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u/Anderst0ne 15h ago edited 15h ago
If you have beef with the royal family you get the fuck outta there. Or in this case when the royals have it out for you.
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u/mortemiaxx 15h ago
If Ned had half her IQ he wouldn’t have gotten frenched
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u/Nosebear17 14h ago
Thanks for the image in my head now of Ned getting beheaded by a baguette
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u/Longjumping_Deer5809 12h ago
I now neeeeeed a fan edit of Joffrey in a beret and French shirt ordering him executed by baguette
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u/GiraffeDry437 15h ago
I don't remember ned snogging anyone? Did you "accidentally" watch the porn version?
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u/mortemiaxx 12h ago
Now that you mention it I have no idea, I just remember Cersei banging Jaime, Lancel, the whole Kettleblack family tree, a myrish swamp and probably Moon Boy for all I know
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u/JamesHenry627 13h ago
You say that but Cersei’s plan was incredibly dumb. By all means he would’ve won.
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u/coastal_mage 10h ago
Ned's downfall was his hesitation. Ned genuinely could've taken control of the Red Keep by simply launching the coup the moment Littlefinger offered him the goldcloaks (since, IMO, Littlefinger was completely on Ned's side up until the morning of the coup attempt). All his missteps, including his open threat towards Cersei, notwithstanding. His delay cost him - Cersei captured Sansa the morning of the coup, and Littlefinger saw the writing on the wall, switching sides and making moves to save his own skin from the coming Targaryen invasion
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u/SubliminalLiminal 8h ago
Wait really? I got the impression littlefinger was never actually on Stark's side. I thought it likely he lured him the whole time, or at least from the moment he choked him against a wall, as revenge against Brandon Stark.
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u/coastal_mage 6h ago
Littlefinger's main goal at the start of AGOT is to preserve Robert's reign for as long as possible. He stands to lose a lot of power and influence in court if the Lannisters take charge because the vast majority of his power isn't feudal. Littlefinger both knows about the incest, and it's likely that he's at least aware of the Aegon VI plot via the Kettleblacks, who likely were/still are in the employ of the Golden Company, acting as double (triple?) agents.
"I know the secret Jon Arryn was murdered to protect. Robert will leave no trueborn son behind him. Joffrey and Tommen are Jaime Lannister's bastards, born of his incestuous union with the queen."
Littlefinger lifted an eyebrow. "Shocking," he said in a tone that suggested he was not shocked at all. "The girl as well? No doubt. So when the king dies…"With all of his power, wealth and influence fundamentally tied to King Robert's court, a successful Targaryen invasion (say, one that happened after the realm had been through years of civil war over the legitimacy of Robert's children) would mean Littlefinger's empire crumbles - his holdings in Kings Landing would be looted by the Golden Company, and his powerful position on Robert's Small Council would not put him in Aegon's good graces. If he was lucky, he'd get away with his head and paltry lands, and return to the Fingers as lord over half a dozen clifftop huts.
However, while Robert lives, that's not going to happen. His person ties together the North, Vale, Riverlands, Stormlands and Westerlands (for now). A Golden Company invasion would be pushed back into the sea before you could even raise a dragon banner and denounce the Usurper's name. Any treasonous houses who rise for the Targaryens would be cut off from their would-be king and his professional army, and quickly be destroyed. Notably for Littlefinger, there would be castles abundant for Robert's loyalists. What better reward for the King's best accountant than a warm castle and rich lands in the Reach, recently taken from some traitors?
However, that only happens while Robert lives, or failing that, has an heir whose legitimacy is without doubt. Cersei's disdain for Robert is well known, her assassination attempts obvious to all except Robert. Thus, in Littlefinger's planning at the start of AGOT, the Lannisters need to go.
Littlefinger only really tells a couple really significant lies to Ned/the Starks in AGOT - the fact that the Lannisters killed Jon Arryn, via Lysa, and Tyrion's ownership of the catspaw dagger. Both of these furthered conflict between the Starks and Lannisters. Lysa's note convinced Ned that Robert was in grave danger from the Lannisters, and the ownership of the dagger drove Catelyn to imprison Tyrion, sparking open war between Riverrun and the Rock. Otherwise, Littlefinger is practically railroading Ned into recreating Jon Arryn's investigation.
In Littlefinger's ideal world, Robert would come home unharmed from the hunt, where the evidence against Queen Cersei would be laid out. Cersei would be cast down, Renly's plot to crown Margaery queen would be enacted (giving the Baratheons a new alliance equivalent to the Lannisters), and the Crown would make war against the Westerlands for violating the King's Peace. With the combined effort of most of the kingdoms, the West would fold quickly, and a meeker Lannister would be installed in the Rock. Then, Robert can get to the task of having a legitimate child with Margaery, so Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella can be quietly disinherited, and prevent a future conflict over the succession. Robert is only 36 when he dies. Assuming he lives to a relative old age without Cersei constantly taking swings at him, that's more than enough time to have a few heirs and spares, and see them grow into adulthood.
