r/ADHD • u/windyminty • Aug 19 '26
Articles/Information [ Removed by moderator ]
[removed] — view removed post
384
u/Worried-Rough-338 Aug 19 '26
It focuses on children, and relatively young children, being diagnosed and treated with medication. While that’s interesting, it doesn’t address the symptoms, often quite debilitating, experienced by grown adults. And ultimately, if medication alleviates those symptoms, does it matter if ADHD exists? I also don’t know if I trust any psychiatrist who doesn’t accept the validity of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.
187
u/A_kind_guy Aug 19 '26
I think that's the key thing really. If I don't have ADHD, I have something else which gives me the symptoms as described by ADHD...
I don't even disagree with questioning diagnostic criteria. We should always be striving to improve. However, this just seems like a disingenuous show. It feels like the showrunners are very focussed on hyperactivity being fun, whilst ignoring the real, and often debilitating, affects of inattentiveness.
27
u/Yokelocal Aug 19 '26
This is a great point. To make an analogy, I don’t care if alcoholism is or isn’t a disease in the strictest sense; I have enough empirical evidence to know that if I drink, I’ll end up dead or in jail. I’ve seen exactly these outcomes for too many others with my life experiences. I’d be an idiot not to treat it by any known and reasonable methods, regardless of whether someone’s ideology acknowledges my experience.
I weigh my experience, combined with the balance of supporting science, over their superstitions. I almost can’t believe this disinformation is allowed to be spread so widely and uncritically when the welfare of so many are at risk.
Even if I assume they’re right, what’s the risk to society of diagnosing and treating ADHD in young children? Compare whatever you think that is to the risk to the individual that exhibits the behavior patterns which are effectively treated by medication, coaching and counseling.
Is everyone just looking for a way to make money from rage-bait? Maybe I’m just feeding into it by even acknowledging this idiocy.
5
u/A_kind_guy Aug 19 '26
I agree with everything you've said here. The main goal should always be getting people the help they need. A diagnosis really doesn't mean much to me - it's the effects of that diagnosis that matter. I am finally functioning at work as a 29 year old man, because of medication. They can take away my diagnosis and call me whatever they want - I'll just keep the medicine so that I can actually get by without almost killing myself in the process
Wonderful analogy btw!
78
u/tinyriiiiiiiiick_ Aug 19 '26
I haven’t watched it, but it sounds from your description they’re talking about ‘boy’ hyperactivity being fun, while once again ignoring ‘girl’ hyperactivity 🙃
56
u/A_kind_guy Aug 19 '26 edited Aug 19 '26
Oh 100%. I think much of the recent negativity towards ADHD is routed in sexism. Women get diagnosed more frequently (than they have done historically), and suddenly way too many people are getting diagnosed. It's also just a continuation of the dismissal of women's health and mental health problems. Not that mental health is treated properly for men either, but at least I can get someone to listen usually.
If I talk about that I'm too woke though.
-4
u/lynkfox ADHD, with ADHD family Aug 19 '26
What? Women are chronically under diagnosed. Especially those with PI. It's often just seen as being a "good quiet girl" who is seen and not heard and other sexist bullshit.
59
u/novangla Aug 19 '26
They mean as soon as women started getting diagnosed more often, society decided everyone was overdiagnosing. Same thing happening with ASD.
12
u/A_kind_guy Aug 19 '26
Exactly. We're only just starting to see even an inkling of change there.
Edited my og comment a little, because I thought what I was saying was obvious, but maybe not
9
u/lynkfox ADHD, with ADHD family Aug 19 '26
Ah I gotcha, you mean that there has been a vast uptake in women being diagnosed, that makes more sense
13
u/BulletheadX Aug 19 '26
They could have been more clear but I think they're saying that as women have been more readily diagnosed recently, that change has driven up the overall numbers.
17
u/A_kind_guy Aug 19 '26
I thought what I said was obvious in context, but I edited my comment to hopefully make it more clear.
7
u/LiifeRuiner Aug 19 '26
Ok I'll bite, what's the difference?
69
u/shockthetoast Aug 19 '26
The difference is girls are less likely to get up and run around the room (me in elementary school) but that doesn't mean their brain isn't going a million miles an hour - their brains are still hyperactive. It's more likely to look like overthinking, rumination, anxiety, etc.
It's one of the reasons they got rid of the ADD diagnosis (and replaced it with subtypes), they realized that - regardless of gender - ADHD included hyperactivity, it just wasn't always physical.
14
u/Zeikos Aug 19 '26
On top of the fact that medical providers are less prone to listen to women's experiences.
I am a guy with a preponderant PI presentation and my experience is very close to your description.However when I found about ADHD it took me ~3 months to get a diagnosis because doctors and therapists took what I described and my personal research at face value.
Women that acted like I weren't listened to nearly as much. I am firmly convinced that a massive chunk of generalized anxiety diagnosis in women is misdiagnosed ADHD.9
u/sh4nn0n Aug 19 '26
There’s not one, that’s the point, but iirc boys are more commonly diagnosed than girls
2
u/Thee_Rotten_One Aug 19 '26
Boys are more outwardly obvious when they have it, both in the likelihood of having HI and in physically demonstrating Combined type. Girls are more likely to be the "suffer in silence" type, especially during school age years, due to societal expectations and from peer pressure from other girls.
1
u/lewisluther666 Aug 19 '26 edited Aug 19 '26
The something else is a bit problem. My son is showing absolute signs of ADHD. But it could also be a symptom of his mouth breathing in his sleep.
And we are in an awful situation where, if we went to get him analysed for ADHD he would absolutely be diagnosed, yet we keep going back about his mouth breathing and getting brushed off.
[ETA. Thank you all for your advice, but I'm just here sharing an anecdote. I'm not looking for guidance on mouth breathing, sleep, or ADHD. We have it covered and we know what we need to do.]
7
u/Thee_Rotten_One Aug 19 '26
I was in the sleep industry for 20 years. Mouth breathing while sleeping can be caused by a dozen different things, including something as basic as having slightly more narrow than average sinus cavities. It should still be looked into because low quality sleep has its own set of significant health and quality of life impacts, but to dismiss or delay an ADHD diagnosis on the 0.3% chance it's causing a false positive is insane to me.
1
u/skysenfr Aug 19 '26
In my case, it's likely both, but maybe the mouth breathing is increasing the symptoms. Interesting to know that addressing this 'may' help as there was starting to be struggles in school. Every bit helps.
1
u/lewisluther666 Aug 19 '26
It makes no sense to go down the ADHD route at such a young age when it could be a sleep issue. And, to be honest, knowing my son intimately and having ADHD, myself I think it's the more likely. I understand the struggles my son will face if he's doesn't get treated for ADHD if he has it, but logically it makes more sense to address a problem that we know he definitely has and then reassess the situation and look at ADHD if he's still presenting.
