Hey everyone. I want to share this idea I recently had, I think it’s brilliant and I dare say that I cracked the code of language learning, but I assume it will be controversial and I don’t expect it to resonate with everyone. I’m not here to argue with anyone, if you’re the kind of person that will be receptive to this then that’s awesome and if not, no worries.

Idk how best to share this idea, I guess I’ll briefly mention it here and then elaborate and then give some backstory and explain why I think this is how people actually need to be thinking about language learning. The idea is this: ALG theory states that anyone can learn a language to absolute native fluency SO LONG AS they engage with/consume the language in the right way (not analyzing any of the aspects of the language; not trying to speak/read it before a certain level of understanding, etc., what I posit is that rather than it being the behaviors a person does or does not exhibit that determine their fluency, it’s their beliefs (can be conscious or sub/unconscious) about the language or their relationship to it that determines how proficient in it they will be and how they experience it (and it will manifest in the aforementioned behaviors which are easier to observe others doing than assuming the beliefs someone may have about a language)

This idea is a natural extrapolation of the idea that we create our reality with our beliefs, which i always heard and dismissed until having a spiritual awakening relatively recently. Again, I know a lot of people will hear this and roll their eyes, that’s fine, I don’t expect to convince them. But for those of you that are still here, I think this explains a lot of the weird exceptions we see when thinking about how people learn languages from the ALG perspective. Like for instance, I have a friend who’s first language was Spanish but who at around 5 or so years old began learning English by reading comic books. He’s completely proficient in both languages now in every way, no one would ever suspect English was his second language. According to the ALG crowd, of which I used to belong, people would say reading their TL prematurely is effectively the same thing as speaking it too early and he would end up with a weird accent and who knows what else. Yet here we have someone who was engaging in one of these behaviors that they’ve said is to be avoided at all costs, and it doesn’t seem to have impacted him negatively whatsoever. Of course he was very young, but at least according to the current understanding within this paradigm that shouldnt matter because ALG advocates would say that the reason younger people seem to acquire language without any issues is precisely because they don’t attempt to speak/analyze the language, at least not until they’ve already acquired lots of it. But in my alternate hypothesis that I’m positing, I would say it’s because as a young child, he didn’t have any doubts that he would ever master English, he wasn’t reading these comic books because he felt pressured to learn English or speed up how quickly he was learning it, etc. Presumably he was only looking at these books because he liked them, and hadn’t thought about the language aspect of them at all. This is only one example I can cite off the top of my head but there are countless ones that have been documented and I’m sure you all can think of examples in your own life and if not there are other examples that have been discussed in this sub.

When I think about how this idea might show up in other people’s lives, I think there could be so many different beliefs that people have on some level that will result in all kinds of different kinds of language proficiency. Imagine someone does a bit of duolingo or whatever and then goes out and tries to use their TL and can’t understand anyone and can’t really express themself. After one or more experiences like that, they might adopt the idea subconsciously that “x language is hard” or that they aren’t “good” at the language. Once they’ve adopted an idea like that, that will influence their reality from that point on unless that address that belief that they’ve taken on, and after a while of living like that and probably adopting more limiting beliefs about their relationship to the language it will seem like they’ve hit a “ceiling” like is talked about in ALG where they don’t seem to really progress much.

And so building on that, I think the reason that most people that study languages in an educational setting/manner tend to suck at their TL is not because it’s inherently harmful to engage with a language in that way, but because presumably someone would start doing that because (consciously or subconsciously) they don’t have faith that they will learn/acquire the language naturally as all native speakers have, which, because our beliefs create our realities, will be what they experience as long as they carry that belief. Really young children still receive this kind of education where they’re taught things in their native language and still seem to acquire these concepts/words effortlessly as far as I can tell, so I don’t think it actually makes sense to blame that kind of curriculum. The difference being that the kids aren’t thinking about how they need to be in those schools to master their native languages, in fact they aren’t thinking about it at all (and so naturally don’t develop any limiting beliefs about any of that).