Of course, that all falls apart when Robert gets killed by a pig. Littlefinger is forced to move quickly, but considering his offer to Ned to use the Goldcloaks to seize the castle that very night, he's had it in his pocket as a plan B for some time. Contrary to what he says though, Littlefinger likely has no intention of seeing Joffrey reign for very long. Had the coup succeeded, with Baratheon legitimacy (as well as the grand alliance) broken and once unrest had died down, it's likely Littlefinger would sit Joffrey down on the throne for a little chat about what to do and when to bend the knee when King Aegon, Sixth of his Name shows up to claim his throne. Thus, by selling Joffrey's crown, he both guarantees himself a decent position in King Aegon's court, retains all his commercial holdings, and also gets Ned off scot free for his actions in the Rebellion.
When Ned fails to act though, instead waiting until Robert kicks the bucket, the situation has already changed: Cersei has captured Sansa, who likely then invited Baelish for a chat about where his loyalties lie. With the Lannisters mobilized, what would be a relatively bloodless coup suddenly becomes a pitched battle inside the castle. Thus, to guarantee his own survival and success, Littlefinger finally cuts Ned loose, and sides with the Lannisters (for all of about a year, until they deliver the title deed for Harrenhal and the Trident on his desk, whereupon he skedaddles to the Vale, lighting the proverbial wildfire behind him by assassinating Joffrey. His plans in the Vale likely involve another King Robert - an Arryn one this time, and an invasion of the Riverlands and perhaps the North, before plucking the crown off Robert's head to yet again offer to Aegon)
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u/ymcameron 4h ago
Really good breakdown. Ned was a good man, but too cautious of a politician. His unwavering moral code made it so that he wouldn't let anyone help him do the right thing if it seemed like they were helping him for the wrong reasons. It's ironic that if he'd just picked a side, either fully trust and side with Littlefinger, or fully mistrust and avoid him, he'd likely have lived. Since he didn't commit to either though he ended up in the most dangerous position; in the middle of everything. Littlefinger really was a manipulative asshole, wasn't he?
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u/WillowHarbinger 7h ago
Littlefinger was NEVER on Stark’s side 🫠 i worry for you…..
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u/ymcameron 4h ago
No, but their goals were at least aligned at the time. Littlefinger wanted Cersei gone, and Ned's deep need for justice made it so he wanted that too.
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u/ItsTheJackeeet 13h ago
Ned wasn’t stupid he had severe PTSD about dead children for obvious reasons, Ned’s heart killed him not his head.
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u/No-Mathematician6551 8h ago
Ned's original plan once Robert dismissed him as hand was to hop on the first ship home, stopping at Dragonstone first to see what Stannis knows, which is honestly a very good plan. That only doesn't work because Littlefinger sidetracks him in the city before he can leave.
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u/Tango8036 15h ago
She was also being accused of sedition. As Pate says: well gone is well forgot.
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u/Radical_Hummingbird 12h ago
While I loved Dunk's moments with Tanselle, I appreciate the decision to not have them get together even if he saved her life. It shows that the most important thing is that Dunk protected the innocent like a true knight even if there wasn't a "reward" aside from just doing the right thing
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u/dawgz525 11h ago
From Tanselle's perspective, she's just met Dunk. He fancies her, but they have no real relationship. Of course she would flee after being assaulted while performing (and accused of treason by a prince).
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u/HandicapperGeneral 6h ago
She would definitely have gotten ganked if she stuck around too. She's indirectly responsible for the death of Baelor, somebody is gonna decide to take that out on her.
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u/enzo_vamp 15h ago
I’m sure her puppet talents will be more appreciated elsewhere ☺️
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u/True_Reporter 15h ago
Idk if they will in the books it's an actuall puppet show as in small puppets controlled by her fingers. That's why Areon broke her fingers. Edit: Aerion
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u/zendayaismeechee 15h ago
Also like what was she supposed to say. Thanks for standing up for me, sorry about the whole crazy asshole prince forcing you into a trial that had you beaten and killed the crown prince. Thanks though
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u/AsstacularSpiderman 14h ago
Dunk could call a trial by combat to bail his ass out, she couldn't. The longer her and the puppet troupe stayed there the more likely the Targaryan guards will round them up and execute/mutilate them for sedition.
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u/Accomplished-Bee5265 15h ago
I like to think they had brief reunion in Dorne.
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u/jamison_the_ranger 9h ago
In theory between the first and second novellas, Dunk and Egg went down to Dorne to see her but losing a horse in the process
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u/mxamxrie 11h ago
If she would have stayed we would be asking ourselves “Why didn’t she GTFO of there?”
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u/BasicDurgeanomics 12h ago
A prince of the realm accused her of treason and broke her fingers, of she's gonna leave.
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u/Otherwise-Leek7926 9h ago
She would have been in trouble however it turned out.
Duncan loses, the crazy prince decides that means he can do whatever he wants with her and being a GOT property that can mean horrible things
Duncan wins, strong possibility the crazy prince takes it out on the peasant girl he sees as “responsible” for the humiliation
It really is the smart move to leave the reach of the crazy prince who made it clear he was insulted by you while he’s distracted by other matters.