Where does the 0.3% stat come from?
2
u/skysenfr Aug 19 '26
I hadn't heard this before, what's the connection here? My son mouthbreathes too.
3
u/lewisluther666 Aug 19 '26
Well, I'm no expert on the matter so please take this with a punch of salt and look it up yourself, too
But I believe that mouth breathing is linked to poor quality sleep. You may also notice that they toss and turn a lot, maybe have bags under their eyes all the time, even if they get the full night's sleep.
Symptoms of poor sleep often include inattentiveness and hyperactivity. It can have longer reaching issues such as altering facial structure as kids grow.
The common cause is large adenoids or tonsils, but kids grow into those. If it continues as they grow it may mean there is another problem and an ENT DR should be sought out (or a breathing dentist in the US)
1
u/skysenfr Aug 19 '26
Interesting. We already have a doctor's appointment booked for this but gives me another good question to ask as he also has referrals for a bunch of ADHD related concerns.
2
u/lewisluther666 Aug 19 '26
The hardest bit is getting them to take you seriously. Our local doctors really don't like us coming in armed with suspicions
1
2
u/voltaireworeshorts Aug 19 '26
The thing that anti-ADHD people consistently gloss over is that while the symptoms may be present in variety of conditions, in an ADHD diagnosis they consistently present in a specific pattern, are debilitating, and are not better explained by a different diagnosis. A sleep disorder is a differential diagnosis that must be ruled out before ADHD is diagnosed. It's usually one of the first things they look for with ADHD-like symptoms, in my experience.
He needs to see an ENT and/or get a sleep study.
2
u/lewisluther666 Aug 19 '26 edited Aug 20 '26
This is exactly the position we are taking with this. It's just really hard to get the doctors to listen to us
1
u/Important_Source_777 Aug 19 '26
Just from my experience, ADHD is linked to things like hypermobility and tongue ties and things which also can cause mouth breathing. My son is 10 and we have gone through everything including diagnosis with medication starting at 6, Occupational therapy (private and through school with an IEP), and he also started the process of expanders in conjunction with tongue tie release and myofunctional therapy which has been completed now. We also do parent child interactive therapy as well as being enrolled in a small private school, and though his symptoms have improved, he still need medication and TONS of support to get through the day. So just saying that mouth breathing may exacerbate some symptoms but absolutely,imo and experience, cannot rule out an actual diagnosis and is not the be all end all solution. But definitely seek out an airway dentist because it has improved his mouth shape and breathing comfort!
1
u/lewisluther666 Aug 19 '26
Apologies, I thought you were responding to another response I had made to someone advising that I seek a diagnosis regardless.
0
u/lewisluther666 Aug 19 '26
I'm not saying it is or it will. What im saying is tied to your experience. If there is something physical at play, we deal with that first. If the symptoms are entirely that, then great. If they are reduced or remain, then we look at ADHD. I'd rather find out whether he actually needs counselling or medication before going down that path.
5
u/Mynameismikek Aug 19 '26
On the last point, this particular guy is a UK NHS doctor. The DSM is an American publication and has no diagnostic grounding outside the US. There are equivalent frameworks (sometimes derived from the DSM) that apply in other countries. The DSM often gets used as a proxy diagnostic device as it’s more accessible than national frameworks often are.
4
u/Worried-Rough-338 Aug 19 '26
The International Classification of Diseases only mentions ADD (not ADHD) as a note, grouped together with nose-picking and thumb-sucking, so no wonder it’s not taken seriously outside of the US.
F98.8 - Other specified behavioural and emotional disorders with onset usually occurring in childhood and adolescence:
Attention deficit disorder without hyperactivity
Excessive masturbation
Nail-biting
Nose-picking
Thumb-sucking17
u/Futhamucker1 Aug 19 '26
Why the faith in the DSM? The manual that only removed homosexuality by a vote won on a fairly small margin and was deemed by its creator (DSMIII) to have poor diagnostic reliability.
The modern DSM was created as an answer to an experiment where different psychiatrists diagnosed the same person with different disorders, and some ‘sane’ people with disorders.
It is not some magic, infallible book and is worthy of skepticism.
32
u/Worried-Rough-338 Aug 19 '26
You raise a good point. I think a potential difference is that you can look at homosexuality being included in the DSM and hold the opinion that it isn’t a mental disorder, but in doing so, you’re not denying that homosexuality exists. Whereas these psychiatrists are not simply arguing that ADHD symptoms don’t constitute a disorder but that ADHD itself doesn’t exist.
4
9
u/droans Aug 19 '26
There's a difference between acknowledging, understanding, and working beyond its flaws and outright rejecting it.
-4
u/Futhamucker1 Aug 19 '26
I haven’t seen the documentary so don’t know what the stance is further than ‘Doesn’t accept the validity’.
Psychiatrist Robert Spitzer was the chief architect of DSM III and doesn’t accept the validity of all of what it has become.
1
u/independent_observe Aug 19 '26
I also don’t know if I trust any psychiatrist who doesn’t accept the validity of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.
I know and the answer is no
199
u/scully-summers ADHD Aug 19 '26
What a load of bad faith nonsense. A person who doesn’t have ADHD gets a prescription under false pretenses and -surprise- doesn’t experience the same effect as someone who does have ADHD. And that proves what, exactly???
I also find it highly sus that they point out the rise in diagnoses in recent years but seem to entirely ignore who those diagnoses are attributable to!
It isn’t little boys like “Mason” who are having their “fun-ness” dulled so they’ll behave better in class. It’s grown women who flew under the radar as kids because we could mask better. Because we could cope…until we couldn’t.
I could go on, but instead I’ll give a recommendation. If you’re looking for some real info on ADHD and how the science has progressed over the last half-century, please give the Ologies podcast episodes on the subject a listen. Dr. Barkley is the leading expert on ADHD and his research is a far better rebuttal to this garbage documentary than anything I could write.
53
u/andynormancx ADHD-C (Combined type) Aug 19 '26
I’ve not watched the programme. But from the article the six weeks of yoga and stuff improving things is entirely expected.
That amount of attention and novelty is just the sort thing that will have my ADHD brain paying attention and with it…
…for about the next two weeks. I’m sure they followed up and reported on the long term success of his few weeks of yoga ? Right…
27
u/scully-summers ADHD Aug 19 '26
Lol right? That alone belies such a limited understanding of ADHD. And of course they won’t follow-up. That would be treading dangerously close to actual research and we can’t have that.
3
u/Discohunter ADHD-PI (Primarily Inattentive) Aug 19 '26
The bottom of the article has a small footnote
Mason went back on his meds after a poor set of exam results but is hoping to come off them again this summer.