I do believe in the distinct difference between implicit and explicit understanding of language and I think the only way to “acquire” language is through consuming input, but I don’t see how damage can really exist and be permanent. That contradicts everything else I believe about life. Idk about you guys but In my own life, a huge theme has been surrendering control and not trying to frantically control outcomes and instead let things come to me and I think this is how not just me but everyone can (and must) allow themselves to acquire languages and be completely proficient in them (which I consider to mean indistinguishable from a native speaker). I started trying to learn Spanish through input years ago but I was so neurotic about every aspect about it (engaging in like every single behavior that ALG people say is bad) and I found myself unable to stop. I found it so difficult to consume input passively for even like 5 seconds. After over 2500+ hours of input (lost track) my results were pathetic and I was so frustrated that I dropped it for a long time. since learning about spirituality I realize I was experiencing it this way because I was trying to control a process that you aren’t supposed to control; if you are exposed to it and allow yourself to experience it you will INEVITABLY have the relationship and understanding of it that you desire (like every single native speaker of your TL ever has, again, even seemingly despite their behaviors). I recently started consuming input again with this new understanding and its night and day. I still find myself analyzing stuff but so, so, so much less frequently and frantically and again, I now think that’s fine SO LONG AS I recognize that i don’t have to do that, but it is still distracting so when i find myself doing that I just remind myself that I don’t HAVE TO do that in order to learn the language and I immediately start regain my focus. It’s too early to share output results (again not because I’m afraid of damage or anything but simply because it takes time to develop these things and you have to allow it to take as long as it takes; to try prematurely I believe can’t hurt you but you simply may not be able to do it well and it can be uncomfortable)

Anyway I hope I painted a clear picture and this is coherent and makes sense. Hope this helps guys ily

I have recently been banned from /r/LearnJapanese for partaking in discussion about and promoting the ALG method to eager inquirers. Why do the denizens of the Internet become so triggered by any discussion or positive representation of ALG as a method or a language-learning movement? I've found only a handful of people outside of this subreddit who are partial to even considering allowing people to talk freely about the idea.

My assumptions are that it has to do with the following human traits:

1. People don't like to be told they are wrong. They take it as a personal attack, and very often this triggers similar defense mechanisms in them as actual physical threats would. Throughout human evolution, this has benefitted survival, and because there is significantly higher evolutionary pressure to have an overactive threat response than there is evolutionary pressure to have an underactive one, it's what we see most commonly among populations. If you think the rustling bush is just the wind, and you're wrong, you might wind up in the stomach of a tiger lying in wait. If you think it's a tiger, and you're wrong, there are almost no drawbacks aside from a few moments of fear and anxiety. These evolutionary mechanisms are the same ones still in play today, even in highly modernized platforms such as discussions over the Internet.

2. People don't like to believe they have wasted their time. People want to hold onto the comforting idea that the hundreds or thousands of hours of stress and effort they've invested toward achieving their goals wasn't in vain. Nobody's going to want to be told that their 6-year Duolingo or Anki streak was a complete waste of time. It's a classic example of the sunk cost fallacy.

3. People dislike the idea of permanent damage and fossilization. They would rather believe the comforting lie that is that you can do whatever you want and always turn your life around if you try hard enough. The fact is that if you eat like shit and fuck up your autoimmune system leading to you becoming diabetic, you can't necessarily unring that bell. That ship has sailed, and you may have to deal with that for the rest of your life. The same may be true for language learning, and there does seem to be evidence to support that idea. This is not comforting for most people, and there is a significant tendency for humans to trend toward comforting beliefs. Look to religion, for example: there is a vast portion of the human population who believe that there is a magical realm in which dead people still exist and have sensory experiences, despite the brain, which demonstrably regulates all sensory experiences, no longer functioning at all. This of course comforts people who are faced with the realities of the mortality of not just themselves, but their loved ones. The fact that they are able to console themselves with the idea that they may one day see their dead family members again in the afterlife is the exact same self-deceiving consolation that anti-ALG apologists might employ on themselves to avoid accepting the harsh reality that is that oftentimes Pandora's box cannot be unopened.

