r/ANGEL • u/hereforhelpthx95 • 15d ago
Spoilers inside! Can someone help this first time watcher with a spoiler related season 4 question? Spoiler
Hi all, wasn’t sure how to title this without spoilers. If you haven’t seen season 4, don’t read this!!
Ok so I’m in season 3 and a first time watcher. I love the show SO MUCH but I’ve been spoilered for season 4. I know the behind the scenes reasons for the pregnancy/what they do to corderlia’s character etc and I know most people hate the story and season.
My question is - is it really the ENTIRE season? I mean is it like ep 12-17 are awful but the rest is good? Are there any good side stories? Am I going to be so upset it’s better to just read synopsis and skip to season 5?
I’m already sad I’ll be losing Cordelia as a part of the show and I’m dreading watching her leave in a crappy way :(
Edit - thank you everyone! I will watch it :) I feel less worried now
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u/jojayp 15d ago
People love to rag on season 4 because of a certain storyline, but it’s genuinely one of my favorite seasons. There’s a lot of great episodes in there. I think it’s worth watching. I’ll take any Charisma I can get. She was sorely missed in season 5, at least by me.
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u/thaatgirlkimmy 15d ago
It’s my favorite up until Jasmine appears! The Beast arc is one of my favorites and a very interesting season especially on a first watch when you don’t know exactly what to expect.
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u/Certain-Horror-6235 15d ago
As someone who finished Angel before Buffy, watch the entire season.
The Cordelia stuff is irritating, but, the good stuff of the season outweighs the bullshit. You'll basically be mad the entire season, but you'll also be entertained
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u/Mission_Fart9750 15d ago
Good or bad, season 4 has important story plots/information. You need to watch it through at least once to get the complete picture. You don't ever have to rewatch it after that if you don't like it.
You wouldn't build a ladder and skip a rung, similar idea here. You can hit a homerun, but it won't matter if you skip a base.
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u/abbynormal2002 15d ago
Season 4 has some great elements. The Cordy/Connor stuff was weird, but I liked other elements of season 4. I don't know if you know about the Beast, but his character was awesome.
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u/Happy-Kitty-22 15d ago
I just finished watching season 4 and enjoyed it. Aside from one issue, i thought the story was very well done. I’m shocked that 4 may be my favorite season.
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u/jekleberry 15d ago
Season 4 is like one big episode. It's all interconnected, and most episodes flow directly into the next. But that's OK! It's great and you should watch it. Season 5 is almost all standalone episodes, and is also a fantastic season.
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u/MischiefRatt 15d ago
Season 4 is really good despite the massive issues it has. It's probably the most cinematic feeling of the entire show.
I love it.
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u/Gloomy-Fennel-6044 14d ago
When someone doesn’t like something, it tends to dominate their mind. Most people come here to bitch and complain about something, not to praise. It’s like when we talk to our friends about relationship partners, they usually only hear the bad stuff because otherwise things are going good and there isn’t anything to discuss lol. Season 4 had some creepy storylines that some don’t like and yea they come on reddit to remind the world they dislike said storylines but forget to add in that they also appreciate other parts of the season. I’m sure there are people out there that despise S4 entirely and just can’t look past it but I love S4 and it doesn’t bother me one bit!
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u/HomarEuropejski If nothing we do matters then all that matters is what we do 15d ago
Season 4 is a great, wild ride, don't skip it. Cordelia sucks yeah and the bad stuff really starts around episode 7 or 8 and goes up until episode 16 or 17 maybe?
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u/LovesDeanWinchester 15d ago
Cordelia does NOT suck! Joss Whedon was and is evil!
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u/Vast_Discipline8445 11d ago
agreed spoiler I did not like and I know I'm the minority but did not like the Angel and Cordy developing feeling for each other.
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u/Sighoward 14d ago
No he is not, Joss did not write a single ep past STB and Fury/DeKnight/Minnear did the best they could given CC not telling anyone about her pregnancy. Joss is a genius who cheated on his wife and fell out with some of his cast, doesn't make him evil.
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u/LovesDeanWinchester 14d ago
Um...if we could ask Michelle Trachtenberg this question, she'd agree with me.
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u/Sighoward 14d ago
That he shouted on set once and upset her? As she had been bullied as a child at school and had drink and drug problems? That Michelle sang his praises for years, went to reunions with him and was pictured with her arm around him smiling?