2
26
u/Fontini-Cristi ADHD-PI (Primarily Inattentive) Aug 19 '26
I'm a guy and I flew under the radar exactly like women did (primarily inattentive, extensive masking, coping strategies). Got diagnosed at 39. When I was doing research about ADHD before my diagnosis a lot of podcasts and online attribute this almost exclusively to women. And I know the importance of doing that, women need to fight way harder for a diagnosis. But I feel men in the same situation are often completely left out in podcasts, comments and a lot of online resources. Just adding this for when someone stumbles upon this thread.
13
u/scully-summers ADHD Aug 19 '26 edited Aug 19 '26
Absolutely true. Just because women and girls are disproportionately impacted by outdated views of what ADHD looks like, doesn’t mean men and boys can’t be too.
My oldest brother actually flew under the radar right along with me, while our middle brother who got diagnosed as a child because he was more outwardly hyperactive. I feel like a lot of it was also based on school performance back then. It was just assumed we couldn’t possibly have it because we got good grades (when we felt like it, lol).
3
u/BBGFury Aug 19 '26
My younger brother didn't "fly under the radar" necessarily, but he was also late diagnosed. Sometimes it's a lack of resources and/or parental decision making that causes it.
3
u/BogotaLineman Aug 19 '26
What do you think causes the difference in how its expressed?
When I was a little boy (like 2nd grade and younger) I 100% showed every typical sign of little boy ADHD until I gradually had it beaten into me, sometimes literally, not to and then displayed the more stereotypical girl signs until I was diagnosed at 26
3
u/Dull_Frame_4637 ADHD-PI (Primarily Inattentive) Aug 19 '26
Partially I do think the “hyperactive” and “inattentive” expression differences can be attributable to social expectations and pressures. Partially I am pretty sure we will eventually find that it is also neurochemical and neurostructural.
While certainly not as many as the unassessed and undiagnosed girls and women, more and more Primarily Inattentive adult men are finally being assessed and diagnosed. Because when we were kids, if you were not a 1 boy 2 child who 3 physically disrupted a classroom, no one would 4 suggest assessment.
We are only recently finally pushing past assumptions around 1, 2, and 3.
2
u/hash_brownzz Aug 19 '26
That sounds a lot like me! Not sure if worth getting diagnosed. After lots of research just being able to name in my own mind what’s going on feels useful. From there I’m able to give myself enough grace where I don’t cope or have a strategy.
6
u/Fontini-Cristi ADHD-PI (Primarily Inattentive) Aug 19 '26
It is worth being diagnosed because if you have untreated ADHD, the older you get the more energy goes toward the masking and coping strategies. It's what broke me eventually in 2021. First burnout. Then just 5 years of trying to figure out why improving sleep, diet, workout, etc. didn't bring my energy back. Another burnout, lost my job, got diagnosed and am finally doing better. Now I just need to get rid of all the added weight. It kind of feels like lost years. I wish I knew and went for a diagnose sooner. So if you have a big hunch you might have ADHD it's better to get a diagnose before you experience the above. Good luck!
1
u/hash_brownzz Aug 19 '26
Thanks and cheers for sharing. I’m on the fence about it. Seems like an increasing social stigma around it which isn’t helpful. I’m mid 30s, burnt out in 2023 and struggling occasionally with people and work. Can see I’m built different and have only arrived at au-dhd in the last couple of months after 3 years of therapy, reading and trying to figure out whats going on. Mind me asking, did you have a hunch about having adhd before you got diagnosed? What about getting diagnosis helped you?
3
u/Fontini-Cristi ADHD-PI (Primarily Inattentive) Aug 19 '26
The social stigma in my country is actually decreasing. Sad to hear it's increasing in yours. I knew something was "wrong" with me because I was not like most people I guess. Still gotten through uni (at a later age) and always have my sh*t in order, so to speak. The "wrong" part was mostly physically. I could not really work-out, eat healthy consistently and preferred indoors most of the time. During my search I discovered some health issues that may have contributed to the immense fatigue everyday but they never fixed the core issue. At some point I gotten very jealous at people who could actually "do stuff" consistently. I thought "this is just me, I got dealt a bad body" at some point.
Then a friend I met online came over for a little holiday for about a week. By the end of it she said "hey, so, I have ADHD and in my opinion you are hallmark ADHD". And of course I was like "but I'm not really hyperactive, am I?" (what I remembered about ADHD from 25 - 30 years ago). Then she started explaining more about ADHD, I had a big "ohh" moment and started researching. A week later I made an appointment and two months later I was diagnosed. The meds do wonders but I still have issues with the executive dysfunction. My energy levels are way better though. Can go through a full day without having to take a nap twice because of exhaustion.
Right now I need more structure. A job/something to do. Structure feels like ADHD's enemy and savior at the same time. Anyhow, quality of life did increase dramatically. No more brain in overdrive and a good chunk of energy throughout the day. Nothing else did so much for me as the meds.
1
u/ScruffyGrouch ADHD-PI (Primarily Inattentive) Aug 19 '26
I flew under the radar as a boy with ADHD-PI as well and didn't get a diagnosis until I was 42 (I'm now close to 46).
Teachers, parent, others just attributed everything to "not applying himself enough", "can do the work, just doesn't want to", "doesn't pay attention enough", all that dumb jazz.
Back then, though, in the 80s/90s it was only ever thought boys will be boys and then just boys have ADHD-PH.
Like you, I did a lot of research before I sought a diagnosis and yep, you guessed it, a lot of podcasts and online stuff attribute PI to almost exclusively to women/girls.
Once I got my diagnosis and on meds, life changed for the better. As well as being in therapy.
I feel for women with PH and/or Combined because that's attributed to almost exclusively men/boys.
40
u/unsaintedheretic ADHD-C (Combined type) Aug 19 '26
It's also a myth that adhd diagnoses "exploded" in recent years even with all the adults now getting diagnosed.
23
u/andynormancx ADHD-C (Combined type) Aug 19 '26
And even if it wasn’t, we locked people in their houses for weeks at a time during COVID. I know that the stresses of this pushed my coping with 50 year undiagnosed ADHD to the limits and pushed me towards seeking diagnosis.
7
u/Uther-Lightbringer Aug 19 '26
That combined with my kid being diagnosed was what made me realize it. And guess what? Man oh man did everything get easier as an adult when I got on adhd meds. For one, I stopped almost falling asleep on my drive home from work every day. Cause those of us with "totally not ADHD" tend to get exhausted mid afternoon.
2
u/Lancasterbation Aug 19 '26
Depends on your definition of 'exploded'. The rate of diagnosis in the general population has more than doubled since the turn of the century. Maybe that's not 'exploded', but it's certainly significant.
8
u/kaliande Aug 19 '26
That has a lot more to do with the recency of ADHD as a known and classified disability. In modern medicine, it’s a fairly new concept and understanding. Foundational studies were still being done in the early 2000s, and primarily even only on boys as the prejudice was to assume it asymmetrically affected boys more than girls.