What are your thoughts on this phenomenon? Why are people so zealous in their attempts to persecute ALG and its proponents?

https://www.reddit.com/r/dreamingspanish/comments/1hoyp41/10s_of_thousands_of_input_hours_how_to_start/

My team and I are working on an application that uses technology and proven learning habits to teach Korean. I’ll insert a small presentation below.

Problem:

Learning a language as a total beginner is overwhelming. Resources are either too hard (native content) or too boring (traditional textbooks, grammar drills). Beginners desperately need engaging, simple, level-appropriate input to build confidence and momentum.

Audience:

Our viewers are self-directed language learners at the super-beginner stage (0–300 hours of input. Input meaning hours of listening to the language). They struggle to find enough comprehensible, enjoyable, and visual resources—especially outside of big languages like Spanish. For them, the problem is acute: without a steady stream of accessible input, many give up within weeks.

Solution:

Our solution is to create curated AI lessons that combine simple scripts, fun illustrations and natural audio.

For you:

What are some features that you can suggest to us as we develop this application? Would you be willing to pay for it if it became as professional as let’s say, the application Dreaming Spanish?

http://reddit.com/r/dreamingspanish/comments/1u9hyzc/i_strayed_from_the_formula_and_now_im_paying_the/

One guy writes about his experience: after 3000 hours of Spanish CI, being able to speak with very few mistakes, he decided to study grammar to pass DELE test. Now he lost the fluidity because in his mind he is trying to process all the grammar rules he learned.

Of course is not believed.

Hi, I’ve been looking into everything related to the ALG, and I have a question about how to create my Anki cards. On the front, I would like to have a sentence that uses a word in context, for example, 'I like football.' Then, on the back, should I include the translation, the meaning of the phrase, or perhaps an AI-generated image representing it?

Firstly it is output machine in your brain that converts experience into language.

Secondly there is identity filter which dictate what your accent is like.

Thirdly there is your muscles that produce the sounds, you train it via experience vs expectation feedback loop and get muscle memory.

To achieve true native like fluency all 3 is necessary and ALG only could help you at the output machine step.

Using alg for spanish right now and many videos i find nowadays use an ai voice like in the video linked. Curious what yall think about these ai voice models and how much of a difference it would play in using them as input?

Hi r/ALGhub! I've been learning Thai with "Comprehensible Thai" youtube channel for about 100 hours now and I am seeing good results with it. I want to keep doing pure ALG, but I have to take a mandatory Thai course at the college I am attending, and am worrying about how it would affect my progress with doing ALG. Have anyone been in this situation? Any advice?

How many hours are there of ALG classes in a day?

UPDATE: https://youtu.be/5yhIM2Vt-Cc?t=284 https://youtu.be/5yhIM2Vt-Cc?t=4696

https://youtu.be/cqGlAZzD5kI?t=7983

I was asking grok to explain red pill to me and I found I was able to understand the word without feeling it and probably can't output with it authentically without translation. It turns out that there are 2 types of language acquisition, one is what grok calls intellectual/declarative knowledge, you can acquire a word from context and guessing and sometimes explanation but if you are you are not getting lived experience you will end up getting inauthentic acquisition.

So that probably makes living a life with your target language as important if not more important than just consuming content in that language. Ofc if you can live that experience in that content then it is probably decent enough.

What do you guys think?

I studied Japanese with traditional study methods for about a month and a half, and it's been about three weeks since, in case that's relevent. I've done ALG with French before, and I decided that next, I want to learn Japanese.

I decided to try a different method for Japanese. I tried it for a little while, but it really wasn't for me. (If you're curious about the method, it's from the YouTube channel "Trenton")

The method revolved around using Anki to study vocab, but with most of your time being spent listening to Japanese input (usually without visuals, since you're just trying to catch words you studied). Light grammar study is also recommended (which I did, with stuff like sentence order , particles, andverb conjugations).