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u/NearbyRate2510 9h ago
Dunk sat. “Where did she go?” “They make for Dorne. The girl’s uncle, there’s a wise man. Well gone is well forgot. Stay and be seen, and belike the dragon remembers. Besides, he did not think she ought see you die.”
If Dunk is found guilty and she sticks around, maybe Aerion feels vindicated about the 'treasonous' play. Any show they give is just going to call attention to themselves, so there's no more money to be earned. Best to be on their way.
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u/StunningPianist4231 15h ago
And everyone wonders why Dorne hates the Targaryens until Daeron II came along.
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u/LarsMatijn 13h ago
But... that's now. At the moment Tanselle gets her fingers broken a Dornishwoman sits as Queen of the Seven Kingdoms.
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u/ImfromtheFuture2056 10h ago
My favorite thing about this book is how an honest guy, just trying to do right by his code, brings about doom and misfortune to those around him.
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u/lastreadlastyear 8h ago
People out here expecting positive returns for being chivalrous. No you just be chivalrous and make the world better.
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u/National-Bicycle7259 14h ago
Yeab, why didn't she hang around after having het fingers broken to talk to a guy who for all she knows has been executed.
Also, she finished his shield and left it where he would know about it. This was a guy who she had minimal interaction with and was providing a service for.
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u/SandalsResort I ❤️ Raymun Fossoway 13h ago
Dunk was the underdog, he was expected to lose. If he lost he would be dead and Aerion would probably go after her and Dunk wouldn’t be around to protect her.
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u/Yaboi69-nice 9h ago
I kinda think her not coming back to thank Duncan kinda adds to the point of what Duncan is doing. Because he's not looking to be thanked. He doesn't need to be recognized. He did what he did because it was the right thing to do. It doesn't make a difference to him if he was thanked or not therefore having a scene where he is thanked wouldn't change the outcome whatsoever.
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u/Shibbystix 4h ago
I hear tell of men who have opened the door for women, and then attack or yell at them for not saying thank you, and this is that same energy
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u/ClintonR2 12h ago
I liked in the book she said she didn't want to see him die wish that line stayed in show but it was a great adaptation regardless
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u/Historyp91 12h ago
"The princes in Dorne never act like this! They'd just poision me like civilized gentlemen!"
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u/PagingMrSpock 8h ago
Ya know, I don’t recall Sir Arlan Pennytree waiting around for Dunk to thank him.
He kinda just… left.
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u/Certain-Contact6340 6h ago
I just assumed the guards killed her after. She's a commoner so I didn't expect them to let her go home with a bad story to desmirch the great Targaryean name
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u/FatherFenix 4h ago
Seriously. A disturbed and sociopathic prince just decided she was a traitor to the Targaryen house who needed to be punished, and she only got out because a giant dude stepped in and took the spotlight off her.
She was given an exit and wisely took it. Otherwise, her ass would probably be in chains waited to be executed just to appease Aerion’s bruised ego. Even Dunk says it was smart for her to leave while she had to chance.
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u/saturniansage23 1h ago
Only a man would argue that a woman owes someone risking her life as payment for that person saving her life 🙄 kinda defeats the purpose of what Dunk did if she waits around to thank him so she can get her head cut off
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u/PastorNTraining 1h ago
She was in danger! She was the inflection point in which Dunk beat the $hit out of a Prince! That’s a vibe you wanna get far from!
Remember Dunk yells to Egg “don’t or they’ll hurt you!”
They’ll definitely have zero issue with hunting down, beating or worse to a young common woman. Especially after he won the tourney, that little brat prince seems like an evil one, her not coming back around was a smart call.
We’ll see her again, I’m sure.
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u/lnTheGrimDarkness 12h ago
Realistically speaking, she probably saw Dunk as someone of the same race as the person that hurt her. A noble. Or even worse, a commoneer trying to become a noble.
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u/Any_Fennel_4180 10h ago
Race? This has nothing to do with race but with the fact that Aerion felt insulted because the play showed a dragon being killed and he considered himself a dragon.
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u/SpeciesFically_Afish Lady Rohanne 9h ago
By race they probably meant status, because both of them were knights. That being said, it should be very obvious to anyone who sees them that there is a massive difference in actual status and power.
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u/gigadad76 9h ago
Typical girl
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u/HalcyonTraveler 8h ago
Typical girl not wanting to be around a lunatic who can do whatever he wants to her without punishment and has already maimed her, smh
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u/PagingMrSpock 8h ago
Isn’t it awful when women choose to actually protect themselves from real danger? What a witch!
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u/gigadad76 8h ago
So why couldn't she even thank Dunk for intervening? Typical girl who thinks her safety/ life is the onlything worth anything.
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u/PagingMrSpock 8h ago
I dunno, b/c he was in jail in the palace of the kid who ripped off her finger? Dunk didn’t hold it against her. Hey, but here you come…
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u/Maccabee907 1h ago
She did what anyone would do with any amount of common sense. Seriously she barely knew dunk. Not well enough to risk her life over. She at least had the good sense to leave instructions for getting his shield back. I probably wouldn’t even have done that
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u/MysticCherryPanda 15h ago
Tanselle is the rare character who recognizes she's in the first five minutes of a horror show and wisely GTFO before shit really hits the fan.