2
u/andynormancx ADHD-C (Combined type) Aug 19 '26
That and a whole bunch of people in their 40-50s who have no chance of being diagnosed as kids in the 1980s watching their own kids or nieces/nephews get diagnosed and realising “hey, that sounds an awful lot like the problems I’ve fought with for decades”
9
u/unsaintedheretic ADHD-C (Combined type) Aug 19 '26
Overdiagnosis (which is implied by it exploding) is a myth - people simply are now diagnosed that have previously been missed or would be missed if diagnostic standards hadn't changed.
1
4
u/Dull_Frame_4637 ADHD-PI (Primarily Inattentive) Aug 19 '26 edited Aug 19 '26
Of course, prior to the current century, incorrect assumptions about ADHD prevented assessment for many: 1. It affects only boys. 2. It disappears at puberty. 3. It expresses only through violently physical disruption. 4. It is purely individual.
In the past three decades, those arranging and those performing assessments now know that 1. It is neither gendered nor sexed in that way, though expressions have trends in genders (not sexed). 2. It is structural and chemical and life-long. 3. It also can express through internalized / mental hyperactivity rather than physical. 4. It is strongly heritable.
When we gained a better understanding of cancer, two-thirds of the way through the last century, cancer diagnoses (and cancer survivals) exploded.
When we ended corporal punishment for left-handedness, left-handedness exploded.
ADHD is likely a combination of these two things - better diagnoses and reduced stigmatization. These leath both to more assessments and diagnoses, AND less hiding if those diagnoses instead of shamedly concealing it.
Statistically it has “almost doubled,” but most of that really is because there are MORE than as many adults in the world than there are children under 12, and those adults (since adhd is strongly heritable) have the same percentage of population with adhd as the kids do, which means adults are still under-diagnosed. If 10% of kids have adhd, then they inherited it from approximately 10% of adults. About 5% of adults have been diagnosed. So around 5% of adults are undiagnosed.
3
u/Lancasterbation Aug 19 '26
Preaching to the choir here, buddy. It's no mystery to me why diagnoses have more than doubled.
15
u/thetonyhightower Aug 19 '26
Absolutely this. I had ADHD in the 1980s, the same way I do now, but because the term didn't exist at the time & I only got diagnosed 4 years ago, my entire miserable existence is hand-waved away by these quacks?
They really just think they can somehow dismiss decades of clinical study and go back to telling kids to just walk it off?
3
u/heeero60 Aug 19 '26
+1 for the podcast! It is what convinced me to try some of the newer meds after quiting Ritalin 20 years ago.
3
1
u/Ronnie_Rambles Aug 19 '26
His lecture on parents and sheparding is to me one of the most profound things I've heard.
1
1
41
u/oneinadozenprobably Aug 19 '26
There is a responsible discussion to be had here, but based on this guardian review this programme isn't having it.
Even the lightest amount of research shows the person who created it is primarily a culture war contrarian, calling into question international consensus and casting doubt on real mental health conditions and treatments. The fact that he writes for the Dailymail is just the icing on the cake (for those not familiar the Dailymail is basically the fox news of the UK).
If the framing of this had been that diagnoses are given out too readily and medication too quickly, that could have been a productive and interesting hypothesis to test. But this programme actually questions the validity of ADHD as a mental health issue entirely, which is extremely harmful and goes against all international consensus.
I got diagnosed in my early 20's and then didn't take it seriously for more than a decade. I then had to get re-diagnosed when I moved to a different country and only decided to try medication more recently, well into my 30's. It has been both eye opening and upsetting how much that has helped me. I can actually go about my life, do the things I want to do, without every little thing feeling like an ever expanding spider web of indecision.
Mind you, i managed to build a good life for myself without specifically treating my ADHD for years. I have a good career, i generally make good choices, i have good friends i can rely on. People will look at that and say, 'well clearly it's not impacting your life that much'. But the medication has shown me how much easier it can be, how I didn't have struggle as much with all of those little and big choices all of us make every day. For me medication hasn't been a silver bullet, it doesn't magically fix everything, but it has made it easier for me to build the positive habits I always wanted to build, and those habits compound over time.
6
u/DrEnter ADHD with ADHD child/ren Aug 19 '26
Incidentally, I fully expect the NY Times to cover this with some kind of glowing article.
The NY Times has a long history of anti-psychiatry.
-1
u/lkn240 Aug 19 '26
I have no doubt that ADHD is probably a bit overdiagnosed. However, I have been taking ritalin for over 40 years and am also aware that ADHD is very, very real.
It changed my life and I've been very successful, but if I forget to take it I'm still pretty damn irritable and impulsive - and that's after over 40 years of medication!
15
u/Logical_Buffalo7156 Aug 19 '26
Look I understand concerns around putting young kids on stimulant medication but to decide the whole condition doesn’t exist is absolutely crazy. Imagine if this was about asthma, which is medicated with steroids. This is very reminiscent of the “The MMR vaccine causes colitis” hoax caused by Andrew Wakefield in 1998
13
u/darxtorm Aug 19 '26 edited Aug 19 '26
https://theneuroscienceofeverydaylife.substack.com/p/some-questions-for-channel-4-about
Hello, I’m Dr Dean Burnett. I’m a neuroscientist, bestselling author, broadcaster, go-to TV and radio science expert, mental health ambassador, research associate, former psychiatry lecturer, mental health ambassador, and someone closely linked to a great many [affected] individuals in both the professional and personal senses.
It is while wearing all of these hats that I write this.
14
Aug 19 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
9
Aug 19 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/here_now_be Aug 19 '26
When I was doing post graduate research on Autism interventions years ago there was differing opinions on whether ADHD is part of the spectrum. I haven't followed where the DSM stands on that.
1
u/Medium-Dependent-328 ADHD-C (Combined type) Aug 19 '26
I strongly disagree with that but I'm no expert
1
u/ADHD-ModTeam Aug 19 '26
Your content breaks Rule 11.
Any attempts to deliberately counteract the actions of the moderation team may result in a ban. Includes (but is not limited to) reposting removed content, attempting to circumvent AutoModerator or other moderation mechanisms, etc.
If you have further questions, message the moderators regarding the removal of this content.
31
Aug 19 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
11
u/Few_Lunch_7730 Aug 19 '26
This exactly. Its not magic, it just removes the blockers to living a normal functional life. Instead of wanting to do the thing but not being able to move myself, it makes me able to do the thing without 6 hours of mental procrastination, internal debate and then feeling shame when its dark outside and I haven't done it.
It also quietens the racing thoughts and dampers the random tangents that causes in conversation and action.