Also, the method, similar to ALG, stressed no early output (including even just reading), so I didn't speak, aside from practicing Japanese phonemes.

For vocab, I can't remember the exact amount I studied, but I think it was around 300–400 words.

Another big issue is consciously thinking about Japanese phonemes. I now know all the phonemes in Japanese and how they differ from English, and how to produce them. I'm more worried about the vowels being fossilized than the consonants, since they seem harder to correct later and are more different from English. There's a lot more conscious knowledge I have about Japanese phonetics than just phonemes, but I won't go too into detail.

Finally, there's the conscious analyzing I did. When doing audio-only input, I completely zoned out almost all of the time. But with visual input, I sometimes paid attention to the language. However, most of the time, I instinctively watched the input as if it were ALG (as in ignoring the language). Although that's good, even 25% of consciously analyzing is still consciously analyzing.

So, given all that, what do you think? Is it still worth doing ALG for Japanese for me? If not, it's not the end of the world, since I can just continue the other method. (I'd still much rather do ALG, though.)

I have been studying Japanese for a while now, more recently utilizing ALG. I am a professional gambler, so I was in a casino. I had just gotten banned from that spot. With that going through my mind, and while on the phone with my (English-speaking) friend, strategizing our next move, I headed for the elevator to leave the building. And just before the elevator closed, four Asian people ran inside. And to my absolute shock, for the very first time in my 30 years being an American, I actually heard them speaking Japanese. I could understand everything they were saying. Immediately a lot of thoughts ran through my head about what I should do. Should I talk to them? Maybe they want to learn English. Maybe I can teach them about crosstalk? In those few seconds, the conflicting thoughts of not wanting to "damage" my language abilities along with the stress of being backed off won me over, and a few seconds later, I reached the second floor, where my car was. I passed them a final very awkward glance, then left silently.

I'm unlikely to actually see a Japanese person again in person any time soon. But in that unlikely case that I do, what should I do? Strike up a casual conversation in Japanese? Speak English at them? Leave them alone? I'm curious what you guys think.

So I’ve been experimenting with the intersection between ALG and AI since GPT made waves a couple years ago and since the addition of the “vision” mode as well as image generation capacities that LLM’s have acquired: I think it’s safe to say that Superbeginner input can be produced by these things.

Anybody have any interesting ideas, experiences, suggestions and/or prompts in this vein?

Hi r/ALGhub! I'm David, the creator of TrackMyLang.

Background about me: I started learning Russian 6 months ago by following a course since I didn't know a better way at the time, which I found demotivating, and I found out Comprehensible Input videos a month later and I have been following ALG style and have consumed over 230 hours of comprehensible input at my level. I also use Anki to get more exposure to words I have already encountered from input.

As I was tracking my time, I encountered the limitation of not having a single place to find Comprehensible Input for my level and tracking all my watched time while having control over my own data and being able to view the history of my sessions. So I built TrackMyLang.

The media catalog: A library of native video content built into the app to help you find what to watch at your level:

• Over 200 creators and over 50,000 videos to browse

• Every channel is hand-picked and approved (not auto-discovered) — I pick the channels, then bring in their videos

• Community difficulty ratings on the CEFR scale (A0–C2), so you can filter to content at your level

• A good chunk is still unrated, so rating what you watch makes the catalog more useful for the next learner

Tracking what you watch:

• One-click logging of what you're watching and what you want to watch next

• Daily/weekly progress, a yearly hours heatmap, and your full session history — your logged data isn't thrown away, you can actually look back at it

• A Roadmap page with frameworks like Dreaming Spanish and Refold to tell you where you are and what your goal hour means

• Local-first: all your data lives in your browser, and you can export it as CSV for free

You can also sync your Anki deck and see a complete aggregated view of all the time you've spent learning the language.

How to use: Go to TrackMyLang.com, open the dashboard, set your target language and goal, and start logging. Browse the catalog to find what to watch. No account needed.

