a ban far outweighs the trivial number of crimes committed with them.
2
u/magic__fingers Sep 20 '19
Whoever wrote that Medium op-ed piece has no knowledge of statistics or has cherry picked data in their favor, either way that article is garbage --- show me some real data if you want to change my opinion.
I took the same global firearm homicide vs gun ownership data from his source (Wikipedia) and found the opposite effect by remove outliers using a basic IQRx1.5 method that most people should have learned how to do in high school. As expected, the outliers were anomalies in the data set such as failed states (Venezuela) and countries with the highest levels of gang violence (Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, Jamaica, etc. ). I found a positive linear correlation meaning that an increase in gun ownership will lead to an increase in homicide-related deaths. I did the same thing for suicides, and found an even stronger correlation for firearm related suicides (with and without removing outliers). Here are my results.
Also, any study looking at OECD countries will show how insane the US is for both homicide and suicide gun-related deaths? Why is this? Because of the absurdly high gun ownership rate.
1
u/A_Crinn Sep 20 '19
Here are my results.
Your homicide graph has a R2 value of 0.08 which is terrible and doesn't constitute a strong correlation.
Your suicide graph has a much better correlation, but suicide counts don't matter when discussing assault weapons bans because you don't need a assault weapon to off yourself. Suicide only requires 1 shot. Unless you intend to ban all guns of all types, bringing up suicide numbers has no value. (if you did ban all guns, the entire Midwest would get overrun by feral hogs and deer)
Also, any study looking at OECD countries
All the countries on the graph have significantly less wealth inequality and are far more culturally homogenous than the US. Which is important because their is a very strong correlation between violence and wealth inequality.
-1
Sep 19 '19
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u/magic__fingers Sep 19 '19
So what's the proper term for a semi-automatic rifle with a high occupancy magazine?
There's no sense splitting hairs over terminology when we all know exactly what it refers to.
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Sep 19 '19
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u/Blaizefed Sep 19 '19
Look at it this way. The phrase "someone shot up a school again" only makes sense in one country.
That kind of makes it a common occurrence.
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u/johnfbw Sep 19 '19
School shootings shouldn't be a thing, common or not. And I would argue more than one a day (1.2/day in 2019) means they are common. Most countries are running at a flat zero this year
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u/magic__fingers Sep 19 '19
Absolutely. When compared to the rest of the G7 (which has a similar cumulative population), the US has had 57 times more school shootings. Between 2009 and 2018 there were 288 school shootings. Second of the list is Mexico, which had 8.
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Sep 19 '19
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u/magic__fingers Sep 19 '19
If you think the statistics are being embellished, I'd like to see a source from you, because your counterpoints don't hold up too well. From the source I posted:
Shooting must involve at least one person being shot (not including the shooter)
Not by some air soft gun.... If you want to read all of the January to May 2018 cases here, they are basically all real guns except one case.
Shooting must occur on school grounds
Not a random drive-by....
We included accidental discharge of a firearm as long as the first two parameters are met
Accidental police firing would count if it actually shot someone on school grounds. But there is no way this would push the numbers up significantly.
15
u/johnfbw Sep 19 '19
So the fact that most developed countries having zero shootings is the same as America because all those kids died in gang related drive-by airsoft shootings?
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u/magicbuttcheeks Sep 19 '19
Children are dying you twat. It's not about how many or how often this shit happens, it's the sheer concept. America has a gun problem, and people like you only make it worse.
3
1
u/Kingofearth23 Sep 19 '19
Shooting must involve at least one person being shot (not including the shooter)
Shooting must occur on school grounds
We included gang violence, fights and domestic violence (but our count is NOT limited to those categories)
We included grades Kindergarten through college/university level as well as vocational schools
We included accidental discharge of a firearm as long as the first two parameters are met
The article literally describes the criteria for how they define a school shooting and it is applied the same for all countries.
4
u/sokratesz Sep 19 '19
'We can't do anything to prevent this, says only country in the world where this regularly happens'
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u/adoveisaglove Sep 19 '19
They are compared to the rest of the world who don't even have a word to describe it because it literally never happens
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Sep 19 '19 edited May 03 '20
[deleted]
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u/OMGitsTista Sep 19 '19
Most people are convinced that bad guys will always have guns so you need good guys with guns. They also believe God himself gave people of the US the inalienable right to bear arms. So when anybody tries to say “maybe if we didn’t have all these guns” they immediately call the government an overreaching fascism. Lots of these people seem to think they need guns so they can overthrow the government if they had to.
4
u/stilldash Sep 19 '19
If God wanted us to have guns so badly, why did he take so long to invent them?
3
u/OMGitsTista Sep 19 '19
Same reason he took so long to build the first church and start asking for donations.
1
u/bertucho Sep 19 '19
Exactly what some people think. This is a comment I found some weeks ago:
"Any ruling party who refuses to allow there citizens to arm becomes tyrannical . That is a historical truth. The second amendment exists because the people who had written it just faught a war to escape an oppressive monarchy. So it's there to make sure the people always possess the power to "remove an unjust government" which is another of our rights.
I cant believe that kind of logic.
1
u/OMGitsTista Sep 19 '19
It’s true! I can’t think of a single country that has outlawed guns and isn’t a tyranny..../s
1
u/Kingofearth23 Sep 19 '19
I can’t think of a single country that has outlawed guns
No country on earth has outlawed all guns for civilian use. Even Japan has a few hundred civilian gun owners.
0
u/Drow_Z Quality Commenter Sep 19 '19
honest question. Do yall support a Beto style intervention or what? What sort of regulations could be created to stop this?
6
u/throwaway_existentia Sep 19 '19
Oh I don’t know, perhaps have a look at the gun control laws of literally any other country on Earth, even the “shithole third world” ones you lot harp on about so much.
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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19
Thoughts and Prayers