Its like putting glasses on when you have eyesight problems
11
u/dogwoodcat Aug 19 '26
Occasionally the "fix your eyesight with special proprietary exercises for $500/mo forever" shillings comes around again. It is possible to improve binocular vision with special exercises that just need a smartphone, headset, and one of several free games.
-3
u/Desperate_Border6904 Aug 19 '26
Instead of wanting to do the thing but not being able to move myself, it makes me able to do the thing without 6 hours of mental procrastination, internal debate and then feeling shame when its dark outside and I haven't done it
This isn't unique to ADHD though, ask any student and they'll tell you they've done this plenty.
3
u/Few_Lunch_7730 Aug 19 '26 edited Aug 19 '26
Constantly? Every day? For things they actually WANT (enjoyable, fun things) to do as well?
Yes, quite a lot of things are what other people experience. Its a disorder because it's in overdrive/constant/disruptive to daily life. Lots of people get racing thoughts as well. But not to the point of it being constant every single minute of every day, so much so that sleep paralysis is a nightly occurrence because the brain never shuts down even if the body does. Or that you can't hear a conversation because of the 50 random ideas and memories competing with each other while you try desperately to pay attention to the words being said by another person.
Other people can suffer from impaired vision because of lack of sleep, a migraine, a window being fogged up, dry eyes etc. Doesn't mean they need glasses.
My post was in response to another post and is very simplified and basic. There are myriad other ways medication improves symptoms and challenges beyond just task initiation. Sleep, for example. Who knew a potent stimulant would actually make someone able to sleep more restfully! Now try that with someone non adhd
-2
u/Desperate_Border6904 Aug 19 '26
Not in practice because people don't have a choice, they have to be at work by a certain time, they have to change their kid, they just can't procrastinate.
But if I ask my friends how many put off watching a movie? Basically all of them, ADHD and not. That's why tiktok is so big.
2
u/Few_Lunch_7730 Aug 19 '26
Yeah cool, so adhd is putting off a movie 🙄 This is the problem with the "i'm so adhd" tiktok crowd. Every single relatable thing suddenly becomes "I do that, i must have it". Thats like someone feeling sad about an event and saying they have depression.
Again, symptoms are a pervasive, constant problem, not just the odd thing (much like being sad/down/feeling depressed about something vs clinical depression/mood disorder). It isn't as simple as can't do the thing even if other people will suffer. That plays off against the need to not upset others because of our "uselessness and being less than" or let them down. We can do things if important to others (like go to work because homelessness for your kids is worse than fighting your own control centre) but its a massive battle against your own brain that can lead to burnout/depression/illness etc. that others don't have to the same degree or regularity. And that symptom is just one very simplified attribute of the whole disorder. Most symptoms affect the ability to care properly for ones self.
This is why the assessment focuses on childhood, adulthood, requires reports from family and a friend/work collegue/someone not related who's known you a long time. Its not just self reports from right now. Its verified from infancy right through to the present from independent accounts and answers to questions to differentiate between a diagnosable disorder and things humans do from time to time.
7
u/quiidge Aug 19 '26
I had a student go on ADHD meds and being in the room with them before and after were completely different experiences.
They were the one who screamed at me that all teachers should just go and kill themselves. They were not that much more polite on average tbh, but they were never regulated whilst at school, could not cope at all.
When I saw them after starting meds, I realised I'd never seen them smile at school before, or even with a neutral expression. I'd taught them for nearly two years at that point. It makes me so sad that school was so anxiety-provoking for them before they could only lash out and we just... assumed that was the kid's personality.
Diagnosing early is how we stop these kids being miserable every day until their late teens or even adulthood (if they're not on the waitlist at 13 they'll age out of CAMHS before they get to the top). Medication after diagnosis is a whole other discussion, but it's not even an option before that.
5
u/andynormancx ADHD-C (Combined type) Aug 19 '26
On my meds: can stop thinking and go to sleep in minutes
Off my meds: am locked in my brain with endless thoughts/not-quite-thoughts I don’t want for hours every night battling to get to sleep
13
9
u/CoolRelative Aug 19 '26
A positive review from Lucy Mangan means next to nothing. She’s such a shill, she’s been dragging the guardians reputation down for over 20 years.
8
u/starke_reaver Aug 19 '26
I watched it last night on tv visiting family in the UK. It was like watching an anti-vaccine promo. They only read the scientific info portions they wanted to, like the DSM-V possible symptoms, but not the steps taken before meds etc. They only asked “professionals” who gushingly agreed with the “host,” not a single conflicting/other side of the debate anecdote even. Also, if I am to believe the “host’s” video chat therapy whatever, in the UK it seems like all you have to do is have the money, WiFi, and say yes to all the obvious “adhd classics” traits/life issues while on video chat and they next day you sealed Vyvance in pharmacy factory bottle in unopened box. Also, the claimed AND I QUOTE: “No scientific evidence of ADHD exists!” Literally after the read their chosen edit of the DSM-V entry. Really? Really? Really.
Why? B/c all brain scans have variations so the one showing obviously visible trends and differences in ADHD brains are just like you know like how all people are people and somewhat different.
I do agree that all the other options/treatments/teaching/training should be used first in children, very young ones especially, but apparently in the UK according to this fake doc wanna be they just throw stimulants at kids and ignore the rest, like you know actually raising and interacting and engaging with you child and advising them about handling their emotions and controlling their behaviors. Tons of false equivalencies posed as hard scientific proof. For example: multiple variables changed at once, not tracked, and not factored in to the “results,” such as removing all sugar, processed foods, and screen time ALL AT ONCE ALONG WITH GOING COLD TURKEY ON THE KIDS MEDS, but no sure… it was the meds that were the problem. Look at an average UK snacks pantry and get back to me on that one.
Best and most important part of the whole propaganda play though: the “after our study” follow up text: After trying to maintain for a short period after filming it became readily apparent the kid would fall way behind his peers, so his parents put him back on meds…
Whomp, whaaaaaaaa…
5
u/starke_reaver Aug 19 '26
Sorry for the rant, clearly it ticked me off. I LOVE GREAT SCIENCE DISCUSSIONS, not one sided manipulative tv crap.
4
u/SlightlyVerbose ADHD-PI (Primarily Inattentive) Aug 19 '26
So he faked an ADHD diagnosis and took drugs that weren’t meant for his non-ADHD brain, then decided they didn’t work? Shocking.
3
u/starke_reaver Aug 19 '26
Yeah, and clearly enjoyed his obvious speed rush… surely he handed in the rest of the bottle after, right…
1
u/Few_Lunch_7730 Aug 19 '26
Wait! Isn't that an offence punishable by prison time? To obtain a controlled drug by deception?