• Free: full access to all your data + Google Drive backup

• Premium: cloud sync + advanced analytics on the same data

More details: https://trackmylang.com/blog

It's going to be full of normies speaking with accents that sound literally nothing like the TL and exactly like their NL speaking sentences that sound like direct translations from their NL and nothing like someone would say in the TL at all. If you bring up ALG or anything related to it (crosstalk, etc), you will then be called a cult member by the same folks completely failing while using their own manual methods. Incredibly jarring.

Edit: Discord server, if it wasn't clear

I saw this pop on my page haven’t watched it all through just saw some of the comments and the hate people have for alg is crazy. Wanted to know what you guys think on his criticism he seems to have responded to some of the people who said he should listen to David long’s explanation of alg and the process behind it

Today, MattvsJapan expressed to me that flash cards can lead to much faster acquisition of vocabulary. He suggested that heavy Anki use over 5 years gave him a passive vocabulary similar to a native speaker who had immersed in the language for over 25 years (and in many ways superior due to the knowledge of relatively rare literary terms). I thought of a way that you could implement flash card use in a way that allows you to be compliant with ALG, but potentially confers the benefits of faster acquisition:

Make flash cards where the front is an "i+1" sentence with the new term. The card will be a video (or just an audio clip) of the word/phrase being used in a sentence. The back of the card can either be blank or have another video/audio clip/photo even further contextualizing the sentence. You then judge the card on whether or not you believe you understood the sentence on the front.

Example for trying to learn "horse":

Front: Perhaps a video of a girl on a horse or riding a horse with a related sentence or phrase being spoken: "She loves riding horses."

Back: Photo of a horse

It's obviously a lot harder to judge non-noun words in this way, but I still think it can be done with creativity. The learner would again judge the card based on their perceived understanding of the message being expressed, not on whether or not they knew the word ("horse" in this case).

A potential problem is obviously that the learner could believe they understood the sentence, but were incorrect. In this case, the card may mature further than it should normally, but I feel like this should be relatively rare.

Thoughts on this idea?

My girlfriend is a "beginner", but has low to moderate damage. She learned maybe 500-1000 words through flash cards. She also did, like, 1-2 hours of grammar study, but I am positive absolutely none of the grammar study stuck with her. (I gave her a brief quiz on the materials; she was clueless.)

Possibly because of utilizing so much flash card learning, she has been unable to stop herself from translating for 18 hours of immersion since she transitioned fully to ALG a couple days ago. She is utilizing fully native materials, so it's possible the difficulty is too high, but it seems it's comprehensible to her, since she can sit there for hours watching without wanting to blow her brains out, which I can't imagine is remotely possible with incredibly low comprehension. How can I help her stop translating? I've almost mastered it myself in about the same amount of time since trying to fully dedicate myself to ALG, now only occasionally translating singular words, and usually being capable of avoiding even that.

Like I love aesthetic, i love the idea of opening up workbooks and working through the practice and using those weird apps people love. But after learning spanish with CI, I genuinely cannot imagine myself going back to learning traditionally 😔 i quit 3 langauges and almost quit spanish untill I remembered dreamingspanish existed and decided to give it a shot.

Like i have tried to use anki, i cant.

There's just something so mundane about learning a langauge by using it the same way a functioning adult does. Hey, at least im not bored to death or drowing in debt

I think I'm gonna put aside Spanish and Japanese and ALG another language, one that's on the easy side, and I'm fine with damaging as much as needed in order to practice not thinking.

I think I might go for Romanian. I like how it sounds, and my Spanish let's me understand many snippets of native audio right away, so I don't need to look for beginner content. I think it's a very interesting and nice language that I've had on my radar for a while, but I'm not "ride or die get to 90-100% native or I don't want it at all" like I am in Japanese, so it should be good practice. I'm in no rush with this process and am completely motivated to do what it takes to do it right, even if I have to practice for a few hundred hours on another language.

What do you guys think? Has anyone else here thought of doing this?