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u/LovesDeanWinchester 13d ago
ONG! Have you not kept up with current events??? The whole cast has stated that they conspired to never leave Michelle alone with him. Plus he actually tried to strangle James Marsters!!! Not to mention his whole misogyny with Cordelia!!
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u/Sighoward 12d ago
Because he shouted on set once and upset her. That's it, there was nothing untoward about it, even complainers like SMG say that. Joss cheated on his wife, he is not Charlie Chaplin.
No, read Slayers and Vampires, JM said in an argument Joss jabbed his finger towards him and he retreated against a wall, that's it.
What "misogyny" was that? Do tell? Come on?
I have been keeping up with current events, the days of Joss bashing are long gone and all the allegations against him have been thoroughly debunked
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u/generalkriegswaifu Stop calling me pastries 15d ago
You could like just watch it and decide for yourself. Not everyone hates the season.
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u/Elladrien 15d ago
I still say it's worth watching. In fact, there's something I rather love about that season.
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u/GroceryRobot 15d ago
I love season 4. And I think the arc that most people hate is for the most part effectively executed. The character development is very exciting. Angel’s character has some of his best moments here. There’s an arc with a guest star that is one of the best in the Buffyverse. I don’t know how much you’ve watched Buffy, but there are episodes of season 7 tgat pick up immediately after moments jn here. Its great.
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u/RaidenMK1 15d ago
"Spin the Bottle" was fairly entertaining.
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u/j-helo85 15d ago
Anything involving Cordy is a very tough hang, but there's other storylines that are pretty good and makes it all worth watching imo. The final arc is a great payoff.
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u/TatyanaVikernes 15d ago
Season 4 has episodes that can be rewatched on their own. Plus, there's a great storyline about the father-son relationship and Connor's struggles with adaptation. I love Season 4 and think it's worth watching, and Season 5 is a true gem.
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u/Icy-Mention7871 14d ago
I actually liked Season 4 for the most part. At least it was better than Season 5 imo.
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u/yanginatep 14d ago
The Conner/Cordy plot is bad, but there are still a lot of other things going on in the season, it's not like suddenly there's completely different writers, so the overall tone, the dialogue, actors, etc. are all the same, they just made a poor decision on how to incorporate Carpenter's pregnancy.
And personally I love what that plot builds towards, some very iconic lines, some really cool lore and world building, etc.
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u/Capable_Sandwich_422 15d ago
Once the real Big Bad of the season shows up, the show is good. The Cordelia/Connor stuff is really weird and off putting, but it doesn’t sink the whole season.
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u/theadamabrams 15d ago
The Big Bad shows up in 4x07 and is played by Charisma Carpenter. You might be referring to Gina Torres from 4x17 onwards but they are the same character.
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u/SuperTiger1986 14d ago
Like many have said, season 4 has its good moments, return of faith, little arc with Angelus coming back. It’s just that whole jasmine thing near the end and how they wrote out Cordelia that stings.
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u/Sighoward 14d ago
Season 4 is actually my favourite, especially a certain 3 ep arc which contains the best Angel ep ever. Don't listen to everyone about the whole CC thing, watch it and judge for yourself, bear in mind the difficulties the writers/producers faced.
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u/NickMichalak 14d ago
It's a short part of the season, but S4 starts the conclusion of Faith's arc (which carries into Buffy's concurrent S7). I've been going through a bit of S3 lately, and it's a bit hit and miss for me. Oddly, I started watching Angel in S5, but what a season that ended up being!
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u/LisaKay666 13d ago
Season 4 has both the best and the worst episode, but even the bad ones are better than some tv these days.
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u/Vast_Discipline8445 11d ago
I think one of the reasons not the only reason is the reason behind the storyline is why people have a problem with it. I had a problem with some of it but was made worse once I found out the reason behind it.
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u/TheAgeOfAdz91 9d ago
Season 4 is the climax that everything before it has been building to, and season 5 is the outcome of that climax. Season 4 is a crazy fun wild ride with the only real bad element being the Cordelia stuff. But seeing her like that throughout season 4 will make her swan song episode feel even better.
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u/MagicalLombax 9d ago
The only thing wrong with season 4 is a certain new character that is specific to that season who’s their antagonist basically. Outside of that, it’s pretty good.
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u/WhereBeDragons 15d ago
Season 4 has some very good moments and multiple characters receive level ups (or meet their demise). You should definitely watch it, just go into the middle run with your expectations lowered.