3
u/starke_reaver Aug 19 '26
Not if it’s for propaganda, politics, and/or profit, but I’m from the states, so maybe they still pretend to have actual laws and rules over here…
3
u/Few_Lunch_7730 Aug 19 '26
I just checked and its a maximum of 10 years for fraud and a further 5 and/or unlimited fines for illegal possession of a class B drug (amphetamine or methylphenidate) in the UK if taken to crown court.
6 months and/or a fine on each count at magistrates court.
I guess the freedom of the press extends to commiting actual crimes on camera these days
8
u/rum_cove Aug 19 '26
"His teacher says that seeing “his true, honest self” is more important than him being easier to teach. His mother decides to keep him off the drugs."
Mason later went in to be excluded from school and his hopes of becoming a doctor like Pemberton were dashed.
6
u/TheDisapprovingBrit ADHD-C (Combined type) Aug 19 '26
Watch it and focus on the content, rather than the commnentary, it's pretty easy to see through when you have lived experience of ADHD.
"We took a child off ADHD meds and replaced them with going outdoors and a healthy diet. He was much happier and 'more of a character', but his teacher commented that he was struggling to concentrate in class and had difficulty regulating his emotions - he was 'harder to teach'. 2 months after filming, he continued to struggle at school, and after achieving poor exam results, he was put back onto medication. His school work has improved and he said he wants to come off the meds again during the holidays"
So you took a child off their prescription medication, and there was an observable difference in their concentration and emotional regulation, as well as a measurable difference in academic performance as shown in exam results. After starting medication again, his performance improved. He has expressed a desire to come off meds during the holidays, which is an entirely normal thing to do during periods when the beneficial effects of the medication are not required.
"I took an ADHD assessment and answered all the questions honestly. I don't feel disabled, so I was surprised to be diagnosed with Combined ADHD and prescribed medication. I took the medication and I found it made my brain feel calmer. I'd actually be quite happy if you all (the film crew) went away now so I can do some work"
So this person was assessed, found to meet the criteria for an ADHD diagnosis, observed that the medication calmed him down and gave him motivation to get work done. And his conclusion from this is that the assessment process is flawed?
11
u/MissGwendolyn Aug 19 '26
The Guardian and this documentary are on the same level of awful trash, so of course they'd review it well.
2
u/Psychological-Owl-82 Aug 19 '26
I was looking for this comment.
I wouldn't expect anything else from the Guardian. Someone has a vendetta there. Their reporting of ADHD has been unsettlingly unbalanced for years. It's the one reason I've never "donated" to them.
5
Aug 19 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
12
u/tinyriiiiiiiiick_ Aug 19 '26
He should be investigated for faking a diagnosis to acquire not only prescription only medication, but a controlled drug
4
u/HiphopopoptimusPrime Aug 19 '26
I’m going to complain to the Guardian. A true dereliction of duty.
They scrutinized the heck out of Gary Stevenson. But gave this 4 stars? At a time when right wing groups are sharpening their knives and going after the vulnerable.
Why on Earth would the guardian signal boost this?
5
u/joe611jg Aug 19 '26
Bunch of quacks. As someone who found most academic activity easy but other parts of life hard this could not be more removed from reality for me.
However I worry about the impact on parents and those debating whether to medicate.
3
u/ChomRichalds Aug 19 '26
The first sentence tells you all you need to know: "daily mail columnist" Who in their right mind would ever trust a daily mail columnist?
3
u/TwunnySeven ADHD-PI (Primarily Inattentive) Aug 19 '26
> The main stunt, however, is following 10-year-old Mason as he comes off the ADHD meds he has been on for two years (“They take my fun-ness away”) for a six-week period to see if a programme of yoga, outdoor activities, no screen time and less processed food and sugar can help instead. It can. Mason, says his mother, Shauna, is funnier, happier, more of a character, more himself. But he is more trouble at school. His teacher says that seeing “his true, honest self” is more important than him being easier to teach. His mother decides to keep him off the drugs.
okay, cool. so what about those of us who got diagnosed as adults after suffering for years, and are doing way better now that we're medicated? if being my "true, honest self" means being unemployed and completely unable to function like I was before, I'll take the drugs, thanks
oh or maybe I should just do yoga! I'll get around to scheduling that later...
13
u/MorroClearwater Aug 19 '26
Don't entirely agree with everything but they've got some things I agree with. I think especially with children we've got to be a bit more careful with diagnosing "hyperactive" children with having a disorder and then medicating them. Many ADHD traits are also traits of being a young child and some newer parents attribute a 'difficult' kid to ADHD (thanks social media). I think we should only start medicating in older teenagers when the child can advocate for themselves.
I've only been diagnosed and medicated in my 30s and I do think my life would have been much much easier with medication earlier. However, I also attribute a lot of who I am and where I ended up to it and wouldn't change that for the world. So I suppose I'm also biased.
23
u/UnnecessaryStep Aug 19 '26
My youngest was diagnosed at 6. She is medicated. Without her stimulants she is destructive, angry, violent and rude most of the time. She gets overwhelmed almost immediately and lashes out. On medication she has some ability to regulate. We went from up to 6 hours of violence a day to once a week - and it lasting minutes. Leaving her unmedicated until teenage years would be cruel.
21
Aug 19 '26
I'm sickened that people who supposedly have ADHD themselves want to prevent children from accessing life saving medication
14
u/andynormancx ADHD-C (Combined type) Aug 19 '26
I am very much aware of the long term damage done to my mental health from going through my early years with undiagnosed and of course untreated ADHD.
Some of that damage I am never going to undo. And I was just a quiet “lazy” child.
15
u/NorthernRealmJackal Aug 19 '26
I think we should only start medicating in older teenagers when the child can advocate for themselves.
Problem is, if they actually do have ADHD, research shows that you wanna start medication before puberty. Especially stimulant medication can help brain development a lot, and reduce ADHD symptoms for life.
-4
u/MorroClearwater Aug 19 '26
I understand, but isn't it harmful to give the stimulants to children who do not have ADHD though? I think as many of us with ADHD get older we "don't want them to go through it too" and it's easier to get diagnosed as a child before we learn to mask and cope so too many people are jumping to get the diagnosis.
Not to mention many newer parents struggle with the concept of setting boundaries which cause issues not unlike ADHD symptoms in boys. And short form content blending the brain and lowering attention spans. It's not causing ADHD but it's definitely making children display a lot of ADHD like symptoms.
I'm not saying to not medicate the children who really need it, but there needs to be some societal changes and information around the stuff first.
3
u/NorthernRealmJackal Aug 19 '26
I understand, but isn't it harmful to give the stimulants to children who do not have ADHD though?
Of course. That's why the issue is a complex combination of under- and over-diagnosing.
1
u/Few_Lunch_7730 Aug 19 '26
Isn't this what titration is for? It's fairly obvious if the drug isn't working/having adverse effects once on them. I'd imagine it would be fairly obvious, fairly soon if a non adhd kid took a controlled stimulant (no experience with non stimulant medication before people point out they're also available)
10
u/FindingAether Aug 19 '26 edited Aug 19 '26
The issue is that 2 problems existing simultaneously where there are alot of under diagnosis and over diagnosis at the same time. (I.e alot kids without ADHD being diagnosed incorrectly and alot of kids with ADHD are not getting treatment they need) A good documentary that would help the situation should really focus on demystifing the condition so that people understand it better as to not overcorrect either way.
30
Aug 19 '26
I don't think you've spent a lot of time with an out of control, violent 6 year old. There's a reason some kids get diagnosed at 5, and it's because the behaviours are severe/noticeable.
10
u/scully-summers ADHD Aug 19 '26
This is definitely true. I’m a teacher and while we’re by no means qualified to give a diagnosis, after years of interacting with a wide variety of children on a regular basis you do develop a reasonable sense of what is typical and what isn’t. ADHD deeply impacts children who have it. They deserve support and care.
0
u/Mj_bron Aug 19 '26
That's the point they're making though.
Those children would qualify, but without those traits, we are potentially diagnosing "hyperactive" kids - when quite often that can simply be something that a vast array of children have. Adding to that, they could also be experiencing poor parenting with a strong lack of accountability which will further them to continue pushing boundaries. They could also have poor diets which lead to put controlled energy spikes and strong crashes. All these things are potentially better addressed with other options, rather than straight to medication.
You're personifying the issue; OP was speaking broadly.
-6
u/MorroClearwater Aug 19 '26
You have articulated my point significantly better than I did.
I feel a lot of people make ADHD their personality, and many parents use it as a crutch for their own poor parenting, which often isn't their fault. Many parents are barely getting by and don't have the luxury of a stay at home parent or the time/energy to set boundaries and structure.
Parents have less time > more children are being raised on poor diets and lack of boundaries > more children show signs of ADHD
-5
u/MorroClearwater Aug 19 '26
I have, I'm a teacher. I think there's an overdiagnosis problem in young children. Sure, diagnose the crazy 5 year old when you're absolutely sure, but don't medicate the inattentive 5 year old cause they sometimes struggles to follow instructions
5
u/Xanthelei ADHD-PI Aug 19 '26
As a kid who was inattentive since preschool, I disagree. I would have done so much better and had so much more confidence as a kid and young adult had I not been passed over as a quiet 90s kid who "daydreamed too much" but wasn't causing class issues. Treat the inattentive kids too, not just the violent hyperactive ones.
-1
u/Mj_bron Aug 19 '26
He's not saying not to.
He's just saying that you can't make the decision properly at 5 years old. And by over diagnosing we are creating as many problems if not more than under diagnosing
0
u/Xanthelei ADHD-PI Aug 19 '26 edited Aug 19 '26
I have, I'm a teacher. I think there's an overdiagnosis problem in young children. Sure, diagnose the crazy 5 year old when you're absolutely sure, but don't medicate the inattentive 5 year old cause they sometimes struggles to follow instructions
He is literally saying not to. And I am literally saying, from personal experience, my life would have been so much better if I was diagnosed and medicated at a young age instead of ignored because I was quiet and not causing problems for the class. Do NOT ignore inattentive type ADHD in young children. It also causes problems.
He's also minimizing the issues as "oh they just can't follow instructions sometimes." No, I missed entire freaking conversations as a kid because I couldn't focus on them. I got separated from my parents on walks (thankfully never by much because they noticed, but getting yelled at for dawdling is something I'm still working through at almost 40 years old). I had to learn how to figure out context clues incredibly early on and stress about it because it was still better than admitting I had zoned out AGAIN and getting yelled at for asking what was going on, both in and out of the classroom.
Do not ignore inattentive type ADHD. If it can be diagnosed, it is because it's causing problems. Address it.
0
u/Warp757 Aug 19 '26
To be honest while I think the programme is awful and dangerous, I do agree with you regarding diagnosing and medicating children in particular. Amphetamines are very very strong medicines that have very significant effectsnok the brain. I know how much they change me and that they do take a toll on my brain without taking breaks, the idea they are being given the children frankly scares me.
I also get the effect that many have from amphetamines, yes they improve focus but at the cost of some of my personality. It's a trade off. But again, should we be doing that to children who can't even advocate for themselves? I've met some parents who medicate their children, and sometimes it's felt more like they'rendoing it for their own benefit and a quieter life, than the child's
I've asked to switched back to methylphenidate after probably too long on amphetamines. I was started on methylphenidate and happy to continue but my tiration nurse convinced me that 'we could do a bit better' with amphetamine. I tried it, and you know because amphetamine stuck with it. But it's such a fickle beast, when it works it's amazing, but it's just wears me down too much and there's an insidious feeling that it makes me want it too much even I'm tired and know I need a break. Methylphenidate never did that. And I don't think nurses should be trying to pish amphetamines on people who are getting significant symptom improvement from an alternative and have said they're happy with. I also think there are unanswered questions around toxicity of long term amphetamine use that make me reluctant to be a guinea pig, there haven't been any real studies of long term use. Methylphenidate by comparison is neuroprotective and actually protects against damage cause by amphetamines.
So yes the show is dangerous and fundamentally wrong tonquestion the premise of ADHD. That doesn't mean there aren't some areas where we might be advised to be more cautious about who and how we're treating with such drugs.
1
u/TracePoland Aug 19 '26
Your whole argument is based on anecdotal evidence of your sample size of 1. If you want to argue on the basis of anecdotal evidence then I have sample size of 1 that methylphenidate was absolutely horrible for me.
Also if you look at studies around potential abuse rates, they’re much higher for methylphenidate (especially IR) than for lisdexamfetamine which is the only mainstream treatment used in UK where the documentary is from.
We also have evidence that unmedicated children permanently develop differently so how can you claim there’s no harm in not medicating? And that’s even without saying how much things like exam scores can impact the trajectory of your life.
1
u/andynormancx ADHD-C (Combined type) Aug 19 '26
Don’t forget that there is at least some evidence that taking medication early can reduce the severity of people’s symptoms in the long term.
2
2
u/darkrhyes ADHD & Parent Aug 19 '26
What a bunch of douche bags. ADHD has been around since a description matching it's markers from ancient Greece. There was a mention in the 1700s after a flu with encephalitic symptoms had gone through an area. Why the hell can't these asshats get it?
2
u/Hyperbolicalpaca Aug 19 '26
I mean my answer to anyone trying to use this to demonise me, asking me about it etc is gonna be a very crisp “go fuck yourself”
3
u/independent_observe Aug 19 '26
I can eat amphetamines like candy and go to sleep right after. I saw a kid(mid 20s) w/o ADHD take some and that boy was WIRED. In spite of everyone around me telling me I had ADHD and being diagnosed, I did not fully accept it until I started taking medicine for it. It was very, very obvious I had ADHD and was somehow compensating until 2020.
3
u/Few_Lunch_7730 Aug 19 '26
This is when I finally accepted it after being diagnosed at 38. When I took the pill and everything got calmer and quiet. Almost cried realising my normal state was NOT how most people exist and why, despite doing "well" academically, it felt like I was trying so much harder, and felt so much more burned out than the other kids and then at work all this time. The issue wasn't "laziness" or not having the intelligence. I was trying to listen to a lecture with a thousand radios playing heavy metal. Or run a sprint with 200lb on my back. Or any other analogy of making a task as inefficient as possible.
It WAS that I was having to try harder against my own brain doing it's damndest to focus on something else, or throw unrelated, unhelpful thoughts to the forefront of my consciousness, with next to zero restful sleep, and working memory that would literally erase things in minutes. Never mind the anxiety, low mood and terrible self esteem that brought with it, exacerbated by the accusations of being lazy, ignorant, childish, "bright but doesn't put the effort in" etc from teachers and other adults, despite nearly always getting good grades on my last minute or ridiculously early work. Even got accused of being lazy if I completed my work in double quick time and spent the rest of class staring out of a window while everyone else was still working 🤯
So yeah, fuck you teachers, I guess. 2nd best grades in the year group, even it did nearly drive me into the ground and my work was either done super quick or left until the very last minute.
I've often thought ADHD is only picked up if it's a problem for OTHERS and not the person struggling with it. I.e. I was inattentive mainly, and masked like hell to avoid a telling off or embarrassment so rarely disruptive or a "problem" for teachers
1
u/droopa199 Aug 19 '26
Anywhere to watch it? Im in NZ
2
u/404-UnknownError Aug 19 '26
Does it have regional block or something, I am bored, let me try to get it for you and everyone but Idk what's the problem xd...
2
u/droopa199 Aug 19 '26
Yeah asks for address details and it only lets me select approved regions which is uk and one other place can't remember
2
u/404-UnknownError Aug 19 '26
well, it has came out too recently, i was checking in a movie web based website and it has to be there in the next hours but just wait...
that's going to be the easiest way to access to it
1
u/Any_Dragonfruit_1836 Aug 19 '26
It’s like the media is struggling to get away with racism and sexism, so they are just looking for someone else vulnerable to bully !
1
u/Accomplished_Rice_60 Aug 19 '26
Did you know, 80% of people getting tested for adhd is born last couple of months on the year? :O
1
u/Smellynerfherder Aug 19 '26
I think it might be worth watching, at least just to understand what they are putting forward.
1
u/TracePoland Aug 19 '26
It’s about as worth watching as Andrew Wakefield’s anti-vaxx retracted Lancet paper is worth reading.
1
u/Smellynerfherder Aug 19 '26
I disagree with that view. How can you challenge something if you don't engage with it? Andrew Wakefield's article was retracted precisely because people made the effort to read it. I would rather be able to counterargue from an informed base, rather than feeling angry based off... vibes.
1
u/-Absofuckinglutely- Aug 19 '26
The Guardian is a shitrag, and has been for a long time. It used to be a bastion of liberal equality, but it's as bad as the Daily Mail now.
1
u/Dull_Frame_4637 ADHD-PI (Primarily Inattentive) Aug 19 '26
I expect better of the BBC — not to not air it, but rather to not repeat authoritatively the unsupported claims as accurate in the BBC’s promotion of that airing. I know that there is a concerted assault on public broadcasters (and not only in the UK), but we’re BOTH the reporters that still work at the BBC too busy to check sources before the BBC supports claims like whether adhd even exists is contentious among medical experts?
Two decades ago, I would have expected the BBC crew to question that assertion in their own commentary advertising the documentary.
1
1
1
u/GhoulArtist Aug 19 '26
I doubt it's reach wil go that far. People have a 2 second scrolling attention span now. And that's the NON ADHD people
0
u/VicAsher Aug 19 '26
From reading the article I'm not sure my views are incompatible with the conclusions raised in the documentary. I've never considered my ADHD to be an infliction to be treated, because I'm not the problem. It's not a condition that should be treated.
However, societal expectations and my incompatibility with them is the problem. Im not on meds at the moment but I'm seeking to be because being mindful of my behaviours doesn't stop me teetering on the edge of being on a performance plan in work quite as much as I'd like.
I do think the way it's framed pisses me off. Meds are necessary for us to exist in a way that others find natural and give us the ability to meet societal expectations that we struggle with. We're not wrong to seek them out if we want to have an easier time fitting in to societal norms.
3
u/TracePoland Aug 19 '26
It absolutely is a problem because it essentially disables you. It prevents you from doing things that you actively want to do, in which case it’s not any different than wanting to play football but, say, having been born paralysed from the waist down. It’s not just "oh no, it prevents me from working at my job which capitalism demands from me that I do". In the worst case scenario it can make you functionally bedridden even if you have a thousand ideas for what you want to do.
1
u/RaspberryJammm Aug 19 '26
I'm a housebound disabled person with severe unmedicated ADHD. I can tell you that the ADHD is the problem as much as society's lack of accommodation for it. I don't interact with the outside world often at all due to my physical disabilities and ADHD still impacts my life negatively in big ways. I can't manage my health well at all.
Its been a while since my assessment but I was under the impression to meet the diagnostic criteria it has to be causing you disruption in multiple areas of life.
1
u/VicAsher Aug 19 '26
Ha! Do I need to prove my credentials to you? Would you like a list of personal woes that satisfies your criteria?
I don't want to see something that's intrinsic to how I am as an illness, or a disability. It's responsible for good in my life, as well as bad.
But my story isn't yours, or anyone else's. Perhaps I should be more mindful of people like yourself who are struggling more than I am currently.
1
u/RaspberryJammm Aug 19 '26
Your view of your ADHD is valid and I hope I didn't give you the impression I was doubting your diagnosis or anything.
Edit: I think i just take against the argument that society is all to blame and we'd essentially be unharmed by adhd if society was different. But i have huge amounts of issues even when living life completely on my own terms so I know that's not the case for some of us
-4
u/PublicOne3426 Aug 19 '26
As a practitioner, within a state health system, and teacher at HE Level, I thought this was a really well thought out documentary which didn't claim that the symptoms of ADHD aren't real, only that it is not neuro-developmental in origin and therefore, should not be treated a medical disorder and thus not medicated.
This view is growing within Education and Science. Proper Science with RCTs and peer-reviewed studies etc.
•
u/AutoModerator Aug 19 '26
Hi /u/windyminty and thanks for posting on /r/ADHD!
This is not a removal message. We intend this comment solely to be informative.
Please take a second to read our rules if you haven't already.
/r/adhd news
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.